SF candidate fails to make statement to Police Ombudsman

MT

From UTV

SF candidate in McCartney murder bar

A Sinn Fein Assembly election candidate was among around 70 people in the bar where Belfast father-of-two Robert McCartney was murdered, it emerged today.


Cora Groogan, who ran for Sinn Fein in the November 2003 Assembly elections in Martin McGuinness`s Mid Ulster constituency, admitted to the Press Association she was in Magennis`s bar on January 30 when a fight erupted resulting in the murder of Mr McCartney.

During the attack, Mr McCartney`s friend Brendan Devine also sustained serious stab wounds.

However, she insisted she saw nothing inside the bar and confirmed she had given a full statement to her solicitor.

The Sinn Fein member said: "I got to the bar about 10.00pm
that Sunday. I was there for a short while.

"There was a commotion in the bar but I witnessed nothing and left shortly after 11.00pm.

"I have given a full statement to my solicitor."

Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams has in recent weeks called for all witnesses to come forward with information about what happened on the night when Mr McCartney was killed.

The IRA has expelled three members following an internal
investigation over their role in the killing and cover-up.

That following claims from Mr McCartney`s family that members of the organisation involved were being shielded and witnesses were being intimidated.

Last Tuesday the IRA also confirmed that at a five-and-a-half hour meeting with the McCartney family they had offered to have those involved in the murder shot, but this was rejected.

Catherine McCartney today said she was astonished to learn that a Sinn Fein candidate had been present on the night her brother Robert was killed.

"She says she has given a statement to a solicitor but I would challenge her to give a statement to the police or the Police Ombudsman," Catherine McCartney said.

"Giving statements to solicitors is not really what is needed. The statement should be given to people with the proper investigative skills who can help to bring those responsible to court."

The revelation that a candidate was present on the night of the murder in Magennis`s bar will place further pressure on Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams who has already suspended seven party members after receiving their names from the McCartney`s.

The West Belfast MP also passed on the details of those seven members to the Northern Ireland Police Ombudsman Nuala O`Loan whose investigators had offered to help the detectives.

Republicans have been reluctant to ask witnesses to come forward with information directly to the police because of their belief that the new police service has failed to match nationalist expectations of police reforms.

The nationalist SDLP, the catholic church and the British, Irish and US Governments, however, have all backed the new policing arrangements and support co-operation with the detectives probing Mr McCartney`s murder.

The family of Robert McCartney have in recent days expressed concern that while there is a lot of political activity around efforts to bring the killers before the courts, not enough information is coming on the ground to the police investigation.

Police have also confirmed that people arrested and questioned about the murder had exercised the right to silence.

Detective Superintendent George Hamilton, the senior investigating officer, has also voiced concern that some witnesses are still reluctant to come forward because of fear about reprisals in their own community if they help detectives.

Catherine McCartney said today: "We are adamant that people who know what happened should give that information.

"It is frustrating that there has been a lot of political activity around this issue over the past few weeks and yet very little information is coming from the ground.

"It is frustrating that despite appeals from Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams for people to provide evidence, that is not materialising and the family would urge everyone to help this investigation and give as much detail as possible."

Sinn Fein`s chief negotiator Martin McGuinness said today he didn`t care who was in the bar as long as they gave information to the authorities.

Refusing to comment specifically on the revelations, he said: "I`m not going to talk about any individual. It doesn`t matter who they are.

"I don`t care who was in the bar that night. People have a duty to help the McCartney family achieve the truth and justice that they deserve."

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So much for the calls by Gerry and the Peacemakers urging those in the bar to give statements to the Police Ombudsman. Is there one rule for the people and another for party members? Furthermore, it's now six weeks after the murder and Sinn Féin's co-operation in solving this crime remains woefully inadequate.

I think this whole affair is becoming a microcosm of the 'peace' process itself. Instead of doing all they can to bring the family closure Sinn Féin appear to be playing this saga for as much political benefit/damage limitation as possible. In much the same way the IRA could have decommissioned years ago allowing devolution to take hold. But instead the entire process has been dragged out for as long as possible guaranteeing SF a far higher profile than a party their size might otherwise merit.

I wonder how many more weeks will pass before Cora Groogan decides to properly aid the search for 'truth and justice' her party blathers on about? Will the PSNI Ombudsman be kept waiting for another six weeks? Or was Gerry Adam's call for those with information to contact the ombudsman merely a stunt?

In my view, the party's hypocrisy and cynicism throughout has been as breathtaking as it’s been revolting. I think this episode shines a light on the utter one-sidedness of Sinn Féin's campaign for truth and justice.

Surely the IRA's human rights abuses must now represent Sinn Féin's very own ‘Guantanamo Bay’.

Villain

This young woman saw nothing so she has no information to help the investigation, I'd be more interested in getting those who saw the incident to come forward.

I for one can say that I have been in a bar when a serious assualt took place but saw nothing, I don't like to get involved in such incidents. I'm sure many more people can say the same.

So how about you stop bashing SF because a member was in a bar when the incident happened but saw nothing.

At this rate we should re-name the politics forum to "Sinn Fein's Politics"

mycroft

irish1 wrote:

This young woman saw nothing so she has no information to help the investigation, I'd be more interested in getting those who saw the incident to come forward.

I for one can say that I have been in a bar when a serious assualt took place but saw nothing, I don't like to get involved in such incidents. I'm sure many more people can say the same.

So how about you stop bashing SF because a member was in a bar when the incident happened but saw nothing.

At this rate we should re-name the politics forum to "Sinn Fein's Politics"

Yeah, she says she knows nothing, but then Mary Lou was on the record a few weeks ago saying the death of Jean Mc Conville, was not a crime, I'm just a tad sceptical of what she claims she did and did not see.

The back peddling and story changing of both sinn fein and the ira over the last 6 weeks has been interesting to watch. I wonder how this story will develop.

I'm also fascinated how long it's taken this gem to come out.

For example was she drinking with any of the 7 sinn fein members expelled, it seems unlikely she didn't know them, and she is standing for election.

Seth Brundle

@mycoft - was that not Mitchell Mcloughlin not Mary Lou?

Anyway, I have been in that pub. Its not very big and any kind of scuffle would be noticed! Also after the men went out and murdered Robert McCartney, they returned to the bar, locked the doors and whilst instructing all not to report any of this to the police they removed all cctv footage from the pub. And both* SF candidates who were there saw nothing? Bull****!

* so far it appears that two SF candidates were there and saw nothing but I expect this figure to rise

mycroft

@mycoft - was that not Mitchell Mcloughlin not Mary Lou?

Mary Lou on this week in politics a no. of weeks ago

And the family have started calling the toilet the tardis because that is the only explain how the number of people who were in the bar who claimed to be in their at the time

monument

Still, I fail to see the reason why she couldn’t have at least went directly to the Ombudsman, even with her lawyer. Even if the statement was only to say she didn’t see anything.

mycroft wrote:

I'm just a tad sceptical of what she claims she did and did not see.

Would I be right in saying you would probably would be ‘a tad sceptical’ no matter what she said?

lomb

irish1 wrote:

This young woman saw nothing so she has no information to help the investigation,

bull****

mycroft

monument wrote:

Would I be right in saying you would probably would be ‘a tad sceptical’ no matter what she said?

Well the aura of lies, intimidation, back peddling, desperate attempt to secure good PR, combined with her statement of "I saw nothing" appearing over a month the murder, makes me a tad sceptical.

I can't say what I'd feel if the situation was different.

lomb

these people actually dont deserve to rule a zoo, never mind the people. i hope their support erodes to nothing.

usually when a murder is commited full statements are given to police immediately b4 ones memory lapses. solicitors arent professional criminologists, it is the polices job to solve crimes.

in a small pub, where there is a hugh fracus, people running out, then others running in, cleaning the scene shouting to people they have seen nothing or they are dead. i can imagine it in my minds eye, 2 SF canditates there (and it takes a month for this information to come it lol). these people are total hypocrits and liers, and are accesories to murder. in the usa some people have got the electric chair for being an accessory. even this is too good for adams et all.

mike65

Dont worry it only a matter of time before every last person in that pub declares they heard and saw nothing.

Here's another deaf dumb and blind SF member link

Mike.

AmenToThat

lomb wrote:

these people actually dont deserve to rule a zoo, never mind the people. i hope their support erodes to nothing.

You can hope all you want as its simply not happening.
SF support is remaining steady.

lomb

AmenToThat wrote:

You can hope all you want as its simply not happening.
SF support is remaining steady.

and most are working class stiffs with little or no education and only hatred for others due to years of abuse.

Seth Brundle

lomb wrote:

2 SF canditates there (and it takes a month for this information to come it lol).

In fact there were 2* not counting the 7 who were allegedly involved in the murder!

* currently 2 but this seems to be increasing daily this week

FX Meister

She's a scum bag from Sinn Fein what do you expect? She is cute though.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

lomb wrote:

and most are working class stiffs with little or no education and only hatred for others due to years of abuse.

:rolleyes:

You have a lot to learn

OfflerCrocGod

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You have a lot to learn

It's the truth. It's you who has to learn, the majority of SF voters are idiots.

mycroft

FX Meister wrote:

She's a scum bag from Sinn Fein what do you expect? She is cute though.

Thank you for your informed and insighful opinion.

Just out of interest does anybody know if there were people who are members of other political parties who are keeping quiet?

I think the whole point is SF is a party tied with links to the paramilitary organisation who orginally sheltered several of its members who the family alledge murdered their brother.

I'm going to go out on limb and work under the assumption the UUP, and DUP didn't have any members drinking in a pub where IRA men would drink to after a bloody sunday commeration.

A Dub in Glasgo

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

It's the truth. It's you who has to learn, the majority of SF voters are idiots.

Really? when did you do the analysis?

Villain

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

the majority of SF voters are idiots.

What a great post :rolleyes:

monument

lomb wrote:

and most are working class stiffs with little or no education and only hatred for others due to years of abuse.

I’m sure you would love if everyone was “educated” to your view of the world. But it’s pretty sick to see someone using other people’s social class in such a way – "working class stiffs" (sic) – to somehow try to further their argument.

What “hatred for others due to years of abuse” does the Republic’s “working class stiffs” (sic) have?

FX Meister wrote:

She's a scum bag from Sinn Fein what do you expect? She is cute though.

Now, that’s just uncalled-for.

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

It's the truth. It's you who has to learn, the majority of SF voters are idiots.

This just gets better and better, doesn’t it?


I’m always questioning the mindset of republicans, but the views shown here from some SF-bashers lately, from the call to mass murder any suspected IRA member (murder is actually what some SF-bashers see as justice!) to downright bigotry and petty name-calling, is showing a lot about a large section of the SF-bashers.

BuffyBot

Still, I fail to see the reason why she couldn’t have at least went directly to the Ombudsman

I think it's time, once and for all, they started directing people towards giving statements to the proper investigative authorities and not being so wishy-washy about it all.

AmenToThat

BuffyBot wrote:

I think it's time, once and for all, they started directing people towards giving statements to the proper investigative authorities and not being so wishy-washy about it all.

The problem is that many republicans dont see the the PSNI/RUC as the proper investigative authority.
If your going to post on a topic my I respectfully suggest you at least make the effort to understand the topic your commenting on.

ionapaul

To be fair to the girl, despite her being in SF, no doubt she'd disappear fairly sharpish (along with members of her family) should she even think about going to the police. It isn't as though those lovable lads fighting on all of our behalfs for a socialist, united Ireland wouldn't put a bullet in her head and bury her in a shallow grave somewhere just because she is a republican supporter or politician.

Lemming

AmenToThat wrote:

The problem is that many republicans dont see the the PSNI/RUC as the proper investigative authority.
If your going to post on a topic my I respectfully suggest you at least make the effort to understand the topic your commenting on.

So .... how would SF/IRA propose that the killers are "brought to justice"? I'm curious to hear the answer to this

jman0

I wonder why the PSNI don't start arresting people that were inside the pub for conspiracy. Seems that would be a way to break the ice...

lomb

ionapaul wrote:

To be fair to the girl, despite her being in SF, no doubt she'd disappear fairly sharpish (along with members of her family) should she even think about going to the police. It isn't as though those lovable lads fighting on all of our behalfs for a socialist, united Ireland wouldn't put a bullet in her head and bury her in a shallow grave somewhere just because she is a republican supporter or politician.

thats true enough, how can any sane person support animals though?

BuffyBot

The problem is that many republicans dont see the the PSNI/RUC as the proper investigative authority.
If your going to post on a topic my I respectfully suggest you at least make the effort to understand the topic your commenting on.

Oh I understand. Frankly, that's their problem though. If they are serious about getting this issue resolved, they'll grow a backbone and bring their solicitors with them to the police station and not pussyfoot around the issue

ishmael whale

FX Meister wrote:

She's a scum bag from Sinn Fein what do you expect? She is cute though.

Of course if you said that in the wrong place you’d be surrounded by a half dozen ‘volunteers’ asking ‘Did you spill my pint?’

Lemming

jman0 wrote:

I wonder why the PSNI don't start arresting people that were inside the pub for conspiracy. Seems that would be a way to break the ice...

I believe that constitutes "intimidation".

Something SF/IRA and their supporters should be quite familiar with in regards how to go about executing it.

lomb

jman0 wrote:

I wonder why the PSNI don't start arresting people that were inside the pub for conspiracy. Seems that would be a way to break the ice...

yep theyre all guilty of perverting the course of justice, conspiracy, accessories to murder.