IrelandOffline on Newstalk 21/03/05 12.30

damien · 21-03-2005 11:13am #1

A rep from IrelandOffline will be on the Damien Kiberd show today around 12.30

Send your comments to the show via the following media:
Email: damien@newstalk106.ie
Phone: 01 644 5113
Text: 086 6000 106

Every single comment is important, so don't hesitate, get your comments in.

jwt · 21-03-2005 12:26pm

Good luck

John

damien · 21-03-2005 12:52pm

*bump*

Tell Mr. Kiberd what you think about the table.

WizZard · 21-03-2005 1:38pm

Just listening now. Go Damien!

damien · 21-03-2005 1:45pm

Merci.

shinzon · 21-03-2005 1:48pm

Shin simply APPLAUDS

Way to go for ripping into mcredmond Damien, he hadnt a leg to stand on, a masterclass in blowing apart eircoms smoke and mirror propaganda piece by piece

Claps hands in glee

Shin

RE*AC*TOR · 21-03-2005 1:50pm

transcript / recording?

Praetorian · 21-03-2005 1:53pm

Please tell me someone recorded it

cgarvey · 21-03-2005 1:59pm

Praetorian wrote:

Please tell me someone recorded it

jaysus lads gimme a chance

RE*AC*TOR · 21-03-2005 2:00pm

no! no chances! we want instant gratification!

cgarvey · 21-03-2005 2:18pm

Rip is here (16kbps ~ 1.5MB) .. PM for lower bitrate, if required.

.cg

RE*AC*TOR · 21-03-2005 2:22pm

thanks

RE*AC*TOR · 21-03-2005 2:33pm

Well done Damien, would have liked if your final comment about the importance of upload speed was acknowledged.

viking · 21-03-2005 2:35pm

Bloody good work Damien!

bealtine · 21-03-2005 2:44pm

Poor ol' Dave sounded a bit "ruffled" imho.

Why let mere facts spoil a good rant?

Well done Damien

kasintahan · 21-03-2005 3:31pm

Dave McRedmond kicked ass.

Ireland Offline need to get someone who can match him point for point not have their own points crumble in the face of a little prodding from Eircom.

Round 1: eircom

jwt · 21-03-2005 3:46pm

Thanks for the offer

What dates are you available to do interviews and can we post your contact details in the media list?

John

eircomtribunal · 21-03-2005 3:54pm

Damien, that was excellent.

Again Comreg gave McRedmond the ammunition to mislead on Ireland's general Telecoms price level. In the latest Quarterly, to which McRedmond referred, they selectively and misleadingly took the one graph from the data prepared by the EU which shows Ireland with lower costs than EU average. The really important data about the total composite cost of telephony from the same EU data compilation is of course not shown by our regulator, because people would – rightly – start asking questions about the quality of same regulator.

Average monthly expenditure residential:

And for business:

P.

Praetorian · 21-03-2005 4:16pm

Kasintahan,

IrelandOffline always tell the truth. They consistently give facts and figures that are 100% correct. Eircom are liars desperately trying to hold onto their archaic monopoly. McRedmond conjures up statistics, figures and lies as well as Mandrake the magician. Eircom know that Joe Bloggs will accept their bullsh1t as gospel, and they are counting on it. IrelandOffline has time after time beaten Eircom point for point in the papers, on the radio and on TV. With our weak subservient regulator letting the tail wag the dog, IrelandOffline is clearly needed as much now as it ever was.

They are making a difference, and your pointless negativity isn’t helping anyone. It’s just wasting our time.

cgarvey · 21-03-2005 5:22pm

Ease up here guys .. the guy has a point to make.

/me takes off the cap..

In his defense I've had 2 comments from a friend who happened to be listening to it but isn't au fait with BB/telecoms/IoffL/etc.

Firstly "we" didn't have any answer to his implied point of "we have a report from an independant consulting company that says otherwise" (not quoting directly). (What can we say other than we trawled websites and consumers across all the countries ourselves; is that enough?.. I genuinely don't know, beacause I'm too biased now)

Secondly he kept playing on the "yes, but we are going to 2Mb shortly" (again, not a direct quote).. to which our response was along the lines, "but that's April, we're talking about now", which, he felt, kind of made the point a moot one.

Those were his reactions, for whatever reason.

Still though, I think we did well .. if nothing else to the layman, we got the point across that what eircom says doesn't match what everyone says. We've been doing that very well of late. Surely, kasintahan, you'd agree to that at least?

If we weren't gaining progress, why would McRedmond start appearing alongside IoffL, where previously there were no-shows and no-commits everytime they were due in a head-to-head? Also the media are paying a lot more attention to Damien and the committee. That doesn't happen by accident, and it certainly doesn't happen if the journos think IoffL haven't a point to make (or aren't making the point very well).

.cg

cgarvey · 21-03-2005 5:28pm

eircomtribunal wrote:

Damien, that was excellent.

Indeed, it was. The turnaround in the entire media you've managed to achieve
is testement to that. From them replying "who?" to them asking "how do you respond", in 6 months .. not bad at all!!

We've got the momentum now...

.cg

Blaster99 · 21-03-2005 6:40pm

Objectively I think that was probably a draw, but I wouldn't expect IOFFL to beat McRedmond. That guy is class and he also has access to a phenomenal amount of resources that IOFFL doesn't.

The whole concept of the broadband report is excellent. Media loves this type of stuff.

McRedmond has a very good point when he questions the data. There are a lot of different broadband alternatives many with very limited geographical spread and it's not fair to compare Eircom's USO offering with that. I did a couple of those countries in the list and I think you guys have for instance picked 10Mbps as an example for Sweden. I'm pretty sure that is not an ADSL-based service. Personally I think you should probably do a survey of ADSL services only, to be as fair as possible. I don't think the result is going to vary much but the report will stand up to more scrutiny.

This is a first stab at it and a very good stab it is too.

Mr_Man · 21-03-2005 6:48pm

It might be an idea to challenge Eircom to publish the report which McRedmond made such a fuss about in the interview. No doubt they will claim that it is commercially sensitive, but they either need to put up or not rely on information they are unwilling to put out to review.

M.

mike65 · 21-03-2005 7:16pm

If the calls were representative of the listeners then IOFFL scored a direct hit whatever about McRedmonds input/smoke/mirrors.

Mike.

ps I was going to say the lo-fi rip quality was awful but then I remembered why IOFFL still exists!

SeaSide · 21-03-2005 7:38pm

Mr_Man wrote:

It might be an idea to challenge Eircom to publish the report which McRedmond made such a fuss about in the interview. No doubt they will claim that it is commercially sensitive, but they either need to put up or not rely on information they are unwilling to put out to review.

M.

If eircom paid them how can they be independent consultants?

eircomtribunal · 21-03-2005 9:09pm

Blaster99 wrote:

Objectively I think that was probably a draw, but I wouldn't expect IOFFL to beat McRedmond. That guy is class and he also has access to a phenomenal amount of resources that IOFFL doesn't.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." (Ghandi)

P.

eircomtribunal · 21-03-2005 9:20pm

Blaster99 wrote:

McRedmond has a very good point when he questions the data. There are a lot of different broadband alternatives many with very limited geographical spread and it's not fair to compare Eircom's USO offering with that.

Eircom's USO offer is of very limited geographical spread and of very limited population reach, so some products in comparative countries offered not countrywide might well have a wider population reach than Eircom's offer.

McRedmond is standing on very thin ice on many arguments.

If the cost of living was to be included in the comparison, Iceland and Denmark would fare much better than Ireland.

McRedmond's claim of the special offers in Ireland could easily be refuted, as most of the other countries are on constant special offers since years.

P.

kasintahan · 21-03-2005 9:28pm

cgarvey wrote:

Still though, I think we did well .. if nothing else to the layman, we got the point across that what eircom says doesn't match what everyone says. We've been doing that very well of late. Surely, kasintahan, you'd agree to that at least?

Look, i appreciate what your guys are doing.
Hell, I directly benifit from it.

But winning a debate ISN'T ABOUT KNOWING YOU ARE RIGHT.
It's about showing the opponent to be wrong and badly wrong.

McRedmond made a point, you challenged, he retorted with equal measures of "fact", confidence and persuasion whereupon you switched the facet of the argument. That made it look like you were losing.

Take a lesson from this man, he is a Jedi master of manipulation and crushed, killed and destroyed you in front of the average punter.

shinzon · 21-03-2005 9:53pm

kasintahan wrote:

Look, i appreciate what your guys are doing.
Hell, I directly benifit from it.

But winning a debate ISN'T ABOUT KNOWING YOU ARE RIGHT.
It's about showing the opponent to be wrong and badly wrong.

McRedmond made a point, you challenged, he retorted with equal measures of "fact", confidence and persuasion whereupon you switched the facet of the argument. That made it look like you were losing.

Take a lesson from this man, he is a Jedi master of manipulation and crushed, killed and destroyed you in front of the average punter.

Ive never heard such rubbish in all my life, what facts are you talking about, he spewed the same rubbish that he always spews, his facts were taken from sources he didnt name, his study was paid for by eircom, need i go on and on

Dont know what show you were listening to but i think you need to listen to it again

Shin

dahamsta · 21-03-2005 10:09pm

kasintahan wrote:

Take a lesson from this man, he is a Jedi master of manipulation and crushed, killed and destroyed you in front of the average punter.

I must have been listening to another show. Although I'm not going to cheerlead Damien on his performance like some, I'd call the actual battle of wits pretty much a draw, with McRedmond frustrating Damien on a couple of occasions and Damien equally showing McRedmond up as a snakeoil merchant when the opportunity arose. When the emails of support at the end of the piece are factored in, I'd give IrelandOffline a win. Not a huge win, but a clear win.

What frustrates me most about kasintahan's comments isn't the fact that he's calling this as a win for Eircom, however, it's the language he uses to call it. He seems to almost respect his ability to decieve and obfuscate the truth. Such behaviour should never be applauded or highlighted, it should be shown up for what it is: Garbage. McRedmond is potty-mouthed with his "facts".

adam

Jorinn · 21-03-2005 10:38pm

Blaster99 wrote:

I did a couple of those countries in the list and I think you guys have for instance picked 10Mbps as an example for Sweden. I'm pretty sure that is not an ADSL-based service. Personally I think you should probably do a survey of ADSL services only, to be as fair as possible. I don't think the result is going to vary much but the report will stand up to more scrutiny.

This is a first stab at it and a very good stab it is too.

True, the swedish 10Mbit service isn't adsl, but you can get 24Mbit ADSL for about €50 though, so whichever you want to use.

IrelandOffline on Newstalk 21/03/05 12.30

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