A little controversy

joe the coat

i'm impressed... I start at the begining, jump to end, and go thru 3 topics (islam, svens viking origins, and children being exposed to sex) I think the exposure of children to all sorts of things has honestly gotten worse since I was about 13 or so (I'm only 18 now, not really some old fogey). And others agree with me... Noone in the media or politics really seems to be asking "why?". I mean, what possesses a 13 year to do these things? Is it instictive to 13 year olds, and they now feel free to do these things? And if so, why? Or is it something else? Is the age of adulthood moving back to its medieval age, like in Romeo and Juliet?

As for observing people who have not yet been found guilty, or even charged... very very tricky line. How does one balance protection of the system which upholds your rights with ensuring that the system really does uphold rights, for everyone? I've no answer... Think the best is a sort of opt-out clause. Try and ensure noone dislikes you enough, make everybody happy. Doesn't work, but if you try, you might improve things...

WOOH! Two topics in one posting!... BTW, how many of you actually remember me?

Starbabe

I do! How could i ever forget you, dear Joe of the coat variety;)

I agree that young people are being desesitised. (*sp?*)
Example: I know a 4 yr old and a 6 yr old who will be shocked it you said arse to them, and yell 'bum' as a curse word and think they are being naughty. I know another 2 children who regularly curse and use 'sign' language, but to them its normal. Thats because its what they're used to. They're subjected to violence and strong language and they've become used to it. young people aren't naturally like that, its almost like they've been trained. Its not instinctive.

If a minor commits a crime as bad as one by an adult, maybe the person who gave them the idea (media, writers, person who let them watch or listen etc) should be jailed or fined for causing it. Anything that bad shouldn't be shown to kids.

StupidLikeAFox

Hmmm, im not to sure about that, ''well it wasnt me, the guys in the TV do it''. Thats is a pretty easy cop out. If you're going to commit a crime well ya gotta be prepared for the punishment tbh

HeyYou

That's an idea that's going around a fair bit at the moment, bringing parents to task if their kids get rowdy (bringing media people to trial is just nuts though, they're not responsible for how people react to their work as long as they don't actually advocate violence etc.). But, as a few people have said, kids and teenagers are different now than they were even fifteen years ago; their parents don't have nearly as much responsibility for them and control on them as they used to, and that responsibility void has to be filled by someone. In this case, the individual themselves clearly shoulders the responsibility his/ her parents used to take; as such, that person is more culpable for any wrondoing they are party to than youths in the days of yore. If you do something bad, it's your own fault. Blaming society is a load of c**p.

It wasn't me!

Heh, parents getting blamed for children's actions, everyone remember that Simpsons episode?

Bazookatone

The British government tried to curb "Anti Social Behaviour" (ie being a little scumbag) with ASBO's (Anti Social Behaviour Orders). I saw an interesting documentary on it. They followed one 13-14 year old who had one around for a week or so, and basically watched him continue to vandilise, terrorise and commit petty crime.

Now, the thing about the ASBO idea, is that if you live in a council house and your kid is caught breaking his ASBO, you can all be evicted. Basically, the show showed the kid tearing down the street on a motorbike, when he was specifically prohibited from even touching one (I think it was a stolen one, too) and when they showed the tape to the parents, the father's first reaction was "are you going to broadcast this?" because he knew that they'd be evicted. Not only that, the little s**t sat there with a grin on his face while they watched the tape, acting like he'd just been caught stealing a biscuit! Then when they explained that it would be broadcast and the authorities informed, he:
1) Tried to destroy the tape.
2) Attacked the presenter
3) Attacked the cameraman
4) Stormed out of the house, and screamed abuse from the street.


Now I say, in all seriousness, if I had a shotgun i my hands and that little s**t in my sights, I would pull the trigger without hesitation, or an ounce of remorse.

Piste

If you go onto www.overheardindublin.com there are a load of entries about Skanger parents disciplining their children....although it's funny in some respects...a lot of it really makes you realise how people grow up to be rude and anti-social.

joe the coat

got it. In Sex Ed., teach people about suitable and intelligent control of your darling little child/annoying little criminal bastard. I really mean it. I don't really know how to discipline a child. We use my dad to scare my nephews. It kinda works. They're good kids though... Applying ASBO's to the whole family doesn't help. The point is, this is government stepping in to discipline children who aren't being properly brought up (for whatever reason). The government has responsibility, in as much as its a cost cutting exercise, try and keep them out of jail later...The family can't control them. So the government does.

And it wasn't crime on TV I was talking about. Its sex (though yes, that is a crime underage... but not quite the same when its consenting as say, robbing a car or beating up old ladies for their pensions), or drinking etc... It just seems to gone from "wow, did you know s/he's drinking?" to "wow, did you know s/he hasn't had sex yet?" in just a few years. Or was I out of touch?

joe the coat

Oh, and it doesn't seem to be 15 years ago. I get the impression things have changed in the last 5 years.

HeyYou

I don't think it's that people are having more sex now than they used to, I think it's that people aren't ashamed to be out in the open about it any more. Victorian and Elizabethan England had more sexually undercurrent than most people think, and 1800s Russia was rampant and out of control. It's just that no-one knew it at the time...

Undergod

Bazookatone wrote:

Now I say, in all seriousness, if I had a shotgun i my hands and that little s**t in my sights, I would pull the trigger without hesitation, or an ounce of remorse.

That's completely out of order! Killing a young fella because of a (admittedly long) serious of semi-serious crimes? May as well lobotomize people for breaking a red light.

We're not living in Victorian England, it's the 21st ****ing century and capital punishment of children has no place.

It wasn't me!

They are scumbags though. The world doesn't need people who'll knife you for looking at them.

GlitterB

Bazookatone wrote:

Now I say, in all seriousness, if I had a shotgun i my hands and that little s**t in my sights, I would pull the trigger without hesitation, or an ounce of remorse.

Em how in all seriuosness does that make you any better?? You can't just take a gun to every scumbag or even one that really really annoys you thats not the solution at all.So before you go preaching on about him it sounds like the only difference between the two of ye is he already has his ASBO.

It wasn't me!

"You can't just take a gun to every scumbag"

I beg to differ!

abraham lincoln

i seem to recall there being a plan, discussed here or at something to do with ctyi, to turn the north side into an island, attach large parts of west dublin to it, then allow it to float into the irish sea and let it sink...

It wasn't me!

that was a fun conversation.

LiamD

I can't believe what complete and utter gob****es you are.Who the hell do you seriously think you all are saying that stuff about the northside and west dublin?They haven't got the problem you have.I can't believe that people at CTYI who claim to be very accepting people blah blah blah are here talking about shooting all scumbags and looking down on the northside.Get a life saddos because no-one likes snobs.

StupidLikeAFox

LiamD wrote:

I can't believe what complete and utter gob****es you are.Who the hell do you seriously think you all are saying that stuff about the northside and west dublin?They haven't got the problem you have.I can't believe that people at CTYI who claim to be very accepting people blah blah blah are here talking about shooting all scumbags and looking down on the northside.Get a life saddos because no-one likes snobs.

Uh oh, here come the skangers lads, hold on to your car tyres

ColHol

ColHol wrote:

Uh oh, here come the skangers lads, hold on to your car tyres

he's after you now!

Crash

:rolleyes: if this descends to personal abuse anyone who crosses the line( you can give a guess at where that line is) will be banned.

Barry Aldwell

On the subject of governments watching the population in order to catch terrorists/other undesirable persons: If you have something to hide, then there are plenty of other countries where the government (if there is one) don't care who you are or what you do. The only catch is that these countries have names like "Iraq", "Afghanistan" and "Somalia"

On the subject of undisciplined little barstewards causing havoc: You need a license to have a dog, but you don't need one to have a child. Bring back National Service boo hiss etc

Undergod

LiamD wrote:

I can't believe what complete and utter gob****es you are.Who the hell do you seriously think you all are saying that stuff about the northside and west dublin?They haven't got the problem you have.I can't believe that people at CTYI who claim to be very accepting people blah blah blah are here talking about shooting all scumbags and looking down on the northside.Get a life saddos because no-one likes snobs.

Thank you.

And Barry, if you're referring Saddam Hussein to any supposed Saddam Hussein- Al Qaida link, well Saddam hussein was practically atheist and hated terrorists, and Osama Bin Laden hated him.

Barry Aldwell

Undergod wrote:

And Barry, if you're referring Saddam Hussein to any supposed Saddam Hussein- Al Qaida link, well Saddam hussein was practically atheist and hated terrorists, and Osama Bin Laden hated him.

I was providing examples of lawless countries where nobody cares who anybody is, once you're not trying to overthrow the local tyrant/dictator. I am well aware of Mr Bin Laden's hatred of Saddam, and his offer to the Kuwaiti government-in-exile in late 1990 to drive to Baghdad and take care of Saddam. The Kuwaitis refused his request, and called someone with a slightly more powerful army than Osama's little band of insurgents instead.

Reading too far into my posts is like kicking yourself repeatedly in the crotch: It hurts, and isn't a good idea in the slightest.

It wasn't me!

I differentiate between scumbags and northsiders. A lot. I have nothing against the northside. I do have something against people who'll snatch a bag or a phone out of my hand however, or someone who's quite willing to kill you for what's in your pockets. If it were up to me they'd all be killed. Simple as.

Barry Aldwell

It wasn't me! wrote:

I do have something against ... someone who's quite willing to kill you for what's in your pockets.

A reasonable grudge

It wasn't me! wrote:

If it were up to me they'd all be killed. Simple as.

A not quite so reasonable reaction. Normally I'd be the person most likely to start spouting the "Violence begets violence, so lets kick their heads in" line, but that's a bit far. I agree, someone who wants nothing more than to leech off society, by illegally mugging people, deserves to be removed from said society, but summary justice by a gun toting teenager may be taking it a tad beyond reasonable punishment.

jono087

It wasn't me! wrote:

I differentiate between scumbags and northsiders. A lot. I have nothing against the northside.

You better differentiate between the two... in all fairness anyone who cannot differentiate between scumbags and northsiders is shortsided and to be honest quite ignorant as to the way of the world. Granted there are scumbags living in the northside but there are also scumbags living in the southside. This predjudice revolts me, sometimes I wonder if some of the southside "snobs" have anything to be snobbish about. There is an abundance of wealth on the northside as well as the southside...

Boston

No one gives a fuk what you people think of northsiders, mainly cause you under 18, ha take it. O yea take it.

Btw I need to by your new moderator,

Raphael

Why are you still here?

It wasn't me!

I simply think those leeches of society should be eliminated, by whatever means necessary. They just shouldn't exist.

StupidLikeAFox

And what happens then, you decide D4 heads shouldnt be around, so ya get rid of them, then you go around getting rid of every little subculture you dont like until you have the perfect bunch of people, a super race, and BANG! You've turned into HITLER!!! :eek: