Gill: Fergie is 'sackable'

Aquos76

Stumbled upon this. Is this the first signs of the board getting frustrated with the teams preformances

http://itv-football.co.uk/Teams/Manchester_United/story_147113.shtml

PHB

No, want to know why?

"But (removing the manager) is not something that has entered our discussions at boardroom level. It would be detrimental to the club to make a knee-jerk reaction for not winning the league for a second season in a row.

The Rooster

No manager should be unsackable. There comes a time when a manager's time is up, and it would benefit the club to get a new man in.

I think Ferguson has made mistakes this year. They lost pace at the beginning of the season, and that could arguably be put down to Ferguson chopping and changing the team too much, and basically not knowing his best XI or best formation. Since Christmas or so, he's got that sorted and they've been as good as (or at least almost as good as) Chelsea since then. Now you could praise him for finally getting it right, or criticise him for taking so long, but either way its now too late. If they were neck and neck with Chelsea now, you'd really fancy them to win the title, as the hardest one to win is the first one.

Ferguson also performed poorly IMO over the two legs v Milan. Of course thats easy to say with hindsight - but thats why managers get paid the big bucks.

The bigger question mark is - is there anyone out there who would be available and would be better than him?

Martin O'Neill is the name mostly bandied about, and I'm sure if Fergujson was gone there would be significant pressure from McManus and Magnier to appoint MON. While I've no doubt that MON is a great motivator and tends to get the best from players, I'm not sure I'd have as much faith in him in say spending £50m to buy a new keeper, new centre back and two new midfielders.

The Rooster

Interesting that Gill reiterated the position re no transfer funds in the summer

..cash to bring in new players this summer will be strictly limited, with Gill confirming Ferguson was fully in agreement with the decision to spend £27million on Wayne Rooney in August, even though it would wipe out his entire 2005 budget for bringing in new players.

"That was a decision taken in agreement with Sir Alex, we are very pleased with the composition of the squad, so any funds for new acquisitions will be paid for by disposals."

I didnt think United would stick to that, but it sounds like they are. That would seem to also count against a change in manager, as any new manager would probably need to be given a kitty to help build his own team - not to mention Ferguson would be due a payoff of at least a year's salary.

EDIT - more from Gill, which indicates exceptions will be made:

"Obviously we would have to sign a goalkeeper if Roy Carroll doesn't re-sign and if we've got a vacancy in that department, we would have to make money available for that," Gill told BBC Radio Four's Today programme.

astrofool

you also forget the huge injury problems they had at the start of the season, and the fact that in most seasons, the league could be won even after a slow start. This season, Chelsea have been pushing for it from the start.

beer enigma

Pity the poor man who would get that job........


Ahem, Alex........You're fired :eek:

super_furry

Very, very strange for Gill to go public with something like this. Could be there's more than meets the eye.

Johnny_the_fox

well, to be honest Ferguson has been living off the 1999 season.. for the last number of years anyway.. since then he has spent roughly 160 million+.. (numerous flops) -

1 - Fa Cup
1 - Charity Shield
3 - League Titles

talk about buying success. :eek:

thejollyrodger

In any other top european club Fergie would be long gone. He has made too many poor decisions and Man Utd have been way off the pace until recently in the EPL. He got all his tatics wrong (4-5-1 at home FFS) and the C.L was a diaster this season.

a new brush sweeps just as clean.

SteM

Sorry, double post.

SteM

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

well, to be honest Ferguson has been living off the 1999 season.. for the last number of years anyway.. since then he has spent roughly 160 million+.. (numerous flops) -

1 - Fa Cup
1 - Charity Shield
3 - League Titles

talk about buying success. :eek:

Some of Fergies buys and tactics in recent years have been dodgy to say the least. But with his rolling contract kicking in you would think he'd have to produce the goods or it just won't be renewed the following year, simple as that. According to red11.org since '99 :

Spent: £179m (they haven't included Rooney, I put him down as £30m)
Recouped: £79m
Total: £100m

As Ferdinand and Rooney are still on the books, are both young and fit and internationals you could conservatively get £50 mill for the 2 of them now. You would also expect him to make a profit on Ronaldo if he was to be sold tomorrow. So if you look at it that way it's not like his spending since '99 has been out of control, there have been some very poor choices though.

eirebhoy

If Utd win their 8 league matches they'll finish the league on 90 points. Thats the same as what Arsenal got in their unbeaten season last year. Chelsea are just too good this year.

The Muppet

The Rooster wrote:

They lost pace at the beginning of the season, and that could arguably be put down to Ferguson chopping and changing the team too much, and basically not knowing his best XI or best formation. Since Christmas or so, he's got that sorted and they've been as good as (or at least almost as good as) Chelsea since then.

Thats one possible explanation but the fact that United form slumped when Ferdinand was missing and returned on his return could mean that his absence was the reason for our slow start to the season. Ok he is only one player but Uniteds form since his return suggests he is a very important player. Lokk at Arsenals form when campbell is injured.

As for the money fergie has spent , other teams have spent around the same with even less to show for it , some of his signings have flopped but thats football it happens every manager.

SteM

The Muppet wrote:

Thats one possible explanation but the fact that United form slumped when Ferdinand was missing and returned on his return could mean that his absence was the reason for our slow start to the season.

I'd like to believe that the improvement in form was partly down to Heinze coming in too.

SteM

BTW, the piece makes me laugh:
http://itv-football.co.uk/Teams/Man...ry_147113.shtml

But while Gill stressed there has never been any suggesting that Ferguson could be shown the door, he admitted no-one at the club is beyond dismissal.

The piece never mentions that Gill was responding to a question on 5Live saying that costs were increasing and profits were decreasing - Fergies new contact was part of the increasing costs even though he delivering less so would they consider getting rid of him?

What else is Gill going to say - 'No he's untouchable!'?

thejollyrodger

fergie is too old. He looks like a man who is getting dimensia. United might not win the EPL but they should be putting teams like lyon etc away. As Roy says, "...making the last 16 isnt much good to anyone, is it ?"

LegacyUser

I feel, if by the end of next season Ferguson does not win the league or the CL, he will go.

dirkey_wynne

thejollyrodger wrote:

fergie is too old. He looks like a man who is getting dimensia. United might not win the EPL but they should be putting teams like lyon etc away. As Roy says, "...making the last 16 isnt much good to anyone, is it ?"

Eh, did Lyon beat us this year? I could have sworn not...

PHB

Chelsea have been too consistant this year, they never had a blip.
Can't do anythign.
Next year if both Utd and Chelsea keep up this pace, it will be almost perfect seasons for both of them

thejollyrodger

2-2 draw away from home is hardly putting a team like Lyon away.

smemon

PHB wrote:

Chelsea have been too consistant this year, they never had a blip.
Can't do anythign.
Next year if both Utd and Chelsea keep up this pace, it will be almost perfect seasons for both of them

i agree, utd have lost 2 games this year! and are on 66points with 8 games left. so potentially could end up with 90pnts!! and still come 2nd! :eek:

thats remarkable when you think of it and terribly unfortunate. any other season and you'd be looking at winning the league. chelsea have been lucky this season, picked up too many points were usually, you dont get any. they wont have that luck next year, maybe will never do again.

although utd will be slaughtered for not winning the league and the old 'your past it' will be floated about, there isnt a whole lot theyve done wrong and if they have 66 points this time next year will probably be only a few points from top if not top.

PHB

eh, United have had their fair share of luck this year too
cough Spurs cough

All the top teams get luck, what united have to do is not make up fake excuses that Chelsea are lucky, but recognise that they need to be 100% all throughout the year

jonny68

Sacking Fergie would be an act of madness,United are still on for the FA Cup and while that might not be a brilliant season by their high standards,winning a trophy is still very important,Fergie has gotten it wrong on several times this season and i think he realises that,but wasnt he quoted recently as saying that he would be prepared to commit himself to the club for another couple of years?

I think United need to sign a classy goalkeeper(definetly),that should be at the top of Fergies list,maybe do a clear out of some fringe players,also they need to sign a defender,and perhaps a midfielder,they are spoilt for choice up front so no need for any signings there..but getting back to my original point sacking Fergie would be an insult to the greatest manager ever to have managed United and one of the best ever in the UK,Fergie still has the hunger and desire to win,the CL and Premiership might have passed him by this season but he`ll be raring to go for season 2005/06,when he does decide to call it a day (i really cannot ever see him getting the bullet) i believe on Fergies recomendation that his trusty assistant Carlos Quientoz will be the man to take over the helm,he would be my choice as he knows the team inside out,and would be in my opinion a success as new manager and i believe he will certainly be in the running for the job should he not leave again but i dont think he will....

Jivin Turkey

smemon wrote:

ithats remarkable when you think of it and terribly unfortunate. any other season and you'd be looking at winning the league. chelsea have been lucky this season, picked up too many points were usually, you dont get any. they wont have that luck next year, maybe will never do again.

although utd will be slaughtered for not winning the league and the old 'your past it' will be floated about, there isnt a whole lot theyve done wrong and if they have 66 points this time next year will probably be only a few points from top if not top.

I dont understand why people think Chelsea have been so lucky. Yes a few decision have gone their way (mind you Liverpool being the only blatant one off the top of my head), but at the same time, in those games where they were "lucky" they were not in any danger of losing them.

In fact I cant remember the last league game that I thought that they were actually in danger of losing. Its been teams holding them off, pressure after pressure, but then finally Chelsea get a break and get a goal. However if those "lucky" break didnt come they would have continued to press and possibly got through anyway. IMO whatever luck or fortune they have had they have made it themselves.

As regards United, I personally think the "past it" argument might hold a little water. Not for any players individually, but in central midfield. Scholes will be 31 this year, Keane 35, and despite that only Silvestre and Heinze have started more games than either of them.

They are both still incredible players in their own right, and still have bucket loads to offer United, but as a central pairing, for an entire season (I mean who else do United have in CM?), I really dont feel they have the stamina any more.

I really think United need to sign another player of the same class, to ease the workload of the two.

PHB

Fletcher is a top quality player imo and was showing it until he got injured.
Fortune is similarily preforming very well and is doing well as cover.
That said I agree that at least one top quality or high potential central midfielder has to be brought in, and Essien is looking quite likely now

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Fletcher is a top quality player imo and was showing it until he got injured.
Fortune is similarily preforming very well and is doing well as cover.
That said I agree that at least one top quality or high potential central midfielder has to be brought in, and Essien is looking quite likely now

Flecther has a very very long way to go to be considered "top quality", and as you said Fortune is performing very well but do you really think he is good enough?

Bear in mind the two players will be replaced in three years, they need someone established as a world class player, do you really think Essien is that good?

dirkey_wynne

thejollyrodger wrote:

2-2 draw away from home is hardly putting a team like Lyon away.

4 points taken, against the top scorers in the CL (and they were that before they played Bremen) isn't all that bad I don't think. And a 2-1 win at home by the way, forgot to mention that. I feel that's putting them away alright.

dirkey_wynne

PHB wrote:

Fletcher is a top quality player imo and was showing it until he got injured.
Fortune is similarily preforming very well and is doing well as cover.
That said I agree that at least one top quality or high potential central midfielder has to be brought in, and Essien is looking quite likely now

Fletcher is not good enough now, and never will be good enough to be a first team regular at OT.

PHB

Nope, I don't think Essien is that good yet, but then again I don't think we can buy someone to replace Keano or Scholes off the bat woithout spoending about 30 million euro, a price which Gerrard would probably go for.
Essien has the potential, he is 22, and Fergie likes him. Thats good enough for me

I hate faith in Fletcher, he is only like 20, how can you say he won't ever be good enough? Ever see BEckham play at 20? He was at Preston NOrth End. The fact that this kid has been Scotland captain is a testament to his ability now and his future ability. Fortune is a stop gap, no doubt bout it

dirkey_wynne

PHB wrote:

Nope, I don't think Essien is that good yet, but then again I don't think we can buy someone to replace Keano or Scholes off the bat woithout spoending about 30 million euro, a price which Gerrard would probably go for.
Essien has the potential, he is 22, and Fergie likes him. Thats good enough for me

I hate faith in Fletcher, he is only like 20, how can you say he won't ever be good enough? Ever see BEckham play at 20? He was at Preston NOrth End. The fact that this kid has been Scotland captain is a testament to his ability now and his future ability. Fortune is a stop gap, no doubt bout it

I can say he won't be good enough having watched him play regularly enough in the first team over the past two years. Any youngsters who came through at OT, and went on to be a success looked instantly at home in the first team. Look at Becks, Giggs, Scholes, Nev P + G, O'Shea, Brown. Then look at Fletcher. He's consistently underperformed, loses the ball a lot, doesn't score enough goals, doesn't set up enough goals and is knocked off the ball extremely easy. Point out to me exactly what it is you see in him that'll make him a success, cos in his time in the team for a creative midfielder he's created fnck all. Yes he's young, but so were the others when they came in. Rooney/Ronnie are younger and look way more at home. Even Spector looked at home when he came on, i have faith in him making it. Fletch has simply always looked out of place in that side. And he has been given long enough. Yes he's young, as you say, but as I say every other young player who has made it has looked at home when they've come in. Look at Chadwick/Simon Davies etc - they all loooked out of place, where are they now?