35 Nigerians deported on flight to Lagos

Wibbs

I also agree with Third_Echelon. Anybody who moves to another country should learn and respect the cultural norms of that country, while keeping their own culture alive. That should apply to everyone regardless of country of origin or destination.

An extreme example would be if I moved to an Islamic state. I would have little choice in adhering to their cultural norms. Try walking down a street wearing a crucifix or drinking a beer in Saudi Arabia and see how far that gets you. I might not like or agree with the restrictions but it's good manners to respect the society at large you choose to live in.

In the more liberal west we are generally more tolerant of such differences. In law at least. We shouldn't be scared of expecting the freedoms we take for granted to be respected by others.

Anyway, a lot of this has been covered in this Humanities thread. Don't let the title put you off. Among the usual dubious responses some good points were made on both sides of the argument.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=233477

Fanny Cradock

Third_Echelon wrote:

Look at the situation in the netherlands with the muslims. They have become ghettoised and look what that led to with the van gogh case.

the guy who killed van gogh was mentally disturbed. its not right to infer that he did this for any other reason then he was mad.

as for the reasoning behind posting a thread specifically about a few bad nigerians - if its not insidiously racist, then it's providing a platform form for racists to bitch and giving them the opportunity to stir the ****.

Guy:Incognito

neuro-praxis wrote:

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him. There needs to be a full examination of the facts where these asylum seekers are concerned and I feel it's better to be compassionate than dismissive as a general rule.

WE havnt failed him, his own country has. The law doesnt only apply to people over 18, illegal is illegal. For that matter evryone in a poorer country can just ship their kids over here knowing they wont be deported. What do we do with thousands of orphans?

Guy:Incognito

neuro-praxis wrote:

- - An interesting aside, by the way: something I have learned about Nigerian culture is that the higher your rank in society there, the more right you have to skip a queue. Sometimes you'll find Nigerian folks here hopping to the top of the queue as they always have done back home. It's not ignorance - it's a culturally ingrained habit.

Thats like saying that we should all be speaking nigerian (or whatever language they speak, dont know myself). Its up to them to integrate into our society not us to change everything to suit a minority.

Wibbs

Fanny Cradock wrote:

the guy who killed van gogh was mentally disturbed. its not right to infer that he did this for any other reason then he was mad.

as for the reasoning behind posting a thread specifically about a few bad nigerians - if its not insidiously racist, then it's providing a platform form for racists to bitch and giving them the opportunity to stir the ****.

Where did you get the idea that the guy who killed van gogh was mentally disturbed? So it's not right to infer anything beyond that? He was vulnerable yes, but his conversion to radical Islam had a fair part to play in van gogh's death.

Background and fallout from the case;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3974179.stm

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109523/

Have the thousands of death threats recieved by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others of her ilk all come from mentally disturbed people?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3322399.stm

My reasons for posting the link to the Humanities forum was mainly to point out that some of this ground with regard to Nigerians has been covered already. Nothing more.

Even if it had provided a platform for the less informed it still provided some debate. Some of it useful IMO. Isn't that the point of debate?

TomF

I knew the hit-and-runner was Nigerian because my son's friend was told that by the Gardai. Sorry it has to be third-hand.

I knew the line jumper was Nigerian because his current blonde, pregnant girlfriend (not his wife-he left them all back in Nigeria) shouted at him in the parking lot: "Get your lazy Nigerian a** over here with those pickles before I whomps you up alongside your ugly Nigerian puss with this tire-iron!"

Reyman

Lads - Nigerians are the greatest chancers & gangsters on earth and the less of them we have around here the better.
I don't envy the Guards dealing with them.

By the way I'm not talking off the top of my head - I've lived there - take it from me they're lethal. Ask any Nigerian himself!

therecklessone

TomF wrote:

I knew the line jumper was Nigerian because his current blonde, pregnant girlfriend (not his wife-he left them all back in Nigeria)

You know this how?

TomF

I knew she was blonde and pregnant by looking at her. Granted, she may have been a bottle-blonde. That she was his girlfriend and not his wife was obvious because they are living in modern Ireland. That he had multiple wives in Nigeria is, perhaps, an unfounded assumption on my part. Maybe he only has one there.

simu

TomF wrote:

"Get your lazy Nigerian a** over here with those pickles before I whomps you up alongside your ugly Nigerian puss with this tire-iron!"

That dialogue sounds inauthentic somehow, or was the wife American?

/Wonders where all the politics went to

Captain Trips

I just did a search on GoHop for flights from Dublin to Lagos. In June, leaving on a Saturday and back 2 weeks later. Flights seem to be all through Heathrow, Frankfurt or Charles de Gaulle.

so ----> 1. No direct flights from Dublin so it must link with a suitable Lagos flight by another carrier.

Flights depart either in morning or evening time - roughly 12 hrs gap. For example, the BA flight leaves Dublin at 0640 to arrive Heathrow 0810, and there is a 4 hr wait for the 12pm flight to Lagos. On the way back, the Lagos --> Heathrow flight leaves Lagos at 2335hrs! OMG!!

so ----> 2. There are only certain flights per day and only from certain areas. It's a long haul trip and your choice is leaving at nightime to arrive next morning, or leave in morning to arrive late in the evening. For example the midday flight options from the airports all arrive in mid evening, around 7pm.

Unless I'm ver much mistaken, the gardai don't just leave them at the airport - they would need to liaise with local police. If someone was being brought to Ireland, wouldn't it be STUPID to have them arrive at 7pm. Yes, it WOULD.

So in summary, no:
(i) it isn't so that they want to avoid journalists. Are journalist now the keeper of moral rights and wrongs? No ****ing chance mate.
(ii) no "lawyer" works like that. You think that an asylum seeker can afford a 24/7 legal retainer? If they can, they are no asylum seeker, for sure. Get a grip on reality - this isn't TJ Hooker.
(iii) this isn't racist it's the ****ing law. You come, you claim asylum: some claims are found valid some are not. Our country, our judges decide.

This post is simply to rebutt the conspiracy theories that it's the fricking Kristalnacht SS or something.

dahamsta

Captain Trips wrote:

I just did a search on GoHop for flights from Dublin to Lagos.

Is this in relation to the deportation? Didn't it say in the article that it was a chartered flight?

adam

Captain Trips

neuro-praxis wrote:

- - An interesting aside, by the way: something I have learned about Nigerian culture is that the higher your rank in society there, the more right you have to skip a queue.

As an interesting aside to Irish culture, the higher your rank in society, the more likely any queue skipping will result in name-calling and jibing with tribunals and inquests. Because in Ireland, we don't like people who presume to be "higher rank in society". I am glad of this. (At least that's what I see in Ireland).

Sometimes, it even gets to begrudgery.

Captain Trips

dahamsta wrote:

Is this in relation to the depotation? Didn't it say in the article that it was a chartered flight?

adam

Missed that bit, sorry.

So it would be a 9 hr flight direct therefore roughly. Leave at midnight and sleep through the night and arrive in the morning. That's what everyone would want on such a flight is it not?

Or leave in the morning at 9 or 10? Spend all day in the sun in a plane? Awake? Arrive at evening time when shops are shutting?

the_syco

psi wrote:

Ah bonkey

I notice that the "Nelly is a pink elephant, therefore all elephants are pink" line of reasoning is quite rife among our more xenophobic posters.

Like I said, somebody show me stats to say that the percentage of convictions in the IRish nigerian population is higher than the percentage convictions in all other populations in IReland please.

Thought elephants were gray :rolleyes:

Anyhoo's, I don't know why only 35 Nigerians were deported. Is it because they are on a non-stop trip to Nigeria, or because only Nigerians are being deported this month. i'm sure there are lots more waiting to be deported.

neuro-praxis wrote:

Of course you are nervous. It would be terrible if these asylum seekers actually got jobs in MacDonalds and moved next door to you.

What should actually be happening is they should not be on social welfare at all, but should be filling all those jobs that no Irish people are willing to do and getting integrated into the community and educated and Irish-ized.

As it is, most of them are living in places like Mosney with the sword of Damocles hanging over them.

Its sad really. I've yet to see one asylum seeker to take in our culture. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. They don't talk English. You want us to like you? Talk english. Looking at the Chinese, Pakistani's, African's (I sorry; I don't know the pural of more than African) who I've worked with; they have all learned English, and they agree to our laws.

As for the jobs thing; why should they be allowed? Hmm? Give me one good reaon. I know of Chinese, (one) Korean, & Pakistani who went through the process, to get a job. Some of the Chinese go through the process to what? To get a job in Mc Dee's. So why the f*ck should some f*cking scumbag, after failing in his or her asylum application, automatically get a work permit, after lying to get it?

It's not ignorance - it's a culturally ingrained habit.

Honour killings are alright in some countries. If the woman flirts with another man that is not her boyfriend/husband, she can be killed by the boyfriend, to "keep his honour". I couldn't give a flying f*ck if its a "culturally ingrained habit". Its wrong.

mycroft

TomF wrote:

I knew she was blonde and pregnant by looking at her. Granted, she may have been a bottle-blonde. That she was his girlfriend and not his wife was obvious because they are living in modern Ireland. That he had multiple wives in Nigeria is, perhaps, an unfounded assumption on my part. Maybe he only has one there.

Big up to Tom for actually responding a couple of times on thread, honestly your talent for starting a thread in politics and then buggering off without a response, why it's almost like a nigerian hit and run.

But I swear this was a new low. Dozens of hit and runs occured in this country before we could find nigeria on a map, and I'm moderately certain that throughout history we had rude people for decades, if not more. I mean c'mon st patrick came here and we made him a slave though in fairness we brought him here and forced him to work for no wages, the nigerians did come here, take our jobs/women/place in the Q. I swear 1300 years ago you'd have been outside a mud hut, going "Bloody christians coming here, taking our jobs, our religion, and i ask ye, i bloody ask ye have any of yis seen a snake for the last while? WELL HAVE YIS? I swear those welsh ****ers all to blaim, and y'know ye just know they can get any hut you like thanks to that viking/norman pact, I swear it's like no celt can be himself in his own country.

I passed by the Nigerian embassy tonight there was a crowd outside the embassy, and the windows with curtains open it was obvious the embassy was full and their were meetings going on.

I'm sceptical to believe this was a community of

the greatest chancers & gangsters on earth

They'd not have been there if this wasn't a community worried about the well being of some of there own.

Roisin Dubh

billy the squid wrote:

why do they carry out these deportations in the middle of the night? is there a problem with getting a flight slot during the day or is it to prevent anyone getting in contact with their lawyers or what?

It is only 35 people. Considering that my criterion for judging whether you are a genuine asylum-seeker or not requires the test of country of origin being unsafe and the EU country where asylum is claimed being the first port of call, I have little sympathy for the deportees, other than sympathy that they come from a poor country. Don't blame them for wanting to come here, but the law is the law. They were safe in France or Spain werent they?

TomF

TomF wrote:

I knew the hit-and-runner was Nigerian because my son's friend was told that by the Gardai. Sorry it has to be third-hand.

I knew the line jumper was Nigerian because his current blonde, pregnant girlfriend (not his wife-he left them all back in Nigeria) shouted at him in the parking lot: "Get your lazy Nigerian a** over here with those pickles before I whomps you up alongside your ugly Nigerian puss with this tire-iron!"

Tom F do you seriously expect us to believe this rubbish??
You are skating on a very thin film of ice at the moment with such comments and below that ice is a sea of bannage.
I suggest you return to dry land immediately and cease such ignorant outbursts or you will be down there viewing the rest of us up here on more solid ice skating[read: posting] away to our hearts content while you remain out in the cold water.
Do you understand?

billy the squid

Roisin Dubh wrote:

It is only 35 people. Considering that my criterion for judging whether you are a genuine asylum-seeker or not requires the test of country of origin being unsafe and the EU country where asylum is claimed being the first port of call, I have little sympathy for the deportees, other than sympathy that they come from a poor country. Don't blame them for wanting to come here, but the law is the law. They were safe in France or Spain werent they?

as interesting as that might be, one questions

how is that relevent to why they are shipped out in the middle of the night?

Roisin Dubh

billy the squid wrote:

as interesting as that might be, one questions

how is that relevent to why they are shipped out in the middle of the night?

Because if they were given forewarning they might scram to escape deportation.

billy the squid

who said anything about forewarning, this operation could have been carried out during the day or in the morning without forewarning.

you dont see the guards raiding houses looking for drug dealers at 12 am.

anyway, whether or not you have sympathy with deportees is still irrelevent to why they should be shifted at midnight.

what i really want to know is why you quoted me before your party political broadcast. my post had nothing to do with your comments.

The Corinthian

billy the squid wrote:

who said anything about forewarning, this operation could have been carried out during the day or in the morning without forewarning.

Of course it could, but would they be found at home in the first place? That’s why many raids are often carried out on Sunday nights / mornings, as it’s the most likely time to catch people in their homes.

Additionally, I’m surprised that no one suggested that the timing might have been connected to the availability of a cheap charter flight to Lagos.

therecklessone

TomF wrote:

I knew she was blonde and pregnant by looking at her. Granted, she may have been a bottle-blonde. That she was his girlfriend and not his wife was obvious because they are living in modern Ireland. That he had multiple wives in Nigeria is, perhaps, an unfounded assumption on my part. Maybe he only has one there.

Thanks for the smart arse reply, but it was just the last part I needed clarified.

So you made it up. Thats grand so. Talking out your ar*e again.

therecklessone

Roisin Dubh 2004 wrote:

Considering that my criterion for judging whether you are a genuine asylum-seeker or not requires the test of country of origin being unsafe and the EU country where asylum is claimed being the first port of call, I have little sympathy for the deportees,

And if there was any doubt that you are arcadegame2004, its just disappeared...

Roisin Dubh

therecklessone wrote:

And if there was any doubt that you are arcadegame2004, its just disappeared...

Oh this again! I have not used the name Arcadegame2004 before. Think as you please. Seems we disagree on a lot of things. I think you'll find that more than one person supports tougher immigration policies.

Originally posted by Billy the Squid
what i really want to know is why you quoted me before your party political broadcast. my post had nothing to do with your comments.

Why not? Don't see anything in the rules forbidding it. If there was, then debates would become 2 person affairs.

therecklessone

Roisin Dubh wrote:

Oh this again! I have not used the name Arcadegame2004 before. Think as you please. Seems we disagree on a lot of things. I think you'll find that more than one person supports tougher immigration policies.

You forgot to mention the Citizenship Referendum and its related opinion polls proving that you speak for the Irish people AG...

billy the squid

The Corinthian wrote:

Of course it could, but would they be found at home in the first place? That’s why many raids are often carried out on Sunday nights / mornings, as it’s the most likely time to catch people in their homes.

Additionally, I’m surprised that no one suggested that the timing might have been connected to the availability of a cheap charter flight to Lagos.

I'm sure that there is some logic behind these midnight flights, whether it be the fact that they would like to arrive in lagos during daylight or whatever it might be.

it just seems very clandestine to be doing it in the middle of the night. in order to do this would they not have to be arrested several hours before hand how long would it take to gather thirty-five people probably living in different locations.

Roisin Dubh

billy the squid wrote:

I'm sure that there is some logic behind these midnight flights, whether it be the fact that they would like to arrive in lagos during daylight or whatever it might be.

it just seems very clandestine to be doing it in the middle of the night. in order to do this would they not have to be arrested several hours before hand how long would it take to gather thirty-five people probably living in different locations.

Well some of them came into this state via clandestine ways, so maybe its fitting for them to go out that way.

billy the squid

Roisin Dubh wrote:

Well some of them came into this state via clandestine ways, so maybe its fitting for them to go out that way.

translation : lets treat them like **** because thats all they are.

these people have been described by the media as asylum seekers, they have presented themselves to the relevent authorities and applied for asylum, how is that being clandestine?

Roisin Dubh

billy the squid wrote:

translation : lets treat them like **** because thats all they are.

these people have been described by the media as asylum seekers, they have presented themselves to the relevent authorities and applied for asylum, how is that being clandestine?

The relevant authorities are those of the first EU state they enter, or should be. The fact that they come here and pretend that they need to stay in Ireland (as opposed to an earlier EU country of entry) or else will lose their lives or be tortured, is clandestine in that it seeks to hide the truth.

Being smuggled across the NI border in the back of a truck or car is clandestine, not to mention unnecessary.