The Slapping Debate.

simu

Silverharp2 wrote: »

It seemed like the vid was more about child abuse or beatings with sticks or straps.

Yes, it's about violent parenting plus a whole host of other adverse situations.

Interesting stuff all the same.

cynder

ACE = Adverse Child Experiences

1. Recurrent physical abuse/Recurrent emotional abuse
2. Contact sexual abuse
3. An alcohol and/or drug abuser in the family
4. An incarcerated household member
5. Someone who is chronically depressed in the family
6. mentally ill, institutionalized, or suicidal
7. Mother is treated violently
8. One or no parents
9. Emotional or physical neglect



physical abuse is only mentioned in 1 so the whole study is not about beating a kid with a stick, its about the whole life of a child, by the way i tick 8 boxes.

I don't think a smack on the bum does a kid any harm, in fact there are a few out there in need of a boot up the arse.

Nevyn

simplistic2 civil posting and posting in a manner which is not personal abuse is expected in this forum.

grindelwald could you edit you post please to make it readable the majority of those codes just don't work,
and by choosing black which is already the default you render your post invisible to those who use a dark back ground skin, thanks.

cynder

Thaedydal wrote: »

grindelwald could you edit you post please to make it readable the majority of those codes just don't work,
and by choosing black which is already the default you render your post invisible to those who use a dark back ground skin, thanks.

Sorry it went a bit mad there, it looks ok now on my screen.

simplistic2

grindelwald wrote: »

ACE = Adverse Child Experiences

1. Recurrent physical abuse/Recurrent emotional abuse
2. Contact sexual abuse
3. An alcohol and/or drug abuser in the family
4. An incarcerated household member
5. Someone who is chronically depressed in the family
6. mentally ill, institutionalized, or suicidal
7. Mother is treated violently
8. One or no parents
9. Emotional or physical neglect



physical abuse is only mentioned in 1 so the whole study is not about beating a kid with a stick, its about the whole life of a child, by the way i tick 8 boxes.

I don't think a smack on the bum does a kid any harm, in fact there are a few out there in need of a boot up the arse.

How terrible Im very sorry to hear you had to go through that. How evil people in this world can be. I hope life is better for you now.

Nevyn

Thanks grindelwald

I have merged the newest thread on this topic into the mega slapping debate thread.
This is a perennial argument and I would please ask the people remain civil, stay on topic and keep in mind the forum and site rules.

cynder

simplistic2 wrote: »

How terrible Im very sorry to hear you had to go through that. How evil people in this world can be. I hope life is better for you now.

The only reason i experienced what i did was because my dad had even worse done to him (his parents were evil). My dad realised that he wasn't a great dad and apologised about 8 years ago (something his parents never did, they even denied they were wrong doing it). I think it helped me move on when he was sorry for how he treated us as kids, i was well grown up by then and had a child of my own, but it helped.


I don't blame my dad it's his parents i blame. But I'm over it, i got a great life now. I suppose my experiences have made me look at things differently from others.

If you took a good look at the you tube video that you posted my dad would have been in there, he ended up with drink/drugs/mental problems and died at age 55 (last year) he took the full effects of his abuse and they ate away at him, he would have ticked only 5 boxes.

cbyrd

I think to beat a child is unforgivable..

however, your 2 year old child is about to put herslf in danger, i think a short sharp smack on the bum is the only way to communicate 'thats not good' you cannot reason in a split second with a little person who has no communication skills.
To slap a child that can understand and express themselves, well it shouldn't be necessary, yes i got smacked as a child, but, i had no psp or nintendo or phone to do without for a few hours.. i had hand me down toys that never lived up to the games that came out of my head..
regardless of legal or not you cannot smack an adult thats cheeky or rude or a bully..should we not teach our kids that aggressive behaviour doesn't help,
what do you say to your child when they slap another child??
there are always exceptions,people for whom violence is the norm
this is not my way of living so i do not smack my kids (other than that one time my 2 year old nearly ran headfirst into the fire and i was more upset than she was:eek:)
its just my opinion..;)

Ickle Magoo

cbyrd wrote: »

...however, your 2 year old child is about to put herslf in danger..

Well, the way I look at it my kids can't put themselves in danger - they can only be in danger thru my actions or lack there of...all small kids will want to explore the world around them but that they have the opportunity to run in front of traffic or climb at windows is my fault, not theirs and so I wouldn't hit a child because of a situation I have caused or allowed.

DeVore

But the child learns little there.


And my issue isnt with my own kids (I dont have any), its with having to deal with other peoples kids who have grown up rarely hearing the word "no" and no respect for anyone else because .... why should they.

DeV.

Ickle Magoo

They learn plenty, they just aren't punished for parental negligence. I try to ensure they are never in a position they could be in danger while continually telling them what to watch out for and why. Sure slapping is a short, sharp shock but it's absolutely possible to get the same message across without smacking.

I hate bratty kids as much as next person. I often stand with one child in each hand, they stand politely, saying please and thank you to whomever is serving us while watching someone else's child yelling and demanding and getting a whack for their efforts - it doesn't follow that smacking = good behaviour any more than no smacking = no discipline.

cbyrd

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Well, the way I look at it my kids can't put themselves in danger - they can only be in danger thru my actions or lack there of...all small kids will want to explore the world around them but that they have the opportunity to run in front of traffic or climb at windows is my fault, not theirs and so I wouldn't hit a child because of a situation I have caused or allowed.

i resent the implication that i would deliberately put my child in danger
if you had read on in my post it was a split second she ran across the room in her nana's front room when the fire was lit, she was about 22 months old at the time and as i said i got more of a fright than she did. my kids say please and thank you and i've often been complimented on their good behaviour in public. kids often put themselves in danger through no fault of the parent.. i cannot hold their hands 24 hours a day:(

Ickle Magoo

cbyrd wrote: »

i resent the implication that i would deliberately put my child in danger
if you had read on in my post it was a split second she ran across the room in her nana's front room when the fire was lit, she was about 22 months old at the time and as i said i got more of a fright than she did. my kids say please and thank you and i've often been complimented on their good behaviour in public. kids often put themselves in danger through no fault of the parent.. i cannot hold their hands 24 hours a day:(

I don't think I was implying you were deliberately puting your child in danger. At least, I certainly wasn't trying to.

I know it's impossible to watch a child 24/7 but if my child is not in a safe environment then that isn't my child's fault. I don't blame a parent for doing whatever they can to stop their child hurting themselves, I'd throw my kid off a road in a second if I thought it would stop a car hitting them - my point was I wouldn't punish my small child for being in a dangerous place because I view the fact that they are in a potentially hazardous situation as my fault, not theirs.

cynder

No place on earth is a safe place (unless they are locked in a padded cell), danger is everywhere, one of the most dangerous places is the kitchen.


Even when you think you have baby proofed everything there are still wet slippy floors, gas ovens, boiling kettles, toasters, blind cords, windows, doors, cleaning chemicals (cif, bleach, furniture polish, fly killer, deodorants), hot water (in tap), things cooking on the oven, tvs ( many have fallen on to kids and killed them), electrical sockets, radiators, up stairs windows, bunk beds, stairs, cupboards (some kids clime to the top of them) even a dressing gown hanging up could kill them if the cord gets wrapped round their necks, open fires, gas fires, fridge freezers (our lad nearly pulled ours down on top of himself) even a bed ( there was a case a few years ago where i live where the 3 year old fell of the bed and broke his neck)THE HOME can be a very dangerous place.

My fella keeps on taking his seat-belt off in the car (ever since he was 20 months) he is now 3 and NO does not work, as soon as i stop the car, re-do his seat-belt and as soon as i start driving he lets it of again. also he now like opening the window -

open window, seat-belt off, i don't want to think about it. what can i do to stop him? reason? that doesn't work, he is wait listed for a full asd assessment and is speech and comprehension delayed. Bribe? that doesnt work either. reward? no that doesnt work (doesnt comperhend if ). i dont want help with this issue. im using it as an example, so please dont start telling what i should and shouldnt do with my lad, he has a team working with him in the early intervention centre.

walshb

Personally I don't know how an adult can raise its hand to strike a small child and assault the small child. Now, I am fully aware that children can work you up, but resorting to assault (and in the adult world it is assault if you strike another person) is a sign of break down and failure.

Then there is the whole, "What is a slap"?

I wouldn't be too concerned with a small tap on the hand or bum, but when I see an
adult forcibly striking a child on his/her, arms or legs or bum it really irks me.

I think we all know what a small tap is, something that won't cause pain but will tell
the child that they are misbehaving. And I think we all can tell when an adult is putting
force into their strike and terror into their child.

Deliverance

When the child slaps you back then you as a parent will truely have learned what your slap has taught them.

axel rose

My son headbutted me today. (In his defence he is 2 and wanted to run out onto the road, so I picked him up). Does that mean that I headbutt him on a regular basis?

He slaps me too. Is that an indication that I slap him? (He also slaps the ground, the wall, the table-anything that he hits off really..............)





(No, I havent hit or nutted the child (yet) although he drives me to it regularly)

we'llallhavetea_old

Deliverance wrote: »

When the child slaps you back then you as a parent will truely have learned what your slap has taught them.

axel rose wrote: »

My son headbutted me today. (In his defence he is 2 and wanted to run out onto the road, so I picked him up). Does that mean that I headbutt him on a regular basis?

He slaps me too. Is that an indication that I slap him? (He also slaps the ground, the wall, the table-anything that he hits off really..............)





(No, I havent hit or nutted the child (yet) although he drives me to it regularly)

deliverence meant that if you hit your child and the child starts hitting you back that you have taught them that its ok.

not that if a child hits you, they have learned it from you.

my daughter went through that phase of slapping when she was 1 - 1 1/2 yrs old and i didn't slap her, she was taught that it was bold.

axel rose

I hear your point but there is a whole world of difference between a slap and a beating ( or even a 'hit').

we'llallhavetea_old

axel rose wrote: »

I hear your point but there is a whole world of difference between a slap and a beating ( or even a 'hit').

yep, i know.

axel rose

(leans across the great divide, takes off cap and reaches out to shakes hands )

we'llallhavetea_old

axel rose wrote: »

(leans across the great divide, takes off cap and reaches out to shakes hands )

*shakes hand*

i don't think slapping / hitting / beating / physical pain, is right.

axel rose

dude, I was just shaking your hand.

headbutting is not ladylike

we'llallhavetea_old

axel rose wrote: »

dude, I was just shaking your hand.

headbutting is not ladylike

mwahaha! i'm not very ladylike at the best of times

sorry bout the head..

:pac:

axel rose

I hear ya, honestly if there is an awkward way to do something- I'll figure it out! I'm blaming it on the result of too many head butts

cbyrd

my son headbutted me today too... i forgave him... reluctantly.. as he's only 18 weeks old and learning to hold up his head:D

I do remember my youngest girl biting my eldest girl when they were 2 and 5 (approx..) she actually bled her and i bit the youngest girl... i hang my head in shame now but at the time i think the shouting and crying and shock that she would do something that bad unprovoked.. i didn't actually bite her too hard just enough for her to realise how it hurts... no excuse i know

she never bit anyone again.. but i wonder what i could have said to her that would have got the point across aswell?? i'm not in the habit of biting my kids or slapping them.. i think a longer more drawn out punishment is better now that they're older... like hoovering and putting them on dishwasher duty for a week.. and it gets me out of doing it:D

I had a discussion with my dad today about this and he remembers every slap he doled out. his one big regret is that he listened to my grandmother so much and it was a point that was brought up in the programme 'Home' on RTE today,

He reckons that parents were actually afraid that if they didn't disipline they're kids they would run wild and end up hooligans..!!
He now believes that slapping doesn't achieve anything other than make the child mad at you and plot they're revenge.. nursing homes and things popped into his head!:D it was funny watching him talk about it while he was playing games with the headbutting 18 week old..

DeVore

There were three of us kids in my family. Our names should have been Washer Drier and Putteraway. It wasnt because we were bold, it was because in a functioning household everyone does their chores and learns that it all breaks down otherwise.

Mine was putting the bins out and I hated it on freezing cold winter nights. its called a "chore" for a reason.

funnily enough I didnt really rebel against the household because I was kind of invested in it.

I was never spanked though I was definitely threatened meaningfully with it and left in no doubt it was an option.

DeV.

Rabidlamb

1st offence: Warning, cease before count of 3.
2nd Offence: Naughty step.
3rd Offence: Denial of treats.
4th Offence: Smack on back of hand or bum.
5th Offence: Bedroom for the rest of the night.

Since we've introduced this code we've noticed a huge improvement in our 3 year olds behavior.
Tantrums have almost ceased & evening time is now a joy.

DeVore

my sister has two absolutely mad kids, I love them dearly but you would have to be on your toes for them!!

They are both hugely headstrong like their mother sometimes and the younger is worse then the elder (they are 7 and 5 now).

She has an absolutely amazing trick..... if the kids are squabbling over a toy they and the toy get put in the bedroom and neither of them can come out until they have come to a conclusion and an agreement about who gets the toy when.

I thought to myself "well, thats one less niece I have to buy gifts for next xmas!" but to my astonishment they came out with a plan that would shame the UN. Really quite amazingly fair and balance, if intricate solutions that they have worked out between them (in order for both to be released). Stuff like "she can have it monday wednesday friday, I get it tuesday thursday and sat and every second Sunday we swap".


I thought to myself, I've worked with people in offices who werent able to do that.

DeV.

Nevyn

It is good when they can work things out like that but, those are skills she would have had to teach them first. We have a check list for such things, solutions have to be safe, fair and lead to good feelings for everyone.