The Slapping Debate.

TheNog

I was smacked as a child and so were all my friends. It didn't do any harm to us at all. Of course there were kids who abused by their parents in the form a beating. Children back in the 70's and 80's generally had respect for their elders and espeically those in authority.

I see in my job kids who do not have respect for anyone including themselves and this includes kids from good homes. It is getting increasingly difficult to show these kids what they are doing is wrong 'cos they just don't care.

In regards to my own two kids, I do smack them now and then but it is a rarity. I don't like hitting them nor do I like to see them cry but I am doing it for their own good in the long run.

Current Irish law provides for reasonable chastisement of a child but this is fairly broad and left to personal opinion.

daiixi

No I don't think it's an acceptable form of punishment these days but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have its place. Smacking never did us any harm and I very much doubt it would harm any children I may have in the future but I don't think it's the answer to every childhood problem.

luckat

I wouldn't smack an adult. I wouldn't smack a child.

Carrigart Exile

luckat wrote:

I wouldn't smack an adult. I wouldn't smack a child.

By the same token you wouldn't put a child in jail for discharging a gun at another person and killing them, but you would an adult. We accept children are not adult responsible yet we wish to give them adult rights, that in my opinion is where we have a disconnect. I've smacked my son twice (he's now 18) and my daughter once. In all 3 ocassions they were recklessly endangering themselves despite repeated warnings and other forms of chastisement.

luckat

Many studies of the effects of smacking show that it's ineffective in changing behaviour.

Crea

I have done it and I have to agree with Luckat that it really didn't have the desired effect. In some cases I was slapped back and where do you go from there?
Also, you don't have a leg to stand on when child 1 is thumping lumps out of child 2 and you're trying to explain that hitting is bold.
We were not smacked as children except in extreme situations as set out by Carrigart Exile and I can tell you that it definitely worked. We felt worse about driving our parents to do it rather than the slapping itself.

Beruthiel

smacking = lazy parenting.

As for it doing no harm. All it teaches you is not to get caught.
I lived in fear of my mother and would quite happily have danced on her grave right up into my late teens.
You don't need to do that to any child, they can be punished without ever having a hand laid on them. In the long term, it's much more effective. Your child ends up respecting you instead of wishing you were never born.

dame

I would smack if the child was doing something dangerous and continuing to do it despite warnings or punishments. A smack might just give the shock they need to stand still for a minute and realise that they can't run at the end of a pier for example. I would rather see a child stand crying in shock for a minute than be fished out of the sea in shock. Having said that, so far my daughter hasn't needed a slap. She's still small enough to be caught by the hand and held onto before she runs herself into that kind of danger.

daiixi

Beruthiel wrote:

As for it doing no harm. All it teaches you is not to get caught.

Very true and I became quite good at not getting caught. However when I was 16/17 I was grounded for skipping school. My dad asked if I knew why I was being grounded and I answered "because I skipped school?" his reply was "no, because you were dumb enough to get caught". Fab parenting dad!

Carrigart Exile

dame wrote:

I would smack if the child was doing something dangerous and continuing to do it despite warnings or punishments. A smack might just give the shock they need to stand still for a minute and realise that they can't run at the end of a pier for example. I would rather see a child stand crying in shock for a minute than be fished out of the sea in shock. Having said that, so far my daughter hasn't needed a slap. She's still small enough to be caught by the hand and held onto before she runs herself into that kind of danger.

With my son it was sticking his fingers in electric sockets:eek:

crosstownk

Smacking to me is not the right way to handle things. It simply means that the child will not do as he/she is told not to out of fear of being smacked. Better to teach them the reasoning between right and wrong rather than posing the threat of being smacked. I appreciate that this may be easier said than done, but smacking can lead to resentment which can result in a downward spiral.

loismustdie

in hindsight i was a model child, but didn't realise it at the time, or get treated like it. then again maybe all our generation now. more than being slapped i didnt want to be given out to or annoy my parents. but the obe thing i remember is never associating parents slapping with sibling or peer violence, i always thought parents were allowed.

i also think i grew up very well and my parents are great people and so always presumed a would slap for punishment too but am now learning there are other more effective ways. from your post the general message seems to be that slapping is gone. thanks for the input

unreggd

I think "if necessary" in the poll is a bit stupid

If its ever necessary for you to hit your child because you can't discilpine them with talk, you have some parenting problems

li

unreggd wrote:

I think "if necessary" in the poll is a bit stupid

If its ever necessary for you to hit your child because you can't discilpine them with talk, you have some parenting problems

I always said I'd never slap my children either but it's different when you have a child. My daughter is 2 now and 3 months ago she was jumping up and down on the bed constantly. I warned her about 20 times not to jump on the bed because she'll fall and hurt herself. I took her down off the bed about 100 times but up she'd get again as soon as my back was turned.
In the end she did fall off the bed and ended up in hospital with a broken arm.
Now as soon as we got home from the hospital she got straight back up on the bed to jump again, well needless to say she got a slap(a tap on the hand)and shouted at and she wasn't long about getting down.
She did cry for about two minutes, but I think she'd rather that over a broken arm.
How can you properly disapline a 20 month old with talk??

Concorde

Beruthiel wrote:

smacking = lazy parenting.

As for it doing no harm. All it teaches you is not to get caught.
I lived in fear of my mother and would quite happily have danced on her grave right up into my late teens.
You don't need to do that to any child, they can be punished without ever having a hand laid on them. In the long term, it's much more effective. Your child ends up respecting you instead of wishing you were never born.

My parents used slapping as a form of discipline on my brothers and I. We were given repeated warnings before we got slapped. We were well behaved as a result. We did not live in fear of our parents, and we very much loved and respected them. We knew we were very much loved too. We grew up into fine upstanding citizens. Our parents were very good to us over the years - e.g., when I was a student they made sure I always had adequate funds (no, I didn't spend it on cigarettes and alcohol), allowed us to live with them rent free while trying to save up for houses/weddings (I bought my own food, my brothers didn't) - it's these lovely times that enter our minds when we think about them, never the fact we were smacked. This lovely life was brought to an abrupt end when my loving, adorable parents were both diagnosed with terminal cancer and both died within 5 months.

We did not dance on their grave, Beruthiel.

What scares me is how their actions might cause somebody to report them to social services in this day and age - if this had happened, I would be very angry with the person who reported them, not my parents.

luckat

I've been thinking about this argument that smacking is all right if a child is doing something that endangers him.

Leaving out for the moment the studies that show that it doesn't work, I'm wondering about the extension of this logic.

Is it right, then, to slap an old person who absent-mindedly steps out on to the road? After all, it'll teach him a sharp lesson and he won't do it again.

And what about accountants who make mistakes that endanger their company: should they be spanked? They're endangering not just their own job but those of others.

run_Forrest_run

simu wrote:

I'm never going to do it. I remember my own mother doing it the odd time when I was a kid and I think, looking back, she could have handeled those situations differently.

yes, hindsight is a great thing!

Beelzebub

I am speaking as a non-parent.
I think that bringing up a child must be the most difficult job in the world today.
And being a teacher must be a close second.
I am against violence of all types.
One of my most enduring memories is of corporal punisment.
I think that was so wrong. Learning through fear - now that's a crazy concept.
Though somehow when my parents smacked me it was different.
It seems that today that a lot of parents are not in control of their children and that the children are in charge - now that's not right either.
I am not saying they should smack them but they need to exert control over them when necessary.

Concorde

luckat wrote:

Leaving out for the moment the studies that show that it doesn't work, I'm wondering about the extension of this logic.

Is it right, then, to slap an old person who absent-mindedly steps out on to the road? After all, it'll teach him a sharp lesson and he won't do it again.

And what about accountants who make mistakes that endanger their company: should they be spanked? They're endangering not just their own job but those of others.

When I was small, I ran out onto the street and narrowly missed being killed. My shaky mother grabbed me and gave me a good talking to, explained why I shouldn't have done it. Dad talked to me about it that evening, about how upset they were and I promised I'd never do it again. Did it again, again got a good talking to. Did it a third time, this time onto a main road and frightened the living daylights out of my father that he gave me a slap on the arse. Result - I never did it again.
The old person is different- they've already been mentored and disciplined by their parents and know right from wrong. An adult absent-mindedly stepping out on the road is different from a child deliberately running out not knowing the dangers.
The poor accountant faces disciplinary action, loos of job and loss of income - I think he'd rather be spanked!

ROCKMAN

Five years ago my partner and i would have being of the no smacking school of thought....

But now that my oldest lad is four and a typical four year old nutter. Our opinions has changed slightly .On rare occasion and i mean very rare we find ourselves
have to use "slapping" as a last resort..

My point been that parenthood is the toughest job in the world with on black or white answers their is a lot of grey areas,

walshb

Why is it that it is an offence for any adult to lay a hand on any other adult, yet it's quite acceptable for an adult to smack a child or whack a child or even threaten to do so. If anything it should be more a crime to do this to a child who really has no chance to defend itself. I think it should be outright banned. Studies have shown that it is not necessary as a form of discipline and that there are many other ways to discipline a child without resorting to VIOLENCE. How any grown man or woman would even contemplate smacking a child bewilders me?

Concorde

walshb wrote:

Why is it that it is an offence for any adult to lay a hand on any other adult, yet it's quite acceptable for an adult to smack a child or whack a child or even threaten to do so. If anything it should be more a crime to do this to a child who really has no chance to defend itself. I think it should be outright banned. Studies have shown that it is not necessary as a form of discipline and that there are many other ways to discipline a child without resorting to VIOLENCE. How any grown man or woman would even contemplate smacking a child bewilders me?

If you re-read my last post, it is clear that sometimes a parent is faced with 2 choices - do they want a protected child or a corpse. Once a corpse, there's no going back.
There's NO way smacking as a last resort should be banned. It would have distressed me if my parents were criminalised, and I would have DESPISED the person who reported them. In this day and age, parents spend little enough time with their children. This time would be lessened if they were to spend time in prison. And the loss of income leads to the children living in poverty - is that what you want? And there would be a lot of very disturbed children as a result of spending time in foster care.
My siblings and I are all lovely, decent, kind people without any disposition for violence and we are greatful for all our lovely parents (RIP) did for us.

6th

I introduced a 'bold corner' at about 14 months, never have to smack my child and never would.

People generally only smack their kids out of frustration, so its when the parent 'loses control' that they do it. I'm not saying that the parent has gone crazy but they are definately acting outside of their normal state of mind.

When people say it never did them any harm and that when smacking was common things were bettter maybe we should ignore those emails about how great and free it was growing up and look at the the numbers of abusers we have now days and the number of victims or sexual and phsyical abuse we have coming out of the woodwork from the good old days.

6th

Walshb is dead right, there is always a better way and anyone who was hit as a child and is fine now is lucky.

Smacking is lazy parenting.

Pherekydes

luckat wrote:

Is it right, then, to slap an old person who absent-mindedly steps out on to the road? After all, it'll teach him a sharp lesson and he won't do it again.

If the absent mindedness is due to the advance of senility or some other brain degenerating disease, then it's highly probable that the old dear won't learn from anything. It's silly to equate old people with young.

luckat wrote:

And what about accountants who make mistakes that endanger their company: should they be spanked? They're endangering not just their own job but those of others.

Spanked? No. Punched and kicked, maybe.

Yes, I was smacked as a child, and yes, I smack mine, but what children crave most of all from their parents is consistency. Lax parenting is worse than smacking and will eventually lead the child to be in contempt of the parent(s).

nesf

Slow coach wrote:

Yes, I was smacked as a child, and yes, I smack mine, but what children crave most of all from their parents is consistency. Lax parenting is worse than smacking and will eventually lead the child to be in contempt of the parent(s).

I agree actually. Consistency is possibly the most important aspect of parenting. I got smacked very rarely and for very specific things (i.e. I had really done something very dangerous, generally to one of my siblings or cousins or something).

I was never hit randomly, or for anything minor. I think if a parent is randomly slapping a child where it's not attached to a specific "level" of bad behaviour, then it's going to be very ineffective. If it's a unique punishment for specific breaches of the rules though, then it is more effective.

Of course, the problem would be that what I consider ok as a slap might seem to another person as giving them the right to beat or bruise their child, which is a whole other issue entirely but unfortunately connected to this. I don't see anything wrong with consistent and light (i.e. nothing more than a sting) slaps. The problem is that it's hard to legislate for this and what one person would consider abuse another might take little notice of etc.

Concorde

6th wrote:

When people say it never did them any harm and that when smacking was common things were bettter maybe we should ignore those emails about how great and free it was growing up and look at the the numbers of abusers we have now days and the number of victims or sexual and phsyical abuse we have coming out of the woodwork from the good old days.

We are not talking abot physical or sexual abuse here, it's using a slap as a controlled form of discipline.
Every child is different, some respond to Supernanny's"naughty step" and toy confiscation, or by just being sent to their room, but others don't.

6th

'Others don't"? .... if you give up to soon it wont work but hitting just works straight off doesnt it? .... nice and quick

Why is the Parent & Child the only relationship in the world that people seem to think violence (and thats what it is - no question) is ok?

Smacking is lazy and unnessecery.

RainyDay

Concorde wrote:

We are not talking abot physical or sexual abuse here, it's using a slap as a controlled form of discipline.
Every child is different, some respond to Supernanny's"naughty step" and toy confiscation, or by just being sent to their room, but others don't.

What do you when the child stops responding to a slap? Where do you go from there?

Why is it OK to hit a child, but not an adult?

nesf

6th wrote:

'Others don't"? .... if you give up to soon it wont work but hitting just works straight off doesnt it? .... nice and quick

Why is the Parent & Child the only relationship in the world that people seem to think violence (and thats what it is - no question) is ok?

Smacking is lazy and unnessecery.

Is it violence or physical chastisement, there is a difference you know. Violence could also be extended to cover physically restraining a toddler in a less than "walking on eggshells" fashion if you want it to.