35 Nigerians deported on flight to Lagos

MadsL

Roisin Dubh has been banned for being a duplicate account.

Had a feeling that 'she' wasn't a 27 yr old model....

Care to share your findings Gandalf?? AG perhaps?

Zombrex

pickarooney wrote:

Just because you're being "nice" doesn't stop this being racist drivel.

It is nothing to do with "race" .. it is to do with Dublin skangers and scumbags, and the fecking place is full of them. I got kick for no bloody reason at skyfest last night, a kid was just running around kicking people while his parents were too busy having a fag

The idea that our culture should be "protected" from multicultural influence is ridiculous! Let the Chinese and Africans come, the more the merrier, they might teach us how to be a bit more civilised and polite society.

Zombrex

MadsL wrote:

Had a feeling that 'she' wasn't a 27 yr old model....

Suddenly I feel all dirty ... :eek:

the_syco

Wicknight wrote:

We are a grossly under populated country (thank you very much Mr. Famine), but we still complain about taking on foreigners.

Quick question; As Australia is a large country, shouldn't they also be able to take in large amounts of asylum seekers? Nope. WHy? Lots of Australia is uninhabitable desert. Now, although Ireland is no desert, there isn't alot of space to put the asylum seekers.

gandalf wrote:

Roisin Dubh has been banned for being a duplicate account.

Any chance of saying who it is?

ArthurDent

the_syco wrote:

Quick question; As Australia is a large country, shouldn't they also be able to take in large amounts of asylum seekers? Nope. WHy? Lots of Australia is uninhabitable desert. Now, although Ireland is no desert, there isn't alot of space to put the asylum seekers

I may be wrong but didn't Ireland have a population as large as 8,000,000 at one stage ie twice the density of now?

And why would the fact that there is "uninhabitable desert" mitigate against a large number of asylum seekers?

GuanYin

ArthurDent wrote:

I may be wrong but didn't Ireland have a population as large as 8,000,000 at one stage ie twice the density of now?

And why would the fact that there is "uninhabitable desert" mitigate against a large number of asylum seekers?

Yup, in pre-famine times, ie. when we didn't have the money or resources of today, Irelands population was in excess of 8 million.

Funny that I'd have to point that out to an Irish man (the syco). Perhaps its all the culture and history being drained away with immigration...... :rolleyes:

Lemming

MrPudding wrote:

As much as I would like to think there are all sorts of neferious reasons for the deportations taking place at night, I reckon it is simply about the money. Charter flights are cheaper in the middle of the night. All the other reasons put forward are probably just welcome, for the authorities that is, side effects of saving a few bob.

MrP

I mentioned earlier, and I'll elaborate on the night-time raids reasoning. Failed applicants were originally notified a couple of weeks in advance originally, but what started to happen was more and more of them were going on the run and hiding out with friends/relatives/insert word of choice elsewhere in the country (or possibly overseas) which meant that the Gardai needed to spend significant man-hours trying to hunt down these people. Man hours the gardai don't have, so nothing effective got done.

As pointed out by others, the raids take place at times deemed best to catch the intended target and prevent them going on the run.

It also removes those (thankfully) rare cases where failed applicants do insanly dangerous things. Ever wonder why the dept. of justice on stephens green has a metal detector now? After the guy who was refused, received his letter in the post one morning and ran barefoot and barechested out the door with a meat-cleaver and ran into the dept. of justice with it ... A rarity, but nonetheless a real prospect. Desperate people can be very dangerous.

Simple as that. No grand conspiracy.

The Corinthian

the_syco wrote:

Quick question; As Australia is a large country, shouldn't they also be able to take in large amounts of asylum seekers? Nope. WHy? Lots of Australia is uninhabitable desert. Now, although Ireland is no desert, there isn't alot of space to put the asylum seekers.

Good grief, that has to be the worst argument I've heard in ages.

Ireland is actually one of the least densely populated countries in Europe, ranking 42nd out of 56 European countries. So space is not an issue.

psi

psi wrote:

Yup, in pre-famine times, ie. when we didn't have the money or resources of today, Irelands population was in excess of 8 million.

We were emmigrating in droves though long after the famine and right up to about 1990 or so iirc(I dont remember the post famine years but I do have records of my fore bearers trips from Cork out to the states in the early 20th century and I have visited Ellis Island a couple of times)

Point being, I find all this anti immigration stuff a bit rich from quarters that might find the shoe on the other foot if this economy goes belly up again, which it might in circumstances where industries move to the far east because we're too expnsive labour wise and where new "intels" go to Eastern Europe in the new bigger E.U.
A rise in the fortunes of the German Economy and the ECB would raise interest rates by a couple of points which would be very painfull for the mortgages here and that is a likely enough event eventually.

ionapaul

Just to note: the population of the entire island of Ireland was approx. 8 million pre-famine (1841 census), whereas the current population figure bandied about (just over 4 million) is of the Republic of Ireland only. The current population of the island of Ireland is approx. 5.7 million. The west of Ireland is particularly depopulated in comparison to pre-famine times...lots of space for both immigrants and asylum seekers. Not many jobs, of course, but that shouldn't factor into housing for asylum seekers - housing them in Dublin is a bizarre move IMO, I know they want to be housed there, but as long as the taxpayer is footing the bill, I think the west of Ireland is the place, as long as suitable accommodation is sourced or built.

Lemming

Earthman wrote:

Point being, I find all this anti immigration stuff a bit rich from quarters that might find the shoe on the other foot if this economy goes belly up again,

I think that people are blurring the lines between anti-immigration (read racist), free-for-all immigration, and sanity.

I am pro-sane immigration policies. I am not of either the "burn 'em all" persuasion nor "the world is a beautiful place. lets hug and kiss and love each other as one big happy family" persusaion either.

*every* country requires some sort of immigration policy. Anyone who suggests otherwise isn't right in the head. According to figures I've seen from DoJ reports (admittedly a few years old now - circa 1999/2000), at the point of those reports being written some 85-95% of all asylum claims - I believe the exact figure was 94% but I can't recall for sure - processed had been found to be bogus. Claims are processed and assessed under the criteria laid down by the UN charter on refugees and not some quasi-racist conspiracy as I've heard from some quarters.

Pretty damning figure though.


My own stance is something like this:
If someone attempts to defraud the state by gaining illegal entry to the state then they should be deported. If someone gains entry legitimately, be it by work-visa or by successful asylum claim than by all means allow them entry post-haste.

Imposter

Imo it doesn't matter if there's room for them or not. Asylum laws are in place to deal with asylum seekers. If they don't succeed with their applications then these people are deported.

If Ireland wants to allow more immigrants all it needs to do is issue visas to those it wishes to let in, be that a certain number of people, people with certain qualifications or whatever criteria the government of the time think is important. If the general public dissagree with this then they can make their feelings known at the next election.

From reading some of the replies here some people seem to be suggesting letting in anyone who wants to come to Ireland. I assume anyone who wants that also wants to treat them fairly and give them the same rights and benifits as people currently here (irish or not). Can you see any problems this might cause?

GuanYin

Earthman wrote:

We were emmigrating in droves though long after the famine and right up to about 1990 or so iirc(I dont remember the post famine years but I do have records of my fore bearers trips from Cork out to the states in the early 20th century and I have visited Ellis Island a couple of times)

Well in fairness, we weren't emmigrating because of lack of space , as TC pointed out, we've got quite a bit of it. The point is the country is well capable of a population of 10 million without much stress on space. What *might* be an issue is infrastructure, especially transport, but then, if you have an extra 6 million people, you might find these things easier to build.

Point being, I find all this anti immigration stuff a bit rich from quarters that might find the shoe on the other foot if this economy goes belly up again, which it might in circumstances where industries move to the far east because we're too expnsive labour wise and where new "intels" go to Eastern Europe in the new bigger E.U.
A rise in the fortunes of the German Economy and the ECB would raise interest rates by a couple of points which would be very painfull for the mortgages here and that is a likely enough event eventually.

Yup, there was already a mini-exodus while the celtic tiger was having its teeth redone.

pickarooney

Wicknight wrote:

It is nothing to do with "race" .. it is to do with Dublin skangers and scumbags, and the fecking place is full of them. I got kick for no bloody reason at skyfest last night, a kid was just running around kicking people while his parents were too busy having a fag

The idea that our culture should be "protected" from multicultural influence is ridiculous! Let the Chinese and Africans come, the more the merrier, they might teach us how to be a bit more civilised and polite society.

And there's you completely missing the point, most likely deliberately. Assuming that Chinese/Africans/anyone are all nice, civilised and polite is racist.

Zombrex

pickarooney wrote:

And there's you completely missing the point, most likely deliberately. Assuming that Chinese/Africans/anyone are all nice, civilised and polite is racist.

I don't assume they are all "nice" ... 1/4 of the world population live in China, I am sure they are not all nice. It is a cultural thing, rather than anything to do with race. In my experience the Chinese people I have meet are respectful, hard working and polite. And i have meet quite a few. I am sure they arent all like that, but I question why we are afraid that the nice polite hardworking Chinese and Africans are going to erode our culture when not a week goes by that I don't get hassled by some dublin scumbags ... our culture could do with a little eroding imho.

Lemming

Wicknight wrote:

It is a cultural thing, rather than anything to do with race

That's funny - I would have it put down to manners rather than culture.

... but I question why we are afraid that the nice polite hardworking Chinese and Africans are going to erode our culture when not a week goes by that I don't get hassled by some dublin scumbags ... our culture could do with a little eroding imho.

Anyone who tries to argue an immigration platform (pro or anti) on grounds of "culture" needs a grasp of reality. Immigration control is based more around economic & security needs than any notion of "culture".

Zombrex

Lemming wrote:

That's funny - I would have it put down to manners rather than culture.

Well manners are a by product of culture. I am not saying Irish people aren't polite, or that all Chinese people are, only objecting to the idea that having chinese or african people in our culture is some how harmful. It could hardly make the worse any worse, and I am sure it would make it better.

Lemming wrote:

Anyone who tries to argue an immigration platform (pro or anti) on grounds of "culture" needs a grasp of reality. Immigration control is based more around economic & security needs than any notion of "culture".

Try telling that to the people who constantly post on Boards.ie about the "dangers" of multiculturalism and how it will destroy our native culture

Lemming

Wicknight wrote:

Try telling that to the people who constantly post on Boards.ie about the "dangers" of multiculturalism and how it will destroy our native culture

Allow me to reiterate what I said Wicknight

lemming wrote:

Anyone who tries to argue an immigration platform (pro or anti) on grounds of "culture" needs a grasp of reality.

I highlighted the relevant bit.

ArthurDent

Imposter wrote:

Imo it doesn't matter if there's room for them or not. Asylum laws are in place to deal with asylum seekers. If they don't succeed with their applications then these people are deported.

If Ireland wants to allow more immigrants all it needs to do is issue visas to those it wishes to let in, be that a certain number of people, people with certain qualifications or whatever criteria the government of the time think is important. If the general public dissagree with this then they can make their feelings known at the next election.

From reading some of the replies here some people seem to be suggesting letting in anyone who wants to come to Ireland. I assume anyone who wants that also wants to treat them fairly and give them the same rights and benifits as people currently here (irish or not). Can you see any problems this might cause?

I really fail to see how anyone could construe the arguments here to suggest that some people want an open door policy.
In case I'm wrong I'll nail my colours to the mast anyway:

I support a program whereby non-EU citizens who have skills in professions we have skill shortages in be allowed immigrate - I think if they live here and contribute to our society they should be entitled to exactly the same rights and benefits as people currently here, including citizenship and Irish passports for their children (but amn't going to start this argument up again).

I think we have a moral obligation towards asylum seekers and are obliged to grant refugee status to those that are deemed refugees. I think they should be allowed to work during this process.

I think the government need a kick up the a%*e to get them to process asylum applications quickly.

I have no problem with people who go through the asylum application and are deemed not to be entitled to refugee status being refused right to live here - however the method of repatriation of these people needs to be as humane and as efficient as possible.

I think the EU need to get their act together on asylum seekers nd each country should be assigned a percentage of the overall numbers coming to the EU on the basis of their GDP (yeah I know, never in a million years, but that's just the most equitable way of dealing with our moral obligation imo)

psi

psi wrote:

Well in fairness, we weren't emmigrating because of lack of space , as TC pointed out, we've got quite a bit of it.

Well strictly speaking, a lot of us were, my Gt Grandparents farm was too small and the rent was too high so it was a combination of space issues and economic issues there but I agree with your point on space,I was only wading in there with my own view, ie a personal puzzlement on how anyone can distinguish between people just because of race.
You can and as you know many countries do, make a distinguishment to coign a phrase between certain peoples worth to society when they are non nationals who arent assylum seekers and looking for work permits/residency or whatever.

Which leads me onto what Lemming was saying, yes of course we do need in my view an immigration control policy, whereby we accept a certain number in every year according to our needs economically.
Asylum should be a totally separate issue and department.

GuanYin

Earthman wrote:

Which leads me onto what Lemming was saying, yes of course we do need in my view an immigration control policy, whereby we accept a certain number in every year according to our needs economically.
Asylum should be a totally separate issue and department.

Well to be perfectly honest, at this stage anyone who posts in politics not knowing the difference between immigrants and asylum seekers should have a printout of every single post made clarifying the issue, stapled to their head.

Or at the very least, be banned for trolling.