How much infulence do the IRA council have over Sinn Fein?

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

I dont think it would be fair to ask you any particulars on that,but they didnt discuss it at all?The closed sessions must have only went on for 10 minutes?
I only brought it up by the way to clarify the situation for fta69.

the closed session lasted about 30 minutes in all but that would be from the time the media was kicked out to the time the doors opened again
the address from the IRA lasted about 10 maybe 15 minutes

there was no discussion no questions from the floor

the reason the session was closed was because the person reading the statement could be charged with membership of an illegal organisation

the statements themselve were very straight forward as dub in glasgow said and very similar to IRA statement issued at the new year, easter, hunger strike commerations etc and published in an phoblacht
the IRA did not reveal any secrets or what their intentions were or anything like that

true

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The statement would review the year gone and would finish with a list of fallen IRA volunteers since the laast AF.

What about a list of the fallen who were not volunteers?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

. It provided a call to republicans to redouble their events for the following year. I think it also gave the opportunity for other liberation movements to offer their support.

Redouble their efforts = kill and maim and terrify and bereave twice as many people. Nice people.
Other "liberation" movements : FARC ? Basque terrorists ? Who ?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

There were no Q&A sessions about the statement.

It would be a brave person to ask an awkward question in all that company I'd say. More foolish than brave I would say. Did they ever invite relatives of their victims to make a contribution ?

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

I never said that what i did say was that if an IRA member was inclined to join a political party in all likelyhood they would join sinn fein
I also said if an IRA member was inclined to help out a political party at election time then presumably Sinn Fein wi#ould be the party he would canvass for put up posters etc

So the gist is, you agree with me

that is not the same as saying most if not all IRA members are sinn fein members
in fact i think it is well known that during the armed struggle IRA members were largely discouraged from joining sinn fein as membership of sinn fein would only draw attention to a person
t

Actually if you read Mc Cann's book post a prison sentence he was actively encouraged to join and participate in the local branch.

Also we're ten years into the cease fire it's not a leap of faith that IRA members are involved in Sinn Fein now.

And its a logical assumption that the have importance in the movement by weight of their commitment a certain IRA old boys network, etc...

And it's not a huge leap into the unknown that these delegates would vote alongside their former paramilitary comrades. FTA would have have believe that once the balacalva is off they become different people rational democratic enthusatisic believers in democratic principles. He ignores the mindset and psychological burden putting them on at first.

Theres no reason to doubt that the IRA are promentent and active in Sinn Fein on a grassroots level, and have an overt presence which can affect policy, candiates, and party philosophy.

FTA69 wrote:

The media is not an accurate source of information on the Republican Movement it never has been, one only has to look at the volume of lies published over the years in order to see that.

So everything anyone else says about the republican movement is wrong, everything the republican movement says about itself is true. Is Animal Farm on the leaving cert this year?

FTA69 wrote:

Because the idea does not make sense, there are no contentious issues between the two organisations .

Really cause I could have sworn there are

LIKE OVER PUNISHMENT BEATING!!!!!!!!

Child you're out of your league, go back to the shallow end.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

So the gist is, you agree with me
.

no you do have the ability to read don't you

i have no idea wether it is most some or all merely that if they were joining a party i would presume it would be sinn fein

secondly even if they were all members of sinn fein the estimated membership of the IRA is only hundreds there are far more people in sinn fein who are not and never have been IRA volunteers even micheal mcdowell says that at least 96% of sinn fein members have no connection with the IRA

now can you retract the notion that i said most ira volunteers are in sinn fein

mycroft wrote:

Actually if you read Mc Cann's book post a prison sentence he was actively encouraged to join and participate in the local branch.
.

after a prison sentence well you would already have drawn the spotlight on yourself if you had been in prison I was referring to people who were joining the IRA and had no arrests or convictions



.[/QUOTE]

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

no you do have the ability to read don't you

i have no idea wether it is most some or all merely that if they were joining a party i would presume it would be sinn fein

secondly even if they were all members of sinn fein the estimated membership of the IRA is only hundreds there are far more people in sinn fein who are not and never have been IRA volunteers even micheal mcdowell says that at least 96% of sinn fein members have no connection with the IRA

But because of the fact that they were commited to movement at such a level they they were willing to die and kill for it, that they therefore aren't the kind that would drop out of a evenings campaigning for a candiate or a meeting cause the weather was a lil off. We can assume because of their prior commitment, they'll play a more than minor role in the party. Combined with a certain hero worship deferment from the grunts, means they'll have a position of importance.

now can you retract the notion that i said most ira volunteers are in sinn fein

So what the rest of the are in the DUP? Lets face facts you said what party would IRA members campaign for? The implication being all IRA men are in Sinn Fein

after a prison sentence well you would already have drawn the spotlight on yourself if you had been in prison I was referring to people who were joining the IRA and had no arrests or convictions

Mc Cann was engaged in IRA activity after his Sinn Fein involvment you're spliting hairs now. And once again it's been ten years since the cease fire why wouldn't they be involved in SF now and why wouldn't the IRA council and the IRA members have a level of infulence within Sinn Fein?

Out of curiousity cedbru, would if this be proven, not the murder of Mc Carthy and the IRA cover-up, and not the alledged bankrobbery and half a dozen other crimes, etc.... Would the fact that if the IRA had a weighty infulence on SF decision making infulence whether you vote for 'em?

Ok guys-lighten up a little
Mycroft could you point to the exact post where cdebru said most IRA members are in Sinn Féin.
Because if its not there, you are going to have to clarify that he did not say it or that you mis understood him.
I must request that you do whichever is appropriate

I do recall somebody here saying (probably cdebru) and I paraphrase that the party IRA members are most likely to support are SF.
Thats not the same as saying most IRA members are in SF.
One could have that opinion, but how could one know it as a fact and unless cdebru is an IRA member and I'm presuming he isnt, then it's unlikely he has the information to even make the statement you are attributing to him.

mycroft

Earthman wrote:

Ok guys-lighten up a little
Mycroft could you point to the exact post where cdebru said most IRA members are in Sinn Féin.
Because if its not there, you are going to have to clarify that he did not say it or that you mis understood him.
I must request that you do whichever is appropriate

I do recall somebody here saying (probably cdebru) and I paraphrase that the party IRA members are most likely to support are SF.
Thats not the same as saying most IRA members are in SF.
One could have that opinion, but how could one know it as a fact and unless cdebru is an IRA member and I'm presuming he isnt, then it's unlikely he has the information to even make the statement you are attributing to him.

from here

cdebru wrote:

apart from that

shock horror IRA members support sinn fein

what ****ing political party did you think they would support

if they were found in a van that they had borrowed from a PD election worker or if enda kennys posters were in the van that would be shocking

RTEs attempts to sensationalise some of the stuff in the van was laughable so they had two miirors in the van
and most shocking of all a baseball cap with the Hblocks written on it

and lets not forget the clincher a poster of o'snodaigh and gerry adams( anti bin charge one)

can someone anyone explain the significance of any of those items


the van belonged to someone who was an election worker for sinn fein and it had sinn fein posters in it and plastic ties for putting the posters up

the only things of relevance to the case are the balaclavas the garda jacket the taser
and the baseball bat etc

posters have nothing to do with it nor do mirrors from castlereagh or baseball caps with hblock written on them

from here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=228316&page=1&pp=20

I think the authors obvious sarcastic tone clearly implies that to his mind that IRA members support and are members of Sinn Fein. And we'd be idiots to think otherwise.

I don't think its fair for cdebru to use language so sarcastic that Robert Smith would punch him if he was on the mary whitehouse experience, and then say, "I never said that" The tone of his response is "oh shock horror IRA members in Sinn Fein supporter scandal" which to me would imply that to his mind it's obvious that IRA members are involved in Sinn Fein to a serious degree.

If he now wants to quantify this piece of sarcasm it's fine, I'd like him to quanitify if he believes that IRA are active on every level of SF, and if this is the case, whether it'll change his voting, while he's at it.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

So what the rest of the are in the DUP??

they do not have to be members of any political party

mycroft wrote:

Lets face facts you said what party would IRA members campaign for??

campaigning for a party and membership of a party are completely different things
there are thousands of people who campaign at election time for all political parties without ever being a member of that party
putting up posters delivering leaflets canvassing etc

mycroft wrote:

The implication being all IRA men are in Sinn Fein?

i never implied anything of the sort
if thats the implication you took then you are wrong as i have already told you

btw there are women in the IRA as well

mycroft wrote:

Out of curiousity cedbru, would if this be proven, not the murder of Mc Carthy and the IRA cover-up, and not the alledged bankrobbery and half a dozen other crimes, etc.... Would the fact that if the IRA had a weighty infulence on SF decision making infulence whether you vote for 'em?

how can you prove it
it is just guesswork
fta who is a member of sinn fein has told you they don't

micheal mcdowell says that over 96% of sinn fein members have no connection with the IRA so going on his estimat how could 4% of the members decide on everything

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

from here



from here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=228316&page=1&pp=20

I think the authors obvious sarcastic tone clearly implies that to his mind that IRA members support and are members of Sinn Fein. And we'd be idiots to think otherwise.

I don't think its fair for cdebru to use language so sarcastic that Robert Smith would punch him if he was on the mary whitehouse experience, and then say, "I never said that" The tone of his response is "oh shock horror IRA members in Sinn Fein supporter scandal" which to me would imply that to his mind it's obvious that IRA members are involved in Sinn Fein to a serious degree.

If he now wants to quantify this piece of sarcasm it's fine, I'd like him to quanitify if he believes that IRA are active on every level of SF, and if this is the case, whether it'll change his voting, while he's at it.

the line is IRA members support sinn fein

no where did i say all IRA members are sinn fein members
i did not say it because i could not know it

it is obvious to anybody that IRA members are going to be sinn fein supporters i dont see anything shocking in that revelation they are hardly likely to be SDLP supporters

supporters does not mean members

it is also likely that if they are going to be members of a political party then it is likely they would join sinn fein

you have implied/inferred things that i never said

the sarcasm is irrelevent

how i vote is none of your business

mycroft

they do not have to be members of any political party

You said yourself, who else would IRA members campaign for? Are we to believe that people who ten years ago were willing to kill to achieve their aims just took up bowling. That they didn't enter the political process with the weight of their paramilitary activism a nice support to their involvement with a party which glorifies such activism?

campaigning for a party and membership of a party are completely different things
there are thousands of people who campaign at election time for all political parties without ever being a member of that party
putting up posters delivering leaflets canvassing etc

Most of em do so without fake garda uniforms cs canisters and pick axe handles though don't they?

cdebru wrote:

btw there are women in the IRA as well

Seriously Germaine Greer is rolling her eyes right now.

how can you prove it
it is just guesswork
fta who is a member of sinn fein has told you they don't

micheal mcdowell says that over 96% of sinn fein members have no connection with the IRA so going on his estimat how could 4% of the members decide on everything

Because that four percent have a network of supporters and a network of goodwill because that 4% are the 4% who turn up get stuff done, and work under miltary discipline.

Ask anyone, at any party conference a voting bloc has weight, it's difficult to get anyone to commit to something in politics but having a weight of party members at conference who will vote in one direction and have infulence, is a major power bloc.

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

the line is IRA members support sinn fein

no where did i say all IRA members are sinn fein members
i did not say it because i could not know it

it is obvious to anybody that IRA members are going to be sinn fein supporters i dont see anything shocking in that revelation they are hardly likely to be SDLP supporters

supporters does not mean members

it is also likely that if they are going to be members of a political party then it is likely they would join sinn fein

you have implied/inferred things that i never said

the sarcasm is irrelevent

how i vote is none of your business

Seriously may i recommend panten pro V, cause you are seriously spliting hairs here.

cdebru

i will leave it there let earthman deal with it

Well I did ask ye to lighten up.
The Readers here that I am aware of aren't stupid and can make their own minds up as to who is fooling who in this thread.

Theres one almost perfect solution-thread closed oh and perhaps one or either of ye could put each other on ignore