Speeding.... again.

Mezcita

I was on here a few months back ranting about getting done speeding on the new Ashford By-pass. To cut a long story short I'll do the old cut and paste method:

"I got done on the new Ashford by-pass recently. 67 in a 60. I was nice and polite at the start (it was a bird Garda, not bad really, five pints and you would definitely go there). But when I asked to see the gun she got a bit miffed. The gun showed 62. I pointed this out to her and asked for a receipt. She went mental PMT style, threatened to take the car off me as well as the usual "4 points if it goes to court, 1500 quid fine" Anyway, I did nothing about it and have not heard a thing since, which was three months ago."

Now that was back in September. But today a summons arrived on my front door ordering me to head into court in April.

I, like everyone else on the motors section, have heard all about this business of the 2002 Road Traffic Act being amended as a result of the Gardai not being able to give you a written receipt. As a result of this I had thought that all speeding cases from before February were not being followed up. But I've got a feeling I'm about to get the book thrown at me.

I did not have my license on me when I was stopped. PMT Garda told me to produce it at my local cop shop, which I did. However, I've been summonsed for that as well.

So, can anyone out there tell me what type of punishment I am looking at here? Has anyone on here had speeding fines dismissed once they got to court on the basis of this business regarding the Road Traffic Act?

Any advice would be appreciated.

528i

Grand if it were a fella, but judges take a very dim view of questioning a bangarda's authority in an intimidating manner by the side of the road, particularly when guiltily of breaking the law.. ya can kiss goodbye to that licence fer sure buddy

impr0v

Personally I'd oppose this. I'm unfamiliar with the current state of the various loopholes but 62 does not warrant points, especially since she chose to exaggerate it when she first stopped you. The two miles an hour could easily be attributed to calibration errors etc. The fact that you have been summoned for the licence, despite having produced it, will also make them look like they are wasting the court's time.

Essentially it comes down to your word against theirs, so wear a good suit, and whatever you do, keep your latent chauvinism under wraps in the courtroom.

lomb

dont call her PMT garda in court anyway especially if the judge is a woman

landser

go to a solicitor

BigCon

Sorry to dampen things down for you but you haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning this if it's her word against yours.
What did she write on the ticket 62 or 67? If it was 67 you'll get the 5 points.
Ragarding not producing your licence, you should be ok.
Go to the station where you produced it and explain to the gaurd what has happened. There should be a book with a record of you producing your licence...

good luck

IrishRover

BigCon wrote:

Sorry to dampen things down for you but you haven't a snowballs chance in hell of winning this if it's her word against yours.

Hey, just to say in my experience from watching normal district court proceedings, you have absolutely every chance (in fact I would say it's a certainty) of having the case dismissed if it's your word against that of a guard.

You are sworn in under oath so it is assumed that you are telling the truth when you answer any questions. Generally the way it goes is that they tell their side of the story, and the judge then asks whether your account of the matter is the same. If you say no, that's generally enough. The judge mightn't even ask for details - the very fact that your account differs in any way from that of the representing guard is enough for the judge to dismiss it right away. This is even if your version differs trivially or even where your version of events isn't necessarily in your favour, the fact that there is a discrepancy is enough.

Judges seem to be quite used to having their time wasted by gardai who either give false or inaccurate accounts or waste court time otherwise by not turning up. Judges absolutely hate having their time wasted. In court, gardai are treated with no particular reverence and in fact judges can often seem quite hostile towards them.

I would say dress well and speak politely and clearly and respectfully to the judge. State your case unequivocally when asked and unless the judge is the guard's sister you are certain to have this dismissed and the guard severely ticked off for wasting the court's time.

unkel

Mezcita wrote:

I did nothing about it and have not heard a thing since, which was three months ago."

Now that was back in September. But today a summons arrived on my front door ordering me to head into court in April

So you never received a fixed fine notice in the post? And it went straight to summons? In that case the max you can get is the standard fine and 2 points. More likely it will be dismissed especially if your evidence is believed that the gun reading was 62 (within the margin of error - not enough to prove you were speeding)

Victor

Mezcita wrote:

I did not have my license on me when I was stopped. PMT Garda told me to produce it at my local cop shop, which I did. However, I've been summonsed for that as well.

But you are obliged to carry your licence.

Mezcita

landser wrote:

go to a solicitor

Spoke to one today. Told me its unlikely the case will go ahead as hundreds of cases from before the change in the law are being thrown out.

Can only presume that the Garda in question wants me to spend the time and money in hiring a solicitor, only to not turn up on the day.

Bah!

30-6shooter

How are you calculating the "5" points mentioned??

2 for speeding and the 2 if you lose in court?? And 1 for no license? Is that it. 5 seems very drastic, all out of 1 incident.

How could you prevent going to court if you were never sent a fine in the post that you could just pay and accept 2 points? This seems a little retarded to me but it is Ireland i suppose. Still, at least the guards are doing a great job, 62mph in a 60 zone :rolleyes: And they cant even read properly now.

yankinlk

be sure to let us know how this turns out! Seems very very unfair and an abuse of power/system by the PMT. Good luck

causal

Mezcita wrote:

Now that was back in September. But today a summons arrived on my front door ordering me to head into court in April.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Seeing a solicitor is the right thing to do, preferably one who is used to dealing with motoring offences; and one who is familiar with the court (and therefore the judge) you will appear before. But preferably not one of the solicitors who spends their day in that one court - they tend to 'know' the Gardai - this may not work in your favour.

It appears your summons arrived just inside the 6 months period :rolleyes:
Check the dates on the summons - should tell you when the complaint was made, i.e. whether the Garda did it straight away or left it for ages.

As was said wear a suit, have your facts straight and speak confidently to the judge. You must appear a credible witness.
It's the DPP that put the case against you, the Garda is called as witness - and so are you. As it's a criminal case the burden of proof is 'beyond reasonable doubt'; it's your job to show reasonable doubt.
There's always the chance she won't turn up, as others said, they do this regularly just to piss people off by making them turn up in court, and stress out. :mad:
Remember the judge is god - impress the judge and you're in good shape.

It might be worth making contact with the Garda (real cool and nice like ) to see if she wants to go ahead with the hearing; but ask your solicitor for his advice.

If what you've said is accuracte and your solicitor is in any way competent then you've every chance of having it struck-out.
Please do report back to this thread to let us know how you get on.
Good luck

causal

Captain Trips

30-6shooter wrote:

How are you calculating the "5" points mentioned??

2 for speeding and the 2 if you lose in court?? And 1 for no license? Is that it. 5 seems very drastic, all out of 1 incident.

How could you prevent going to court if you were never sent a fine in the post that you could just pay and accept 2 points? This seems a little retarded to me but it is Ireland i suppose. Still, at least the guards are doing a great job, 62mph in a 60 zone :rolleyes: And they cant even read properly now.

It's harsh seeing as 62 *is* the new 80kph limit.

I;ve actually seen the points mount up before my very eyes one night. In a taxi, who was speeding on mount street at ~3am, at maybe 45mph (as they do), garda appears out of nowhere with a speed gun, pulls him in. I have chips and have been told not to eat them in the car so am not impressed.

Garda says to the guy, 2 points you know, your speeding....and hang on....you're not wearing your seatbelt. SO they guy gets a bit flustered because, even in my drunken state, I religiously put it on when getting in. Apparently these days, taxi drivers aren't "exempt".

So the garda asks for his license and he says.....ah you've guessed it, no license.

So the garda asks him to get out of the car as the taxi driver was starting to get a little irritable toward him - they had a 5 min chit chat by the ATM on the corner of Love Lane and sure enough, he got done for everything.

Moral of story: don't buy chips when far from home.

causal

Captain Trips wrote:

Moral of story: don't buy chips when far from home.

LOL.
Alternate Moral of Story: Don't speed. Wear your seatbelt. Carry your licence.
Alternate Immoral of Story: Don't get caught

m'lud,
causal

Our man in Havana

Mezcita wrote:

Spoke to one today. Told me its unlikely the case will go ahead as hundreds of cases from before the change in the law are being thrown out.

Can only presume that the Garda in question wants me to spend the time and money in hiring a solicitor, only to not turn up on the day.

Bah!

The gardai are still chancing their arms with these dead duck cases. If you don't mention the lack of printout they will still win.

Mezcita

The verdict..... case dismissed by the Judge last week. On the advice of my solicitor he told me not to even bother turning up so I left it all up to him. Speeding charge was thrown out due to the fact that I was caught prior to the change in the Road Traffic Act. Other charge of me not having my license on me was also thrown out as my local Garda station printed off the sheet showing that I had produced it two days later.

Total bill from my solicitor was €80. Exactly the same as the fine would have been. But I think it was worth every cent. Granted it was a waste everyone's time but I think it’s important to challenge the Garda when you think you have a case.

Final interesting thing was that my solicitor said that people do frequently attempt to defend themselves when summoned. However, it’s completely up to the judge whether he will listen to you or not. The Garda in question is somewhat notorious for pursuing these hopeless cases. Bless her, she even got my reg wrong on the summons! But the judge has the authority to change this fact in court so it does not automatically mean that people get let off.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Appreciate it.

DublinWriter

You should document all this and write in a formal complaint to Garda HQ at Phoenix Park.

Our man in Havana

DublinWriter wrote:

You should document all this and write in a formal complaint to Garda HQ at Phoenix Park.

Pointless as it is more than 6 months ago. You have only 6 months to complain.

Con9903

Thats good to hear . I'm glad that moody tart didn't cause you too much hassle in the end.

causal

Good for you, €80 well spent

It's a pity but poor judgement by an individual Garda give bad press to the whole force and begin to alienate the public from the Gardai. She should apolagise to you, the court, her fellow Gardai, and the public :mad:

causal

Borzoi

Captain Trips wrote:

It's harsh seeing as 62 *is* the new 80kph limit.
.

Captain, 62mph is the new 100kph limit

blastman

I'm printing out this thread and shoving it up the nose of the next sanctimonious tosser that tells me about the guards always being in the right.....

magpie

The verdict..... case dismissed by the Judge last week. On the advice of my solicitor he told me not to even bother turning up so I left it all up to him. Speeding charge was thrown out due to the fact that I was caught prior to the change in the Road Traffic Act. Other charge of me not having my license on me was also thrown out as my local Garda station printed off the sheet showing that I had produced it two days later.

Good for you! Can you sue for costs?

Mezcita

magpie wrote:

Good for you! Can you sue for costs?

Fraid not Magpie. Solicitor advised me that it was out of the question prior to the case being heard. Least we all have a fair idea of what the Gardai can and cannot do now when it comes to this lark.

God knows I'll probably meet her again in somewhere like Copper Face Jacks. We can but dream lads!

causal

Mezcita wrote:

I'll probably meet her again in somewhere like Copper Face Jacks.

a.k.a. Slapper Faced Skacks

Seth Brundle

Mezcita wrote:

God knows I'll probably meet her again in somewhere like Copper Face Jacks.

why in Gods name would you go there anyway (unless it was part of an evil revenge masterplan whereby you either plan on puking on her or else taking her home, stripping her naked and tying her to the bed and then just going home (after puking on her)!)

Our man in Havana

kbannon wrote:

why in Gods name would you go there anyway (unless it was part of an evil revenge masterplan whereby you either plan on puking on her or else taking her home, stripping her naked and tying her to the bed and then just going home (after puking on her)!)

sounds like a plan

DublinWriter

kbannon wrote:

why in Gods name would you go there anyway (unless it was part of an evil revenge masterplan whereby you either plan on puking on her or else taking her home, stripping her naked and tying her to the bed and then just going home (after puking on her)!)

...or getting her back home, and while she's in the act of Kissing the Barney Stone, suddenly grabbing her radio and shouting "Officer Down! Officer Down!"

528i

a downward spiral of debauchery, but you could also take her from behind [if she rough like] and just at the last minute give her a smack and shout 'yer mudder was a better rhide' and watch her squiggle like crazy to heighten the sensation..

DublinWriter

528i wrote:

a downward spiral of debauchery, but you could also take her from behind [if she rough like] and just at the last minute give her a smack and shout 'yer mudder was a better rhide' and watch her squiggle like crazy to heighten the sensation..

You need professional help my friend, and maybe a priest, too.