Alternative Heating - Grants

xonencentral

Hi,

Just an update in case there is any confusion, grid-tieing in Ireland i.e. windsave requires you to get a certification from the ESB the same as Airtricity, SEI told my friend that it costs €10,000, there is no route here to do this yet other than getting a contract from the ESB and they aren't allowing even Airtricty connect to the grid at the moment never mind us simple folk. Also, with windsave you need a live supply (if you were allowed to connect it to the ESB in the first place which you arern't, they will disconnect your house if they find out) also you will be the only wind turbine owner in the dark in a power cut, again if you were allowed to use it in Ireland. The windsave also has no backup and when you use no power, its power is wasted, dosen't make any sense to me until you are allowed to grid-tie it to the ESB but don't hold your breath is what the SEI say?

With regards the Bergly 10KW system for 20K, thats a lot of money and by the time you add the duty at x% and VAT at 21%, shipping, installation, etc, etc, it ends up being a lot more. My friend got a quote from www.westwind.ie only several weeks ago for between 60K and 110K depending on the site for a 5KW Bergly SYSTEM for a full installation and they are the Bergly dealer in Ireland. Westwind's own website quote 15 years payback period.

My friend went through all of this process and he settled on surfacepower because it was the lowest risk and the quickest payback. The devil is in the detail, you need a simple product, good service and parts availability as well.

SEI also advised that wind turbines have to be CE marked for 4 different directives and to be careful of invalidating your house insurance for buying a non CE wind turbine. Planning conditions from the dept also state they must be white in colour. Just some more useless info as I remember it.

Be interested to hear from other people who have actually spent money and installed a system.

Nordic

Yes. I spoke to Westwind.ie yesterday and they were quoting Eur6500 more for the inverter, and this is included in the bergey price of $24,750 before VAT than Bergy direct. Not much jog from Westwind.ie - "can sell you the system but I can't use it". Don't understand that kind of marketing. You can have stand alone system, but Eur60,000!!!

The duty is only about 2%.

I've been in contact with bergy. You can use this unit to give a direct supply instead of the ESB supply, via a changeover switch, so you choose ESB or Wind as and when you have the wind, to save the battery cost (Eur20,000+). This way if for the majority of the time you have sufficient supply from the wind, you don't need ESB. I just calculated using SEI's wind data for my location (average 7.25m/s) and my altitude annual probable wind generated output of 23,667kWh. My business and residential total for the last 12 months, house, offices, workshop, demonstrations, 3 phase converter, overhead gantry crane, etc, all came to 25,119 kWh (straight from the electricity bills. This 10kW unit should save me just a few Eur shy of Eur3,000/year. 6 to 7 years payback for me. Rising ESB costs will shorten the payback period. Planning Permission will be the problem.

Look at it this way. With a very small reduction in electrical usage (only 1,450 over a whole year) i wouldn't need the ESB at all.

Wouldn't that be nice: "What you won't let me connect to the grid. Okay disconnect me please, I don't need you anymore Mr ESB."

Mothman

Lads, a serious reality check is needed here about the payback time for wind generators, inc the Surface Power one.

Generally an annual windspeed of about 13-14mph is needed to have a payback time under 15 years. I can see that the surface power one has brought that timeframe down to under 10 years.

The problem with this is that there are very few of us exposed to a mean windspeed of anything near that high. The mean windspeed generally across the country is about 9mph....this is at 10m height. I've been recording windspeed since 1999, and my 10m mean is under 8mph

So if we take the 9mph speed example, that is if you can get the turbine up to that height, that is 4m/s windspeed, using the chart in the Surfacepower brochure, this would give you a saving of about eur18 per bill, or a little over eur100 per year. To cost the system you have to add batteries, some cabling, tower and installation, so can't see it being done for less than eur2000, so payback is heading for 20 years...

Some of the info on the Surfacepower site is very misleading. (I'm being polite)
http://www.surfacepower.com/index-9.html

The SP500W is a micro wind turbine system, it is designed to be an entry level product which will run your house lights, computer, TV, garden lights, security lights and at full use can provide up to €107 worth of electricity per Electricity bill.

There is not a site in these islands where a turbine can run at "full use" A 9mph site will have full use time of well under 1%, 14mph site near 10%

Thankfully, we are changing that, our SP500W has a payback period of 34 months and 28 months if you are a business (VAT claim). That's because we have slashed the cost of ownership, have a look around, you will find competitors selling this size of wind turbine for up to €8,000 in UK and Ireland. Ask us and we'll tell you where to look.

The only sites in Ireland with a payback time that short are perhaps some of the very exposed headlands such as Malin Head in a windy year, and only if you have the turbine mounted 20m or so up.

You will need to create a concrete base, the wind turbine locates onto a standard galvanized scaffolding pole, you will need a 3 core cable which runs down the middle of the pole, (cable size depends on how far between the turbine and the control system which you locate at your house). You will need to purchase a deep cycle battery from your local agent unless you are installing this in a boat, motorhome or have a solar energy system in place already. Its all in the instructions and you can contact technical support at any time if you get stuck. If you want to get a professional builder, electrician to install this kit, then the instructions will provide all the necessary information

All this has to be costed and added onto the turbine price quoted. And bear in mind that batteries will probably need to be replaced during lifetime of turbine.

End of reality check

If you want to get an indication of windspeed at your site try here
http://esb2.net.weblink.ie/SEI/MapPage.asp

But these are at 50-100m heights above ground, windspeed at 10m levels are perhaps 70% of the 50m speeds.

xonencentral

Question for Nordic,

Did westwind quote you 20,000 + for batteries ?

Mothman

Nordic wrote:

I've been in contact with bergy. You can use this unit to give a direct supply instead of the ESB supply, via a changeover switch, so you choose ESB or Wind as and when you have the wind, to save the battery cost (Eur20,000+). This way if for the majority of the time you have sufficient supply from the wind, you don't need ESB. I just calculated using SEI's wind data for my location (average 7.25m/s) and my altitude annual probable wind generated output of 23,667kWh. My business and residential total for the last 12 months, house, offices, workshop, demonstrations, 3 phase converter, overhead gantry crane, etc, all came to 25,119 kWh (straight from the electricity bills. This 10kW unit should save me just a few Eur shy of Eur3,000/year. 6 to 7 years payback for me. Rising ESB costs will shorten the payback period. Planning Permission will be the problem.

Look at it this way. With a very small reduction in electrical usage (only 1,450 over a whole year) i wouldn't need the ESB at all.

All fine and dandy if your wind is even all the time, fact it is not. There can be weeks of near calm followed by weeks of gales. The calm periods giving up nothing and the gales giving you 3 times more than your needs. This is why batteries are used to store the excess for the lean times.

As for the average 7.25m/s which is 16mph, the equivalent figure for my site is 6.5m/s 14mph, but at 10m height my mean for past 6 years is less than 8mph. So I advise caution in how you interpret that 7.25m/s

The cost of tower for a 10kw is very significant

xonencentral

Sorry 20,000 + euros for battery's ?,

My mate paid €190 each up the North for 2 Exide deep cycle "renewable energy batterys"

He told me to say also that the real value he gets from the Surfacepower turbines is that it dosen't need to run at full power to provide him with full power, i.e. say during the night when nothing is on except on/off IR security lights, fridge, his battery's are charging and are fully charged in the morning and that happens every day and he is able to draw full power all the time.

I think it's a balance between positioning your turbines at full height and how many hours a day you need it to supply full power.

Practical Example: If you have a 1000 watt system, and you come home at 6pm. Go to bed at 12 midnight, (6 hours) you would only need 250 watts from your turbine over a 24 hour period to run at full power (1000W) between 6pm and midnight.

All I know is he has his turbines at 8 metres and his last bill was €41 euros and half of that was VAT and the PSO charge. All I can say is, the proof is in the pudding and he keeps rubbing the proof in our faces.

Regarding the windsave system, this has no backup/storage method, all the power you might generate from that at night/at work would be wasted, not very green but it will be a great product once we are allowed grid-tie with the ESB without all the current red-tape and cost which are just methods to keep us from connecting.

Nordic

Mothman wrote:

Lads, a serious reality check is needed here about the payback time for wind generators, inc the Surface Power one.

Thanks for the info. I got my average windspeed (7.25m/s) from: http://esb2.net.weblink.ie/SEI/MapPage.asp
and used the bergey.com spreadsheet which then reduces this to a probability % throughout the year. It also takes into account the height of the turbine and the site altitude. I mirrored the spreadsheet and took both my night and day readings throughout each bi-monthly bill for the past 12 months. I didn't just check it against the overall kWh usage, because if you are using more than it is producing you'll need to have help from ESB. I took the times I was producing too much as of no benefit (I didn't look at this as a credit). I can e-mail you the spreadsheet if you like, and maybe you can look at it to see if it is "realistic". There's a Planning App in for 16 120m turbines 4 miles from me in clear view North of me. I can see for 30 miles South, West and East.
I fly a helicopter, and I can tell you now, the wind here is so strong , it's actually a problem getting enough days to be able to take off in a wind less than 25-30 knots.
I did stress that this isn't for everyone. My exposure coupled with my usage justifies a 10kW unit, I believe. If you check the spreadsheet you might find differently. I'd be interested to know if you can confirm the figures add up or not.

Cost of tower would be significant onto these costs, but I already have a very strong steel frame building (3.2ton gantry crane inside) which I can extend the centre gable post (already 7.5m high) to support the turbine.

I've just e-mail them to you now, spreadsheet with a map locating my site.

Love your web-site. Excellent info.

Regards

Niall

xonencentral

Please help me on this;

I went to that website which I gather is supposed to tell me what my windspeed is and it a modest 7.25 m/s unless I am misunderstanding it.

What I can honestly say is, I can see at least 40 large (GE, I think) wind turbines majestically in the distance from my house and the windspeed at my house on ground level (on average) is higher than this website indicates, in fact we have spent over €2,000 on a significant tree border to try and reduce ground wind speed and unless evrything is bolted down around my house, my neighbor is in posession of it the next morning.

I find all the info here so far very good, but I have done my homework and I have to follow my friends lead and buy a surfacepower system, his results are my validation, it's too cheap to be too concerned about the science and my house is windy enough for me, I want his ESB bill every 2 months. I'll be sure to post my experience up here when I install which won't be too long away.

xonencentral

Hmmmm, I notice that the website giving wind speeds is provided by ESB-I.

Is that not like Fianna Fail providing Fine Gaels website.

Are the ESB not currently freezing the addition of any wind connections to the grid because of unreliability ?

Yet Denmark has no problem, actually most EU countries don't have any problem, is it possible we need to send the ESB into the hospital to get them treated for a serious case of Eircom-itis ?

It takes me back; 10 years ago, I told some people in my local pub I was off to England to buy a car and I reckoned I was going to save about 5 grand Irish and the response was , "sure if it was that easy, wouldn't we be all at it" and do you what, I saved at least 7 grand about 40% by wasting a couple of days and buying a couple of magazines.

"The proof is in the pudding"

Nordic

xonencentral wrote:

Hi,

Just an update in case there is any confusion, grid-tieing in Ireland i.e. windsave requires you to get a certification from the ESB the same as Airtricity, SEI told my friend that it costs €10,000, there is no route here to do this yet other than getting a contract from the ESB and they aren't allowing even Airtricty connect to the grid at the moment never mind us simple folk. Also, with windsave you need a live supply (if you were allowed to connect it to the ESB in the first place which you arern't, they will disconnect your house if they find out).

My friend went through all of this process and he settled on surfacepower because it was the lowest risk and the quickest payback. The devil is in the detail, you need a simple product, good service and parts availability as well.

SEI also advised that wind turbines have to be CE marked for 4 different directives and to be careful of invalidating your house insurance for buying a non CE wind turbine. Planning conditions from the dept also state they must be white in colour. Just some more useless info as I remember it.

Be interested to hear from other people who have actually spent money and installed a system.

xonencentra,
Don't know who you were talking to in ESB or SEI, but two buddies of mine are ESB Engineers, and we are actually listed with SEI, so I know them well, & news I'm getting is it's far easier than that.

Wicklow weather & myself e-mailed each other, he looked at the figures, made some comments, which I agree with, and I adjusted the spreadsheet accordingly. I'm in a windy, hilltop location, with heavy residential & business usage and it would take 9 to 10 years to pay back keeping ESB at today's rates, so probably 9 years allowing them room for price increases over 10 years.
Windsave offers your windpower @ €1440/kWh. cheapest I've found yet. Surfacepower costs twice this per kWh.
in my situation it would payback in 18months, even running @ 75%. my background elec use is a pretty constant minimum of 750W, would be covered entirely by the windsave unit running @75% capacity, whereas for the same money the surfacepower unit @ 75% would only give me a miserable 345W, less than half of my requirements, so I'd still have to pay ESB for have. surfacepower would take twice as long to payback - simple maths.
I'm giving Windsave a call in the morning, to order.

Mothman

Nordic wrote:

Windsave offers your windpower @ €1440/kWh.
in my situation it would payback in 18months, even running @ 75%. my background elec use is a pretty constant minimum of 750W, would be covered entirely by the windsave unit running @75% capacity, whereas for the same money the surfacepower unit @ 75% would only give me a miserable 345W, less than half of my requirements, so I'd still have to pay ESB for half. surfacepower would take twice as long to payback - simple maths.
I'm giving Windsave a call in the morning, to order.

I can certainly see the sense in the logic, and while I think payback on the Windsave would be longer than 2 years, with your set up I would definitely go with that myself. I reckon payback of 5-6 years.

From the calculations, the turbine would be producing at 75%+ 10% of the time. This excess (The electricity produced above 75%) would also be about 10% of annual output, but half the time you'd probably use the excess anyway, so I'd say you'd make use of about 95% of power produced. The unnown is how much power would be produced, but a 1kw turbine on your site would probably produce in excess of 2100kWh per annum

It should be noted that at my site that it's been the windiest Jan-Mar period since I started recording.

And Xonencentral, with what you say about your windspeed then the surface power unit certainly looks a viable option for you.

The point I want to stress is that I believe the vast majority of us don't get enough wind to get a reasonable payback, but for those on top of hills or in seaside locations, then it's likely there would be enough wind.

xonencentral

The main issues I am also considering are:

a) As demand increases, we could be in for more service disruptions on top of the weather caused blackouts and I'd like to maintain my satelite, TV, lights and central heating so backup is important, surfacepower delivers on this and windsave dosen't.
b) I like to utilise the full potential of my turbine, and again SP uses battery storage and windsave has none.
c) I'd like to keep it legal, SEI warned my friend about invalidating his house insurance, (apparently any damage caused by your turbine to your property or your neighbours or god forbid an accidental death could make you personally liable for all damages as your insurance will claim the product wasn't legal if it isn't CE marked accordingly and they could refuse to payout) They also advised the standard applied to the windsave G something or other allows the windsave to connect to the UK grid only. Ireland has no such authorisation and you must go the same route as Airtricity to get a windsave connected in Ireland LEGALLY and to do so will cost in excess of €10,000 and to connect without telling the ESB would be foolhardy as they will see the windsave unit outside your house when they read the meter and hence might disconnect you.
d) The windsave needs a professional installer, none in ireland.

But I do agree as soon as we can legally use such a grid-tie product in Ireland and also have one with back-up as well, the best of both products combined, then we are well on the road to renewable energy.

Nordic

Just in case you think it's a giveaway in the UK - it's not!

Firstly, their economy is not as bouyant as ours. They are ONLY giving their Grant on loops.

Not only that but in most cases you have to pay £200 for an inspection of the work before they will give the Grant. Therefore the Grant in most cases is really only £1000, less more labour, but with far higher running costs. Where's the incentive. In effect, the UK government has tried to make it look like they are promoting, but in fact they have seen that ground loops are more labour intensive than well installations, and so are they get their money's worth by also having the Grant go back into increased employment if it is used, and they get alot of that back from the worker in tax anyway.

We are registered with Clearskies, and ALL of our UK customers went down the route of trying to get the Grant but the figures just didn't add up. To date not one has actually used the Grant. They used wells and will recover what they lost by not getting the Grant in a matter of a year through lower running costs with the well, and no loop cost.

The best move the UK government has made, and it is something that this govenment needs to wake up to is VAT reclaims for new build. Build a new house in the UK and you can claim the VAT back. Imagine that here? They'd be like headless chickens!

Nordic

I'm looking again at the Surface power brochure. Look carefully at it agin boys and girls. Remember I said I was in a windy spot. My average windspeed here on the map is 7.25m/s. Wicklowweather says it will probably be actually lower, but even taking 7.25m/s on surfacepower's graph on page 3 of the brochure it produces a massive 150W - laughable absolutely laughable. Stay away. You need an average sped of 30mph!!! to produce the 460W out of it.

yop

I talked to the lads in Windsave and they said my spark could install the Windsave unit, did not require a professional to install

Nordic

Yes. I called them too, but earliest delivery is June. From the photos (fitted to the side of a house) it's not that big and bulky. I also want to know if I can expand to have multiple units later if I find they pay back quickly. This way I can try out with very little expense and add-on later if it's viable. Seems to be the way to go.

xonencentral

You not doing your homework. You are saying that low windspeed will only produce X watts from the surfacepower system because of the windspeed, I afraid the same applies to Windsave it starts at 3- m/s but I can't find a graph showing what the output is at that speed if any or any other speed?

Its the same for any wind turbine, the windsave is no different, it will produce 1 KW at 12 m/s but you won't get that by bolting it on to the side of your house as in the brochure.

The real difference here is whether your choice is for on-grid or off-grid systems. Both are completely different products but lets not be fooled by anybody using the low wind argument against one product and then completely ignoring the same argument for the other.

I can only outline my mates results on surfacepower, he has two, he CAN talk but maybe somebody out there should spend some money on windsave and lets get "facts" from both sides. All the calculations, theory and spreadsheets won't account for the practicalities of any system or how a person actually untilises it.

I think they are both very good affordable products but I don't intend to be on candle power in a power cut (how embarrassing would that be with a wind turbine in your garden) and I want battery storage so the surfacepower suits my requirements over the other. Its just a matter of choice and how high I will install it will depend on my usage, again no different for any wind turbine.

The price is very acceptable to me as the cheapest "real" price my mate got was several thousand more than this, and the on-grid windsave should be cheaper than the off-grid surfacepower as it is missing a lot of features/electronics as it only outputs electricity and dosen't store or manage that output. (Still the issue that windsave is not legal to use in Ireland)

Wind measurements are all about height and that's everyone's personal decision when installing.

My current ground wind speed in town courtesy of the met measurement is 21 mph and its a normal day.

P.S. If anyone has found a graph of the output of the windsave, please put it up here. I can't find one as it will show a scale up from 0 Watts just like any wind turbine does with windspeed.

Nordic

You're quite right xonencentral. I contacted Windsave's MD & was e-mailed their test data. 7.25m/s gives about 300W. Not what I'm looking for, but no matter how you look at it - twice the output of a surfacepower unit for the same money.
He also mentioned that their price is now €1835.
Having been willing to put serious money into a wind system, I can now see that unless you up-size to something like a 30kW, you won't get any worthwhile output. The size & cost is prohibitive, and now makes me mad at how our beautiful landscape is obviously being blemished by 120m turbines for what I now know to be a relatively very small return.
Put them at sea like the Arklow Sand Banks Project & the infrastructure is already then in place for anchoring wavepower units (with solar "lids") to the wind turbines. This would make them worth while but at least we'd still have a beautiful landscape.
No wind turbine for me I'm afraid - I'll spend my €1600 on a generator for emergency use.
ESB win unfortunately, and they don't need to be hard to deal with.
Today's home use turbines are a waste of time - just what Mothman was trying to tell us.

Nordic

You're quite right xonencentral. I contacted Windsave's MD & was e-mailed their test data. 7.25m/s gives about 300W. Not what I'm looking for, but no matter how you look at it - twice the output of a surfacepower unit for the same money.
He also mentioned that their price is now €1835.
Having been willing to put serious money into a wind system, I can now see that unless you up-size to something like a 30kW, you won't get any worthwhile output. The size & cost is prohibitive, and now makes me mad at how our beautiful landscape is obviously being blemished by 120m turbines for what I now know to be a relatively very small return.
Put them at sea like the Arklow Sand Banks Project & the infrastructure is already then in place for anchoring wavepower units (with solar "lids") to the wind turbines. This would make them worth while but at least we'd still have a beautiful landscape.
No wind turbine for me I'm afraid - I'll spend my €1600 on a generator for emergency use.
ESB win unfortunately, and they don't need to be hard to deal with.
Today's home use turbines are a waste of time - just what Mothman was trying to tell us.

xonencentral

I actually ordered my system from Surface Power yesterday, I want my friends ESB bill, he runs all his lights, TV's, sat, central heating, etc from it without using ESB at all, hence his low bill, just uses cooker and kettle and any other heavy stuff on ESB. Agree on the larger system's, just to expensive. When ordering from SP, I asked about bigger systems, they will have bigger ones at low prices coming on line over the next 24 months up to 5 KW. They told me they would allow a trade-in of any smaller ones purchased should somebody want to upgrade as newer products came online.

Got the low down on some other things doing my homework, to connect a windsave to the grid you need a generating licence from the commision for electricity regulation and in that step, there is a testing specifcation to be completed for the ESB to ensure that your equipment can supply power that is of the required quality, etc. (THat means you have buy the equipment in advance, have it tested and the ESB might say no good but anyhow this is the bit the ESB are not even doing at the moment) and this whole step is only designed for large commercial windfarms but in the absence of a system for micro grid-tieing, (one size fits all so (10,000 euros as well to test the winsave) we're going to be excluded from grid-tieing until the new rules are agreed), I won't be waiting for the ESB to rush on this one, this is why it's illegal just to go ahead and do it. (SEI)
I asked my my local RECI electrician if he would do the install for me (building regs) (Windsave system) and he reckoned I was MAD and he would be disbarred or whatever the equivilant was for doing it, he reckons you don't mess with the ESB.

SEI also say future supports are on the way, green energy certificates which can be cashed in and tax benfeits for people who produce green energy, this has to be for us small guys. Thank God and they are all rebate schemes for energy produced so safe enough to go ahead and purchase, any potential support/grant on buying the equipment isn't on the agenda apparently.

My current ground wind speed where I live is 29 mph (13 m/s on the ground) according to the met service today, another normal day and I would be getting full wind speed from my turbine even if low down, so I can't wait to get it up in the air.

We been out with anometer doing a site test and the average on my site is 15.2 m/s for the last 2 hours with a maximum of 18.23 m/s recorded so my personal ground wind speed is higher than the met office but I guess those guys just average everything out. The guys who want you to spend 60 grand on a system recommend windtests which of course I suppose they will do for another 2 grand. You would want to the Sheik of Oman to do business with some of these wind turbine dealers.

"Must go and have a word with the neighbours and break them in gently"

Nordic

I've had a long hard think and have decided that, until I have some actual data of my own to base a decision on, it's pointless. I have purchased a computer linked Anemometer and software $99.00 + $12.00 S&H to Ireland and I'm going to hook it up to one of the PCs here, and monitor for the next two months and decide then whether I'll buy or not and based on the data I get what turbine. I'm not going to invest in something that doesn't produce a good ESB replaceable output. I'm going towards the 10kW unit @ Eur19k as a complete replacement but will only do it if it is based on realistic data, not someone else's map.

Link to this gear : http://www.inspeed.com/Wind%20Data%20Logging/Windware_kit.asp

Mothman

That's a wise move Nordic.
Remember that when you are assessing the data to compare it to what's happening in the rest of the country compared to average.

A couple of months is a very short sampling time, and it may be that those months are vey windy(or visa versa) compared to average as with the last few days, but you can guessimate what the average speed for your site would be.

Since I've sussed out that I don't have near enough wind to even think about getting a wind turbine, I thought the least I could do was to change my supplier from ESB to Eirtricity. I did this about 3 weeks ago.

Its essentionally a paper exercise, but still I thought it's a step, if a tiny one, in the right direction for me.

Nordic

Actual wind power data from Airtricity:
http://www.eirtricity.ie/opencontent/default.asp?itemid=433&section=WIND+FARMS
Take a look guys.
I pulled this data into a spreadsheet to see how it performed relative to the "rated output" of the turbines - which is what we all need to look at to see what percentage of the rated output we are likely to get. Remember we don't live in remote windy locations like these sites, and their actual data shows they produced only 19.86% of their rated output!
Pathetic! Really pathetic!
19.86% of the surfacepower's rated output is less than 100W.

Again I can't help thinking our landscape is being destroyed needlessly.
I suppose at least if that electricity was then used with a heat pump who's COP was at least 5.03 (not a groundloop) it would in effect make these wind farms 19.86% x 5.03 = 100% efficient!!! but it wouldn't have been the wind farm that made it happen!!!

xonencentral

Great to see that everyone is going to do measurements, its the only way, its a site by site issue rather than a turbine one. I have completed 3 days of wind measurements and the only similarity I can find is the met office who are the closest to giving me a real daily wind speed. The results are far different than all these maps that are around.

The met office did say that wind maps are being interpolated by computers using scarce ground weather sites and terrain maps and they think its great for the primary school wall and not much else, "the proof is in the pudding" and as with any wind turbine, if you get 19.86% of its output, it will be nothing to do with the wind turbine where the secification is your choice (500W, 2KW, 5KW, etc) but your location and your installation height.

What I liked about surface power and Air-X and others is that they produce output figures and graphs which seem to be real and reflect what I would expect, and then i can make my own analysis as an engineer based my own site experience. I want to run all my lights, up to 60 (6W+8W+16W(16W CFL is 100W eqivilant)) Philips soft tone CFL's light bulbs covering all the rooms of my house, garage, gardens, driveway and workshop. When they are not all on, I will run TV's, etc. A 500W turbine system is perfect for me as it will run what I want. I need full output from 6pm until midnight primarally, so thats means I need at least an average of 125Watts from my turbine a day to give me 500Watts for 6 hours. If I get more, brilliant, I'll find a use for it but primarally, I use very little ESB during the day like most 2.4 homes in the country. (We are all at work, but when I do work from my home office, it will also run, my sat, TV, PC and any lights as well when required)

I live on the western half of Ireland and am inland from the sea about 60 miles on flatland just outside my very large county town (nothing special), my average windspeed was 23.5 mph from my anometer at 8 ft over ground over the weekend and it was lovely and sunny yesterday to boot. (met office gave me 21 mph on Sat for my local ground wind speed). To me, the wind speed feels like normal for my local area when I am in my garden.

I'll put up more measurements as I get them in and when I get my turbine up as well.

I'm not sure I would link any data from a commercial wind turbine outputs as there are many considerations surrounding supply to ESB including quota's, etc. The fact that a farm was outputing 18% of their rated output might not be anything to do with wind availability, in fact in a recent report from SEI, wind turbines were averaging longer service hours, up to 97% against the ESB's coal, oil, gas stations 87% in service per annum.

Again, assumptions need to be detailed as they can give the wrong conclusions.

I am a new user on this forum and sometimes product bashing comes very close to the surface without much substance behind it, I would like to think we could keep forums of this nature free from this. Someone will always want to buy a Ford Mondeo and someone else a Mitsubishi all for their very own reasons.

xonencentral

Sorry, Meant to add the bit that all commercial wind farms automatically shut down their turbines at 80KPH (50 MPH ) for safety reasons.

Lissavane

I notice xonencentral is coy about where in the country he is conducting his weather-monitoring activities.
Could it perhaps be Claremorris, just down the road from Surface Power's Castlebar address?
Any chance he/she might be directly involved in Surface Power?

xonencentral

Lissavane, please read attached other reply.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2807490#post2807490

Not sure where the location question is coming from, nobody asked me before, I live outside Ballina.