Police in turkey beat womans rights march

mycroft

halkar wrote:

Gandalf,
I have put those links as I was asked to provide links.

Mycroft, are they not good enough for you? Why did you not comment on this with your caps on and bold?

Because the links were either irrelevant or coming from clearly biased sources. The turkish american assembly clearly has a pro turkish agenda. It's like citing a speech from the friends of Ireland in america, as proof of a Sinn Fein claim?

"Bullets don't have addresses, they have been warned" that is the mentality that went on for years. You should get the picture if not, take a look at here see if you feel weak.

You like the pretty pictures don't you. I cited a variety of human rights organisations who don't have pro or anti turkey agenda they've a human rights agenda and you dismiss them, and then provide an impressive collection of links from sites with a clear pro turkey agenda

Beleive what you want, I am not here to convince you of anything, sorry the topic went out of it's course but the original topic was about Kurds too and in Iraq. To answer your question "what would occur if the IRA kurds ceceded from the new Iraq state?" you should know better, it will not happen, nor Turkey, nor Iraqis nor Iran nor Syria will let that happen, world is messed up enough. My links were to show you the other side of the maddalion which you just don't want to see or hear. You have no idea about the region and people there other than what you read on the net.

So basically shut up I'm not arguing with you. But why would it happen that it would be messed up? I submit your posts have shown a clear racist attitude towards kurds, be they iraqi or turkish.

And I've my opinion, supported by information on the net, first hand opinion from one turkish kurd, 2nd hand opinion from two friends of mine who spent time in turkey with a human rights organisation, and documentaries and films. I've plenty of first hand reports, and information that can be coberated on the net.

You've got inneundo (Oclan's harem, going to support that bit, you tossed in?) and propaganda.

I am not going to waste my time with you looking for links, read about PKK and see who suported it for years, I guess that is ok for you?

Ah so basically my argument is weak, I can't support it.......

Well thats a can do point of view. :rolleyes:

halkar

Because the links were either irrelevant or coming from clearly biased sources. The turkish american assembly clearly has a pro turkish agenda. It's like citing a speech from the friends of Ireland in america, as proof of a Sinn Fein claim?

Links are all about PKK, I don't have to give you any links , they are easy to find. All of those crimes that commited in the links are admitted by them. It is nothing to do with pro Turkish agenda.

You like the pretty pictures don't you. I cited a variety of human rights organisations who don't have pro or anti turkey agenda they've a human rights agenda and you dismiss them, and then provide an impressive collection of links from sites with a clear pro turkey agenda

I don't like the pictures, I have grown up with them, I have seen them everyday on the tv and media. As I have asked you before how many of those crimes that made to European media for the last 10-20 years? How many times you have heard of PKK killing children?

Maybe you prefer pro PKK links? I am not dismissing anything and I have already admitted Turkey's human rights record is bad but I have also pointed out that their record is improving where you think this was due EUs pressure but it is not. It has only started to improve after Ocalan's capture and cease fire with PKK also with the lifting of martial law in east and south east of Turkey. I am also against Turkey Eu membership though not for the same reasons you might have.

I have given NI as example and to get the picture what has been going on for decades in Turkey asked you to imagine NI ten times worst. But no that is not a good comparision for you either.
Nothing is good enough for you I guess as you dismiss many of the changes in the country last few years while you still live in the past.

When I posted you the links about Greece, you don't want to know or do you think preventing freedom of religion is not an humans right issues? You said the links does not suggest that Greece is not allowing mosques to be built in Athens and yet you seem to miss this bit:

...
Plans to build an Islamic center and mosque - the first in Athens since Ottoman times - have stalled following opposition from local residents and the powerful Greek Orthodox Church.
Estimates of the number of Muslims in Athens vary considerably - from around 50,000 to 100,000. There are also an estimated 500,000 immigrants from Albania, which has a mixed Christian and Muslim population...

So how is that for a secular EU member state? I have also asked you if Turkey did some thing similiar what would the reaction be?

So basically shut up I'm not arguing with you. But why would it happen that it would be messed up? I submit your posts have shown a clear racist attitude towards kurds, be they iraqi or turkish.

Oh now I am racist, thank you but you have no clue about me so spare me of your insults. I don't and have never hated Kurds and never seen any Turk that hates Kurds and beleive me I have seen far more Kurds and Turks than you will ever in your life time. Turks does not hate Kurds, when was the last time you heard of racist march or activities in Turkey against Kurds or any other ethnic groups in Turkey? Beleive me if there was hate between two as I said earlier Turkey would have been in a big mess now. 20 million is not a small number.

I hate PKK, a terrorist organization which have killed thousands and ruined lives of hundreds of thousands. My links to you are about PKK not about Kurds.

Also the links about Iraq was not becasue I don't like Kurds, it was because not many people know that Iraq is not all about Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish. I gave you two links, one with Assyrians and one with Turkoman, the other sizeable ethnic minorities in Northern Iraq where Iraqi Kurds thinks that they are the only ones. If you have gone through the links you should note that most of them were not allowed to vote. All issues in Northern Iraq is far complicated then you think and it does not only involves Turkey and Iraq, it also involves Syria, Iran and all region. You asked in your first post so I don't think it was a diversion of the thread.

It's also worth pointing out that throwing up photos from Genoa the week after a court case started investigating senior officers behaviour during the school Diaz raid, shall we compare that to show trials of Kurdish leaders?

Nope, maybe not but lets compare this, at least Kurdish terrorist leaders are alive to get a trial. Unlike others, Turkey did not blast them in bits or invaded countries because they beleive they were supporting terrorism or flatten towns. I am not only talking about US, some EU countries also supported their actions and both you and I know who they are.

We have also seen both US and UK actions in Iraqi jails, they are both considered far democratic than Turkey in many people's minds.

And I've my opinion, supported by information on the net, first hand opinion from one turkish kurd, 2nd hand opinion from two friends of mine who spent time in turkey with a human rights organisation, and documentaries and films. I've plenty of first hand reports, and information that can be coberated on the net.

Plenty of first hand reports? From what? Net? your sources? One turkish kurd and 2nd hand opinion from two friends that might have been there for 2 weeks hardly make you an expert on the issues and what happened and what is happening in Turkey. Good that you can find all that stuff on the net, my sources are not only net, on a daily base from local tvs, media and friends both Turkish and Kurdish. I have yet to hear anything pro-Turkish from you.

You've got inneundo (Oclan's harem, going to support that bit, you tossed in?) and propaganda.

It is there, in the books of ex PKK members, if you don't know, maybe your reliable first hand opinion might help you. I'll describe Ocalan to you simply: "Bin Ladin X 10 ".

Was your post really about woman's protest in Turkey or about Kurdish issues there because you have a Kurdish friend and two other friends that was in Turkey?

There are more than 80 cities in Turkey where there were marches on the same day and there was no troubles except the one in Istanbul and it went all wrong, it is been investigated just like Diaz case which was far worst and was in Europe.

As I said before, I have yet to see any pro-Turkish comment from you, but you were quick enough to label me racist because I don't like PKK and their leaders and because I have given some links about their activities.

One last thing, please stop threating me with your "i'll report you to mods" nonsense as far as I am concerned I have stayed with your topic which included, Turkey, Iraq and Kurds, police violance and human rights both in EU and Turkey. If you don't like what you hear go stick you head back to the sand and continue living in the past.

I repeat again, we have yet to see World Cup in Germany next year with possible Germany, UK and Turkey in it.

gandalf

OK I asked nicely thread closed as its gone off topic. Halkar one more false step and I will ban you. If you want to start a new thread about the Kurds, PKK & Turkey then please, do not hijack another thread !