Demo on Saturday

Nietzschean

foxybrowne wrote:

Well lets get out there and discuss these issues. There will be no better place than at an public rally.
Forget about socialism, neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism and all the rest and think about whether or not you agree with whats going on in Iraq and Palestine.

A rally isn't for discussion, its to make a singular view well known..

Nietzschean

Barry Aldwell wrote:

It'd be the same troops with different hats tbh

As for this, the UN (i.e. france/germany) won't pass a resolution to such an effect, as we have seen already seen(i think it was brought up sometime last year about using UN peace keepers). And the case of US in different uniforms has only really happened on one occasion that i can recall off hand, being the korean war...

John

foxybrowne wrote:

think about whether or not you agree with whats going on in Iraq and Palestine.

Why one rally for both? They are two completely separate issues.

DrIndy

Remember the rules of 10's - its imprecise but accurate.....

For every one demonstrator, there are 10 people who support it, 100 people who are talking about it and 1000 people aware of it.

Thats what scared the bejesus out of the government at the first, huge antiwar demo........

Kevin_rc_ie

how many 10s dont support it?

John

a tithe of them

Crash

John2 wrote:

Why one rally for both? They are two completely separate issues.

yeah thats what you got to love - the people who organise these things tar a large number of political situations with the same brush while ignoring all the idiosyncracies of
the same situations. its that level of ignorance of the difference in how things occur that turns me off these things - i have my own views on a lot of this, parts of it would probably lead to very heated discussions, but i'm not gonna go to a rally to show my views when a large part of it is being sidetracked for points that i dont feel the same way about.

Andrew 83

Darth Bobo wrote:

Um what about the netherlands, italy, spain, uk, poland -- are they no longer in europe?

The big 2 to be anti-war were germany and france, they did it as much as a political muscle flexing as going along with public opinion. Bare in mind i did also say most.

And we can show our disapproval via voting, duh. If people actually all voted instead of having silly protests things might be different.


O and FYI before the war most of the biggest anti-war protests were in the US, who incase u didn't notice continued on regardless.

The public disapproval for the war led to the socialists making it a key election issue leading to their victory in the elections and Spain's withdrawal.

It looks like the same mihgt happen in Itlay last year with Prodi currently ahead in polls largely due to an anti-war stance.

If there was a decent opposition in the UK at the moment I think the UK would be another danger but not with the Conservatives' current state of affairs.

Protests make politicians make decisions and can lead to changes.

Nietzschean

Andrew 83 wrote:

The public disapproval for the war led to the socialists making it a key election issue leading to their victory in the elections and Spain's withdrawal.

Errr I seem to remember a certain train bombing that was largely responsible for that switch............

Kevin_rc_ie

if you say so.

Andrew 83

Darth Bobo wrote:

Errr I seem to remember a certain train bombing that was largely responsible for that switch............

The bombing was only a week before the election and although yes it probably got the Socialists more votes pulling out of Iraq had been high on the Socialists' campaigning all through the campaign.

Nietzschean

Andrew 83 wrote:

The bombing was only a week before the election and although yes it probably got the Socialists more votes pulling out of Iraq had been high on the Socialists' campaigning all through the campaign.

probally got them more? they had a land slide win as a result. The pull out was as a result of the bombing. The italians discussing a pull out is in response for the american's killing one of their agents.... I'm failing to see the imact of mass protesting in any country. We could look to america where bush who started the war was put back in power.

gom

Darth Bobo wrote:

Um what about the netherlands, italy, spain, uk, poland -- are they no longer in europe?

Hey Darth

Spain pulled its troops out of Iraq after the Socialists got in as promised.
Italy announced it was pulling its troops out in the next few months.
Poland has already stated that it would be leaving by the end of the year.

Both Spain and Italy made the decisins mainly on Public Pressure and Poland under increasing killings of its troops by the US.

While France and Germany did not support the war they still aloud the US to use bases in germany and france to launch attacks on Iraq.

You say voting is more important than protests. Thats fine then. If what you say is true FF would not have aloud the US military to use Shannon and Ireland would not be a member of a Nato organisation called the Partnership4Peace. P4P allows NATO members to use P4P countries for NATO activities such as training and shannon related activities.

Public opinion was shown in Ireland and FF/PDs said that they were against the war too... Politicans can lie. Especially FF TDs....

Besides Iraq it is important from the prospective of a student to show solidarity with the people of Palestine who are under occupation. Many of whom can not attend college due to an illegally built 6 metre high wall running through their town.

I have friends who visited both Israel and Palestine last January as part of a French fact finding mission for the PS/MJS. It is a lot more complicated than I used to believe but solidarity is important.
The people of Palestine have 3 large worries. The top worry is poverty. 2nd os the occupation. Keep that in mind

Nietzschean

Er Great speach gom.....


Now if you actually read this thread you might have noticed that my response was in regard to :

Andrew 83 wrote:

That's ridiculous, while the war still went ahead the amount of public dissatisfaction made a huge point and much of Europe ended up not joining the war effort. Even if Britain did, and if Ireland still allows the US planes through Shannon, it's better to show your disapproval and protest than just sit back and say 'no point it wont change anything'. thigns might not have been changed yet but if you don't try nothing ever will.

Which isn't true, the majority of military powers in europe did join in the war as i pointed out, I don't see how them removing their troups now is related to that point at all.

gom wrote:

Spain pulled its troops out of Iraq after the Socialists got in as promised.

I never said they didn't promise this, I pointed out their land slide victory was as a result of the madrid train bombing not public protests previously about the war. It may had an influence but i don't think anyone can deny this was the clinch factor of that vote.

gom wrote:

Italy announced it was pulling its troops out in the next few months.

I do believe i already pointed this out, your relevence? I said talking as i don't believe a specific date for full withdrawl has been set.

gom wrote:

Poland has already stated that it would be leaving by the end of the year.

Relevence?

gom wrote:

While France and Germany did not support the war they still aloud the US to use bases in germany and france to launch attacks on Iraq.

Firstly to the best of my knowledge most of the bases used in Germany are US bases anyway, and the US bases provide alot of income to their local area's so the German's don't want to see those gone(though i do believe they are being closed).

gom wrote:

If what you say is true FF would not have aloud the US military to use Shannon and Ireland would not be a member of a Nato organisation called the Partnership4Peace. P4P allows NATO members to use P4P countries for NATO activities such as training and shannon related activities.

How does that prove your point whatso ever? seems like a random rant to me about our neutrality(or lack of).

gom wrote:

Besides Iraq it is important from the prospective of a student to show solidarity with the people of Palestine who are under occupation

As i do believe John pointed out the situations of Iraq and Palestine are entirely different and should not be in the one protest, I would be against the Israeli occupation of Palestine and would consider supporting a rally against it, but certainly I wouldn't attend a rally saying US troops should pull out of Iraq.

O and i don't see your point about ranting on about the situation in palestine, you act as if the rest of us are uneducated here. I for one am quite well aware of the situation over there. I wouldn't claim to be an expert but your rant just seems like some way to justify your previously poorly supported points.

Time Magazine

Barry Aldwell wrote:

It'd be the same troops with different hats tbh

Nah, Blue-Rinsing is far different operation altogether.

Time Magazine

crash_000 wrote:

yeah thats what you got to love - the people who organise these things tar a large number of political situations with the same brush while ignoring all the idiosyncracies of the same situations.

I'm organising a mass protest against Terrorism, Plate-Techtonics and Brian Cowen!