35 Nigerians deported on flight to Lagos

Drapper

TomF wrote:

My other experience was first-hand. I was next in line at a Lidl's in Galway and there was a young woman behind me with a cartful of groceries. Two Nigerian men came up and stood behind me. I looked at them and told them the young woman was next after me, and they should go to the rear of the line. One of them said, "No problem, man." I repeated what I said, and he repeated what he said, and I then thought he meant that he was not going to budge the line. As my turn was next, I moved along and heard the woman and the man speaking and thought she said he could go-ahead. My younger daughter, who was with me in the line, told me in the car that the woman was actually saying "If you had asked me, I would have told you to go ahead, but you didn't even ask." The two men did cut in front of her after all, and I hope they are both sunning themselves now someplace in Nigeria.

How did you know they were Nigerian?

Drapper

MrPudding wrote:

Myself and my girlfriend had a personal experience with a Nigerian man. When she was pregnant with our first child we went for one of her pre-natal appointments. The docter was a huge Nigerian guy called Dr Obi (yes, like in Star Wars.) He was very good and my GF requested him for all her appointments from that point on.

What does this prove? Absolutly nothing, a bit like TomF's post.

MrP

Well said........... my partner is Korean and she gets the Chinese chants all the time..... eventhough the Korean h8 the Chinese more than the Irish do !!! hehehehhe

Alannis Morisette:- Isn't it ironic.............. don't you think?

GuanYin

Drapper wrote:

Well said........... my partner is Korean and she gets the Chinese chants all the time..... eventhough the Korean h8 the Chinese more than the Irish do !!! hehehehhe

Alannis Morisette:- Isn't it ironic.............. don't you think?

My gf was asked if she spoke "asian" once.

As to my point earlier. If you were to base world geographical borders on the Irish mentality the world would consist of America, Ireland, Europe (because, ya know, Ireland doesn't seem to be in Europe :rolleyes:) Nigeria, China and Australia.

Imposter

Drapper wrote:

Not all Nigerians are bad ............. and word "legal" in the irish legal system is a joke ! Why target one race? nation?

I never mentioned Nigerians. What I meant is that failed asylum seekers should be deported. There is oppurtunities and possibilities for legal migrants to work, but the minute these people's asylum applications were refused they are illegal immigrants and are not entitled to work or live in Ireland.

Drapper

psi wrote:

My gf was asked if she spoke "asian" once.

As to my point earlier. If you were to base world geographical borders on the Irish mentality the world would consist of America, Ireland, Europe (because, ya know, Ireland doesn't seem to be in Europe :rolleyes:) Nigeria, China and Australia.

My G/f was asked where she was from .............. answered Korea........ and one Irish person said Ohhh I love Curry (an indian dish)!! and all that Chinese food ......... I'd love to go to Thialand and see it ........... the people are lovely.......hehheheh

neuro-praxis

I know that not everyone who applies for asylum should receive it, but there is far more going on behind the scenes here than we realise.

There are actually dozens of "unaccompanied minors" here, living without families, in hostels, going to school etc. I actually personally know the young man who was about to sit his Leaving Certificate (from gospel choir). He had nothing to go home to - no parents, no home, nothing.

On the other hand, I believe he may have lied to the the authorities and said he was from the Congo - thinking that this would increase his chances and not realising that the staff in the asylum offices speak Congalese and various other African languages and are well aware of such lies.

These children are giving their passports to people-traffickers as payment for getting shipped here, and are being advised by I'm not sure who to lie about their homeland.

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him. There needs to be a full examination of the facts where these asylum seekers are concerned and I feel it's better to be compassionate than dismissive as a general rule.

Imposter

neuro-praxis wrote:

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him. There needs to be a full examination of the facts where these asylum seekers are concerned and I feel it's better to be compassionate than dismissive as a general rule.

I agree with this. Are you saying that the asylum process doesn't deal with such things and deports them too soon or without getting all the facts? What if the child won't tell the truth for whatever reason?

uberwolf

IMO the process currently takes far too long. People shouldn't be allowed integrate into society if they may be taken away from it again.
However I've no qualms about people having been determined to be in the country under illegal pretences to be removed from it. And teh conspiracy theorists really ought to consider the scale of the inevitable publicity which occurs around these incidents. - surely there's nothing to be gained in this respect by flying them out early or late.

GuanYin

neuro-praxis wrote:

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him. There needs to be a full examination of the facts where these asylum seekers are concerned and I feel it's better to be compassionate than dismissive as a general rule.

I agree 100%

That the first sign of the apololypse, right?

I'd still like to see the person who signed the deportation order for that kid, named and shamed. And fired.

bonkey

TomF wrote:

<two anecdotes about Nigerians>

Thats amazing...I know someone who was run down as well, only in this case they never caught the driver. My run-down mate did give the police a description of the white guy who was driving, as well as smoe details about the case, so I'm amazed they never found out who did it. Can't be that many Nigerians in Ireland.

I've also had Irish people cut in front of me in a queue. I wonder should we lock them up? After all, if its good for you that queue-jumping Nigerians are deported, surely we should deal with our own queue-jumpers as harshly. Or maybe they were white Nigerians faking an Irish accent. Or maybe Nigerians jump queues in a particularly harsh way?

All such logic is, incidentally, ridiculously flawed. It assumes that you notice all the people around you all of the time, and are aware of how many of what nationality cause problems, and how many simlpy get on with their lives quietly and leave you entirely alone.

Also, unless you'd like to tell us that you've never experienced (or heard of) people of any nationality other than Nigerian doing the actions you've described, and that the number of actual occurrences are low enough that its statistically valid to draw a conclusion from a single sample, then your "logic" would seem to be rapidly heading towards what many would consider bigotry.

The only two Ukrainian people I've ever met were both fantastic looking blonde women. Can I conclude from this that Ukraine is, in fact, peopled entirely (or even significantly) by naturally-blonde good-looking women?

If I can't, then consider that you just more or less used the same logic to reach (or at least support) a similar conclusion.

jc

GuanYin

Ah bonkey

I notice that the "Nelly is a pink elephant, therefore all elephants are pink" line of reasoning is quite rife among our more xenophobic posters.

Like I said, somebody show me stats to say that the percentage of convictions in the IRish nigerian population is higher than the percentage convictions in all other populations in IReland please.

Thorbar

I haven't read up enough about this to make a decision on whether its right or wrong for the Irish government to be deporting these people. Having said that I really can't see any way in which its right to be dragging a kid on to a plane the middle who's suppose to be sitting his leaving in a few months.

Does anyone with more economic knowledge then myself have any idea on how much the man-hours to organise this deportation effort cost? And how much suppose damage would it be to the economy if they were simply given work permits and allowed to contribute to society? Just from a purely Ultilitarian point of view is the Irish economy losing or gaining from deporting these people?

por

Thorbar wrote:

Does anyone with more economic knowledge then myself have any idea on how much the man-hours to organise this deportation effort cost? And how much suppose damage would it be to the economy if they were simply given work permits and allowed to contribute to society?

Then you would be simply inviting anyone to come to ireland to work regardless of their skills or how they would contribute to the economy. What happens when thses people cannot \will not find work, do you give them welfare ?, do you house them in hostel ?, or do you send them back ?.

The solution is this
1. Speed up asylum process so people will either be allowed stay or sent back in a resaonable time period
2. Introduce a residency system based on a persons qualification\skills.

If some Nigerian or Chineese or Butaneese person manages to get into the country with going through the 2 processes above and overstays there visa (as Irish do in the US) well that is there problem and if they get caught they get sent back, (as Irish do in the US)

Sleepy

neuro-praxis wrote:

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him.

So he's been exploited by everyone, given a chance at asylum in Ireland, lied on his application and refused asylum for that reason and we've failed him?

As long as all 35 people had their due process I don't see any problem here at all.

I do agree however, that a properly funded and run immigration department is needed in this country and we're a long way from that.

sovtek

the_syco wrote:

Its only suprising when every African person I've talked to has said that Nigerians are dodgy.

Being general, I would imagine it has something to do with Nigeria being a hell hole for the average Nigerian.

ionapaul

sovtek wrote:

Being general, I would imagine it has something to do with Nigeria being a hell hole for the average Nigerian.

A classic on that very subject from our friends at the Onion:

http://ascc.artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/courses/306/nigeria_counterpoint.html

neuro-praxis

Sleepy wrote:

So he's been exploited by everyone, given a chance at asylum in Ireland, lied on his application and refused asylum for that reason and we've failed him?

Yes. He's an orphan - a child here utterly alone. Surely you don't expect children to have the

(a)wisdom
and
(b)moral standards

of adults?!

Try seeing this from a human perspective rather than from a purely economic one.

- - An interesting aside, by the way: something I have learned about Nigerian culture is that the higher your rank in society there, the more right you have to skip a queue. Sometimes you'll find Nigerian folks here hopping to the top of the queue as they always have done back home. It's not ignorance - it's a culturally ingrained habit.

uberwolf

neuro-praxis wrote:

It's not ignorance - it's a culturally ingrained habit.

it is ignorance, ignorance of Irish culture. which is an aside TBH.

On the topic of this individual child. It does seem unfortunate. However he was established to have been a lier. SO what part of his application was in anyway true? As far as anyone reviewing the case I'd imagine you'd have to presume it was all false.

I'd be nervous about allowing circumstances once here dictate our policy. If he's in the country then everything after that has to be in admissable. Otherwise there's be chaos. It is however an imperative that the process be sped up so that similar issues cann't arise in the future.

neuro-praxis

uberwolf wrote:

it is ignorance, ignorance of Irish culture. which is an aside TBH.

I quite obviously meant ignorance in terms of rudeness. They are not being rude, just unaware of Irish culture.

On the topic of this individual child. It does seem unfortunate. However he was established to have been a lier. SO what part of his application was in anyway true? As far as anyone reviewing the case I'd imagine you'd have to presume it was all false.

Number one. This was not established. This is what I think must have happened because of his particular situation. He would not be the only child who might have done this.

Number two. If you were actually reviewing the case you would have some sensitivity to the individuals involved and not simply reduce them to numbers and statistics. It is very, very understandable that a child (or an adult for that matter) would lie if it meant a livable, bearable life. Don't be
sanctimonious. There would be no question of assuming everything an unaccompanied child said was false.

I'd be nervous about allowing circumstances once here dictate our policy. If he's in the country then everything after that has to be in admissable. Otherwise there's be chaos. It is however an imperative that the process be sped up so that similar issues cann't arise in the future.

Of course you are nervous. It would be terrible if these asylum seekers actually got jobs in MacDonalds and moved next door to you.

What should actually be happening is they should not be on social welfare at all, but should be filling all those jobs that no Irish people are willing to do and getting integrated into the community and educated and Irish-ized.

As it is, most of them are living in places like Mosney with the sword of Damocles hanging over them.

Victor

mycroft wrote:

Any half decent law firm has a contact number you can use day or night.

If you can get to a phone.

I live just around the corner from the Nigeria embassy in Dublin I noticed alot of activity outside the embassy, (a crowd of about two dozen, security, notice put on the door) just yesterday(monday).

Its not uncommon. I was actually walking down Leeson Park yesterday and asked by a black man (I suspect him of being Nigeran, but who knows, I've been in the South African Embassy) where the Nigeran Embassy was. I said "about 200 metres that way, you will see lots of Nigereans outside". Happily he went on his way.

I had also just passed the Indian Embassy, but the people outside that were pasty-white looking Mayo women.

Pass the American Embassy and you will see a nice long line down the street.

GuanYin

neuro-praxis wrote:

Of course you are nervous. It would be terrible if these asylum seekers actually got jobs in MacDonalds and moved next door to you. .

You're well out of order here.

Uberwolf made no such indication and quite frankly, waving a big red racist flag at anyone who tries to have a debate with you doesn't give you any credability.

The Corinthian

neuro-praxis wrote:

Yes. He's an orphan - a child here utterly alone. Surely you don't expect children to have the

(a)wisdom
and
(b)moral standards

of adults?!

Even if children do not have the same wisdom or moral standards of adults, that does not give them a carte blache to behave like sociopaths in society - just ask Jamie Bolger.

And in this case, we’re not discussing an eight year old, by someone most likely in and around 17 (I’m sure you can verify or correct), given he was in the process of doing an Irish Leaving Cert.

Try seeing this from a human perspective rather than from a purely economic one.

The individuals who were deported were as a result of fraudulent entry into this country. An application for asylum is quite specific and does not include “my country is a shithole and I want to make a new life in your one”. As a result many economic migrants will lie about their origins and history, and if found out will be deported.

That’s the law - whether entry to Ireland should be liberalized or not is the correct question and not “OMG!!! They’re deporting innocent little orphans!!!”.

It's not ignorance - it's a culturally ingrained habit.

That may explain it, but it does not excuse it. One may argue that female circumcision or even slavery is a culturally ingrained habit (and in parts of Africa they are), but that does not mean that we should accept such ‘habits’.

Third_Echelon

sovtek wrote:

I know from living in Africa that it isn't in their culture to queue.
I also know from my German in laws that it isn't in their's either.

Well if you want to come and live in a country you should learn to respect and adhere to the culture and customs of that country.

Expecting to hop queues just because you did it back in Africa is just pure ignorance..

I agree that we definitely need a government department setup specifically for asylum seeker applications etc... The cases are taking too long to get through and in most cases giving the applicant a false sense of belonging to a place, when in fact as these 35 have found out, they are on a plane back to where they came from without a lot of warning. Its not fair on the person or Ireland for that matter...

If your application doesn't succeed there is absolutely nothing wrong with being deported.

Drapper

Third_Echelon wrote:

Well if you want to come and live in a country you should learn to respect and adhere to the culture and customs of that country.

Expecting to hop queues just because you did it back in Africa is just pure ignorance..

I agree that we definitely need a government department setup specifically for asylum seeker applications etc... The cases are taking too long to get through and in most cases giving the applicant a false sense of belonging to a place, when in fact as these 35 have found out, they are on a plane back to where they came from without a lot of warning. Its not fair on the person or Ireland for that matter...

If your application doesn't succeed there is absolutely nothing wrong with being deported.

Culture smulture.............. tell me something cultural about ireland !!

Third_Echelon

Drapper wrote:

Culture smulture.............. tell me something cultural about ireland !!

When you want to integrate and become a citizen of another country you have to make the effort... not bothering is just ignorant

As the saying goes, 'When in Rome....'

Drapper

Third_Echelon wrote:

When you want to integrate and become a citizen of another country you have to make the effort... not bothering is just ignorant

As the saying goes, 'When in Rome....'

I disagree............ why should they do like the Roman when the Romans dont have any respect?

I respect my foreign asian and african friends and the way they behave..... they are NOT irish so why should they act like us?

Man integration or inclusion ? I prefare inclusion and acceptance......

AngelofFire

Why are people protesting? They failed in their quest for asylum and they are being deported! Or do you know something that the media doesn't?

Just to clarify that one of these people being deported is a nigerian whos been here for five years and is due to sit his leaving cert. According to RARs Rossanna Flynn this guy is being sent on a plane to lagos, he has no money and no parents.

There are cetain cases which don`t qualify for assylum such as FGM a horrific practice.

Drapper

AngelofFire wrote:

Just to clarify that one of these people being deported is a nigerian whos been here for five years and is due to sit his leaving cert. According to RARs Rossanna Flynn this guy is being sent on a plane to lagos, he has no money and no parents.

There are cetain cases which don`t qualify for assylum such as FGM a horrific practice.

that is terrible........... think if it was your kid?

Third_Echelon

Drapper wrote:

I disagree............ why should they do like the Roman when the Romans dont have any respect?

I respect my foreign asian and african friends and the way they behave..... they are NOT irish so why should they act like us?

Man integration or inclusion ? I prefare inclusion and acceptance......

Im not saying that they have to become "Irish" or act like us. What im saying is that they have to be respectful of the ways things are done in Ireland. You just cant come to a country and expect things to be done the same way as at home.

Look at the situation in the netherlands with the muslims. They have become ghettoised and look what that led to with the van gogh case.

Anybody coming into the netherlands now has to take a 'dutch test' on all things dutch. General knowledge etc.
After a year of living there you take another test and if you pass you stay. I think its a good idea.... If you want to live in my country you have to respect my culture and tradition. You dont have to honour them, but you have to respect them.

Drapper

Third_Echelon wrote:

Im not saying that they have to become "Irish" or act like us. What im saying is that they have to be respectful of the ways things are done in Ireland. You just cant come to a country and expect things to be done the same way as at home.

Look at the situation in the netherlands with the muslims. They have become ghettoised and look what that led to with the van gogh case.

Anybody coming into the netherlands now has to take a 'dutch test' on all things dutch. General knowledge etc.
After a year of living there you take another test and if you pass you stay. I think its a good idea.... If you want to live in my country you have to respect my culture and tradition. You dont have to honour them, but you have to respect them.

Agreed, but social integration is not top of the govs agenda !!!

Sure the Vikings, the Normans and the French did it here long long ago???

:-)