small dog recommendations.... ?

yak

Hey all,

i'm looking to get a small dog for my parents, an ex gf of mine used to bring her cavalier king charles around and they fell in love with him, and now that we have split they are missing the little fella!!

I'm looking for a small dog, thats not too hyper! but at the same time can be playfull...(kinda a contradiction i know!!) it will probably be on its own for 5 or 6 hours (prob 2/3 times per week) aside from that there will nearly always be someone in the house with him. and will they live in a residential area i know he would get lots of excercise esp at weekends. i know cavaliers are quite 'dumb' when it comes to traffic, is this the case with all small dogs or just them in particular..?

i am looking for any recommendations/pointers/information that anyone has for me, i was thinking along the lines of a cavalier king charles or maybe a pug... but after that im stuck.... male/female black/white etc.. i was told that dogs that are black (or partly black) are often more hyper than white/ruby does... and males more so than females... is this true? or does an dogs colour have any bearing on its temperment... also is it true that females are often more intelligent than males... making them easier to train etc...

and finally the name of any good breaders (in or around galway) would also be greatly appreciated.

hope ye can help!!!

Lexie

We have two yorkshire terriers at home and they are absolutely brilliant pets. They are small, friendly, not too hyper, they dont shed their hair and are extremely loyal. They are two males. I find males easier than females, (no heat cycles, phantom pregnancies, risk of pregnancy, etc..) Wouldnt imagine that females are more intelligent than males. Our two males would buy and sell you.

Nala

Check out

http://www.ckcsc.org/

http://www.ackcsc.org/

peasant

Several points there:

To measure a dogs intelligence or other traits by colour, size or sex is utter nonsense. They are all different, all individuals.

Some dogs are wiser to traffic than others ...nonetheless ALL of them belong on a lead / behind a secure fence when near traffic.

Selecting a dog by breed may give you clou to what it looks like ...nothing else. Any other trait (hyper, intelligent, etc) is a matter of individuality and socialisation/training (or lack thereof).

Getting a puppy might not be such a good idea. Puppies are an awful lot of work (feed, clean, take outside ever 3- 5 hours ...regularly) and can certainly not be left alone for 5 - 6 hours. Get an adult dog.

I'm getting the impression that you are about to surprise your parents with this new puppy dog. Not a good idea. They need to be involved in the decision making ...after all it's them who will have to love the dog for the next 15 or so years.

As first time dog owners I would really recommend that you get an adult dog (whose character is already formed an can be assessed) from a rescue / shelter. These are experienced "doggy people" and they can match your parents (according to their circumstances) with the perfect dog for them.

Have look here:
www.irishanimals.ie in the homes needed section. I'm sure your parents will find the perfect dog for them.

yak

Thanks for all your feedback so far!!

Firstly Lexie, I had thought of a terrier alright, but every terrier that I have ever seen, seems to have had a habit of 'going nuts' with strangers... and they seem to have been very loud dogs, while the (admittedly few) cavaliers have been much quieter and possibly more obedient (?)... (I’m waiting to be corrected on that statement..) And with living in a residential area I’m inclined to think that a less 'yappie' dog might be a better idea...

Thanks for the websites nala; I’ll have a look at them in more detail when I get a chance over lunch.

And peasant, thanks for your detailed reply, just to add some information and circumstances to the original post, they know about the dog, however they want to be surprised by what breed it is if you get my drift?!? They both grew up with animals (not just dogs and cats) so they know the sort of work that a newborn takes!

I thought about 'rescuing' an animal from a shelter but I think they would prefer to start from scratch, with a puppy that’s not carrying any baggage (and possibly as you pointed out "whose character is already formed"). I also think that they would prefer to experience all the 'puppy stuff' (cuteness and yes house training etc). As for the puppy being left alone that long, what I said in the original post was a 'worst case' 9 times out of 10 there is someone at home and definitely 6 hours would be the absolute max without anyone there.

Since I first posted this morning, I was looking at a couple of the American sites, and they seem to be of the impression that the pug would be a much more docile animal than the cavalier? Would ye agree or is there another, obvious breed that I’m missing entirely...

peasant

sorry, just me again with more annoying remarks ...

Don't get too hung up on the breed vs behaviour issue. It is proven that dogs vary much more in individual character than breed. That means you can get two dogs of the same breed that are the total opposites in behaviour and two dogs from totally oppossite breeds that behave alike. The only thing that a breed is really good for is that it gives you a fairly good indication what to expect size and lookswise once the dog is fully grown ...nothing else. The only indicaton towards general behaviour lies in the type of breed. A terrier was traditionally bred to hunt vermin and might therefore have a stronger hunting instinct. Whereas a toy/companion dog was always bred to make a good companion. But even that type description has been very much watered down over recent generations.

Another potential problem with popular breeds is health. The more popular a breed the more people produce dogs to satisfy the market. Often under conditions and with bloodlines that do no good whatsoever to the dogs character or future health. This is particularly bad with so called puppy farms.

A fair amount of your dogs future behaviour will depend on its upbringing and training. To put it bluntly; the wrong upbringing can ruin a purebred just as well as a rescue puppy.

Oh yeah, there are a lot of puppies in rescues as well !!

So to sum it up: read up about your breeds on breeders websites, dismiss all information about alledged behaviour and character for the bull**** that it is and narrow it down to a few breeds that you like the looks of.
And then go looking around the rescues for puppies of that breed or nice mixes thereof.

Actually, I think a mix is a very good idea. You will not be distracted by the alledged character traits it is supposed to have, and you can treat and train it without predjudice as the little individual it is.

And against common wisdom, there are quite a lot of puppies in rescues whose parentage is known rather than guessed, so that you can be pretty sure that you are indeed getting a puppy that will be a SMALL dog, once fully grown.


Also have a look at this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=232788

bigger dogs, same issues

Dyr

i have a shiba inu, small and cute without being cissy, smart, playful wee man and they are said to be very easy to house train (mine trained himself lol). Though you probably would have to watch em around cats birds, dogs etc, very strong prey drive it seems.

yak

peasant without sound disrespectful, who ideally should (or could) in your honest opinion get a puppy?

i always associated puppies with training and fun and games etc... i do realise they require a lot of time and effort (not to mention money), but what doesnt in this day and age?!? but from what i have read here, you and others have basically told me, not to get a dog, and that if i do get a dog, then to get an adult one... even if theres a greater possibility that it would not turn out like what i want it to.. (either physically or mentally)

i realise more than anything that a dog isnt 'just for christmas', and i certainly wouldnt recommend anyone to rush out and get a dog for the sake of getting one, but at the same time, i wouldnt condone anyone from getting one as long as they had the right motives, and the capability to nurture, train, and be a companion to the dog.

I still plan on getting a puppy for my parents, because I personally believe its better for them than an adult dog, and i personally believe that the animal will be very happy, well taken care of, and loved for the next 10, 12 or 15 years (hopefully). I also plan to go for a purebred, simply because it takes away some of the 'unknows' associated with cross breeding.

i dont mean to sound disrespectful, and i really do appreciate all the information and advise that everyone has shared with me, and it has all been taken on board even if not accepted as been the best in my situation...

Thanks again.

Liam.

Dyr

I once saw heard of a rescue that refused an elderly person a dog to replace their old one as they (the old dear) would probably not live much longer and it wouldnt be fair on the dog! :eek:

Some people tend to go a bit far with the sermonizing despite best intentions, dogs have been adapting to humans for quite some time and can quite happily live in many different circumstances. Having said that human society is changing quite a bit and dogs are becoming less compatible with our livestyles

Bard

Cairn Terrier's are pretty smart and easy to train and make great pets. My family have one. He looks something like this

peasant

Hello Liam,

Naa.. you're getting me wrong here. I' m not trying to talk you or your parents out of getting a dog or even a puppy, for that matter. You / your parents seem to be well up for the challenges and responsibilities that come with having a dog, as well as all the fun.

The only thing I'm trying to point out is that "pure bred" does't guarantee anything but a certain size and shape. Not health, not character, not behaviour nor road savviness.

There are very good breeders out there with very good, healthy, sound dogs. Unfortunately they are relatively few and far between. If you know a reputable breeder, one where you can inspect both parents (at least the mother !!), where the breeding takes place in a clean, healthy environement with contact to people and proper socialising of the puppies from a young age, where there is a waiting list because the breeder only breeds a bitch once or twice in her life, where there are only a few breeding bitches and maximum two different breeds ...go ahead ...talk to them ...put your name down for a puppy and wait patiently.

What I'm up in arms against is what I call the "catalogue mentality" of some dog owners and so called "breeders". One ticks all the boxes of desired looks, size, character , behaviour and so on ...and hey presto ... up pop several breeders websites that offer just what one was looking for. All at a slightly inflated price and deliverable tomorrow.

That is nonsense! Because (at the risk of repeating myself) any dog is most and foremost an individual. Breed standards describe size, colour(s), shape and maybe the original purpose the dogs where once bred for. Any general description of character or behaviour is wishful thinking (or a marketing ploy) on the breeders behalf.

But a lot of people believe these character descriptions as gospel truth. They get branded around in the media, repeated by lots of people as folky "wisdom" ...that still doesn't make them true.

Therefore I can not recommend one breed over another as ideal for anyones requirements, because at the end of the day it all hinges on the individual dog itself.

The reason why I am pushing rescue dogs to the foreground ist simply that there are so many. Thousands of dogs get put down every year in Ireland because nobody wanted them anymore. And "catalogue customers" are in no small part to blame. Having fallen for the advertising bumpf they get a specific dog described as having such and such traits ...if it turns out differently ...dump it!

As far as you and your parents are concerned, you are free to choose any dog you want, all I ask is that you consider my arguments. Please do not buy on impulse, buy from a reputable breeder or give a dog from a rescue a chance.

One more, final argument for the "mongrel": Due to very restrictive breed desricptions and exclusion of any animal that doesn't fulfill them, "pure" breeds are being bred from an ever narrowing gene pool. This brings with it a rising number of inherited diseases, allergies, skeletal problems as well as behavioral issues like rising aggression. Some breeds are more affected by this than others. (once again, a good breeder will talk freely about these problems).
Due to the greater mixing of genes, mongrels are generally (but sadly not always) healthier than their "pure" comrades. Having said that ...even their gene pool is getting shallower, as more and more of their inbred cousins invade.

peasant

One more thing:

yak wrote:

Firstly Lexie, I had thought of a terrier alright, but every terrier that I have ever seen, seems to have had a habit of 'going nuts' with strangers... and they seem to have been very loud dogs, while the (admittedly few) cavaliers have been much quieter and possibly more obedient (?)... (I’m waiting to be corrected on that statement..) And with living in a residential area I’m inclined to think that a less 'yappie' dog might be a better idea...

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Terriers have by no means bought the sole rights for "being yappie" .... just the reputation. Any dog can be a right nuisance (even a Cavalier) when its owner allows it to do so. Nothing whatsoever to do with the breed, just with the owner. But the "it's a Terrier"-tag makes a good excuse for the lazy owner, as it is accepted "wisdom" that all terriers are yappie.
They're not.

leche solara

an ex gf of mine used to bring her cavalier king charles around and they fell in love with him, and now that we have split they are missing the little fella!!

Maybe if you made a little (or even a lot) of effort in getting your gf back you'd then get the King Charles back as well

FranknFurter

I ALWAYS answer this with, neutered, female, jack russell terrier.
Amazingly clever, loyal dog, ours knows about playtime and restime, and will adapt to your lifestyle like no other breed can imho.

yak

firstly solora, dont get me wrong, but going back in a non-starter! we would both be driven demented, and this way there is at least a chance that we can remain friends,which we are better at than anything else!!

peasant thanks for your frank (and honest), information and advise, all of it is greatly appreciated. i understand where you are coming from, but as i said before i just dont think that a rescue dog is best for my family. i do agree with you tho, that it is a shame (prob even crimal) the way some dogs are treated and discarded. my ex was a true animal lover like you obivously are and made me look at animals in a whole new light.

after doing some more research last night i came across who breeds that i think i am goin to look for, the first being a PUG so if anyone has any information or experiences please let me know, the second is prob the obivous one of the cavalier (prob black and tan) so again information appreciated... where to find a reputable breeder, training dos/donts etc...

i have looked at the ikc.ie website and while they a list of clubs there doesnt seem to be much information on breeders... i dont particularly want to go through buyandsell or something similiar so recommendations please...

peasant

There are two breeders for each breed advertising here: www.irishdogs.ie. Sound them out, find out if they're any good.

But read this first:
http://www.irishdogs.ie/Breeders/Omerta.htm

Good luck !

Lafortezza

My parents have had 2 Jack Russells over the past few years. They're great little dogs with amazing personalitys, very affectionate, don't need a huge amount of excercise.
They're also good watch dogs in the loud and barking sense. A JR would also be alot cheaper to buy than most other terrier breeds.

Only thing is that they need to be trained very very well. They can be quite snappy and not that great with children if their training is neglected.