United Ireland Team

BrookieD

Hi
Just heard on 5Live that George Best was hoping to see a United Ireland football side before the end of his lifetime. Can this be done?
It Works in Rugby, so can it work in Football, are there the players in the North who would make it into a Rep Of Ireland team at present, would it make a stronger team or a weaker team.

Would this cause unwanted tension between the fans from a sectarian(spelling?) point of view


Discuss!!!!

Big Ears

Unionists wouldn't want it and some people down here wouldn't like it either .
NI players that would make the Republic squad Maik Taylor , David Healy , Aaron Hughes .

Villain

Northern Ireland players would lose out a lot, i.e. there would only be 2 or 3 good enough to make an all Ireland side.

PHB

I think it'd be nice if the whole country could unite on something, that said from a footballing point of view I really can't think of any NI players that would make it into the first 11, that said Hely might be nice as an extra striker.

Genghis

United Ireland team - sure, makes sense. What about an All-Ireland league? Unfortunately soccer in Ireland has been sectarianised since the early 1900's. It is no coincidence that we don't have a viable atractive professional league here (instead we have two largely ineffective and unstable leagues); it is also no coincidence that we only ever seem to have one good international side between us.

RuggieBear

I think it's a good idea...not sure it's practical. Love to see a united ireland team.

i'm sure deep down that Best regrets never playing in a WC finals.

Regrding numbers from each ireland in the squad it's all swings and roundabouts....back in the early 80's only a few Rep Irish players would have made the same squad.

Big Ears

PHB wrote:

.that said from a footballing point of view I really can't think of any NI players that would make it into the first 11.

Hughes at left back ?

KdjaCL

Dont think there is one player in NI team that would even get into the squad, be nice if we had a united league to have united country but NI players not good enough atm so be unfair on them.

Taylor vs Kenny Given Murphy and 3 others coming tru.
Hughes vs O Shea Maybury
Healy is a Div 1 striker no point in going backwards.

kdjac

Big Ears

KdjaC wrote:

Dont think there is one player in NI team that would even get into the squad, be nice if we had a united league to have united country but NI players not good enough atm so be unfair on them.

Taylor vs Kenny Given Murphy and 3 others coming tru.
Hughes vs O Shea Maybury
Healy is a Div 1 striker no point in going backwards.

kdjac

Taylor would be ahead of Kenny and everyone except Given at this point in time.
Hughes to start ahead of those two .
Healy to fight it out with Elliot for 3rd choice striker .(he would make the squad IMHO)

thejollyrodger

Norn Iron soccer is at a low. The south has little to gain so why bother?

Answer - No.

However,

An all Ireland soccer league with a big sponsorship deal would be more attractive for me tbh. One premier division and two regional divisions below that. There would be a lot more support for club level than national level.

The Rooster

The sectarian issue would be no more that it is in rubgy, where practically all the Ulster players who have been in Ireland squads in recent years have been protestants.

The single biggest obstacle is that neither the FAI nor IFA would be prepared to concede any of their power. I just could never see them re-merging. Secondly UEFA (I guess) would insist on the leagues being merged also - I dont see that as a problem, but it may result in less European places.

RuggieBear

The Rooster wrote:

The sectarian issue would be no more that it is in rubgy, where practically all the Ulster players who have been in Ireland squads in recent years have been protestants.

The single biggest obstacle is that neither the FAI nor IFA would be prepared to concede any of their power. I just could never see them re-merging. Secondly UEFA (I guess) would insist on the leagues being merged also - I dont see that as a problem, but it may result in less European places.

Aye, and less power and european places means less money....and that to me would be the main problem for a united team

Megatron

While i would like to see this happen ( Irish Rugby team as a example).
Policitacly it will never be allowed. Soccer is the game of the pople ( well more so that Rugby) and some on both sides will opose this with everything they can.


Ok so the feeling atm seems to be that the NI lads will lose out on getting in the squad. Swings and roundabouts, Atm yeah they don't have a good squad, but then again either did we, we have now confimed our squad and our overall game has risen.


Just my 2 cents worth

BaZmO*

BrookieD wrote:

It Works in Rugby, so can it work in Football

They also sell beer at Rugby internationals but could never do it at soccer matches. Soccer is one of the most sectarian sports in the world and throw in some of the most staunch sectarian supporters into that equation and you're just asking for trouble.

I like the romantic notion of it but at the moment we have absolutely nothing to gain from it player wise.

And finally, how confusing would it get at an Old Firm derby!!

B.

RuggieBear

BaZmO* wrote:

And finally, how confusing would it get at an Old Firm derby!!

B.

About as confusing as when liverpool play Manchester Utd.....

The Rooster

BaZmO* wrote:

I like the romantic notion of it but at the moment we have absolutely nothing to gain from it player wise.

Thats a very short term viewpoint. Things can change very quickly. At the moment there is no Ulsterman in the Irish rugby side, but the U21 team has 8 or 9 Ulster lads in the side.

RuggieBear

The Rooster wrote:

Thats a very short term viewpoint. Things can change very quickly. At the moment there is no Ulsterman in the Irish rugby side, but the U21 team has 8 or 9 Ulster lads in the side.

Aye.... and look how successful they've been this season....

GuanYin

Can't see anyone from NI getting into the squad if it happened in the next 3 years.

However, if you look at the youth coming through then it may be a different story. IF it were to happen, you're talking in maybe 5 years or more, certainly not before the end of the next European Championship campaign (because it won't happen before the draw for qualifiers). So you're talking WC 2010 at the earliest.

I'd be interested to compare the 15-16 year olds coming through on both sides, but to be honest, the Republic youth sides are among the best in the world so I don't think the North would have anything to offer then either.

colster

The Rooster wrote:

Thats a very short term viewpoint. Things can change very quickly. At the moment there is no Ulsterman in the Irish rugby side, but the U21 team has 8 or 9 Ulster lads in the side.

Have to agree there. At the moment the Irish Rugby team don't have many Ulster reps but that will change over the next few seasons.

I'd like to have a combined Ireland team but can't see it happening. If it was to happen I can see 6 or 7 NI players making the squad with maybe 1 making the first team.

colster

psi wrote:

Can't see anyone from NI getting into the squad if it happened in the next 3 years.

I think you're wrong there. There would be about 6 N.I. players in a combined squad.
M. Taylor instead of Murphy
A. Hughes instead of Doherty
G. McCartney instead of Maybury
D. Johnson instead of Miller
K. Gillespie instead of Quinn
D. Healy instead of Elliott/Macken/Connolly

por

Absolutley no way.
The FAI broke away from the iFA in the 20s and it's the best thing they ever did.
Can you imagine in Israel on Saturday having to listen to 'Ireland's Call' and seeing some made up flag flying instead of a Tri-Colour.
It may work in Rugby but that is a totally different issue. IMO Ulster protestants see Ireland in a Rugby sense as one of the 'Home Nations', not as a seperate country. In soccer we are 'The Republic Of Ireland' and long may it last

eirebhoy

Jesus lads, stop thinking of the short term. If this was to happen Maik Taylor would most likely have retired. Anyway, Northern Ireland has a higher population than Dublin. Can you imagine the current Ireland squad without the Dubs of Damien Duff, Robbie Keane, Andy Reid, Kenny Cunningham, Stephen Carr, Stephen Elliott, Graham Kavanagh, etc? OK, Northern Ireland are going through a bad patch atm but it shouldn't be long before they produce a couple more George Bests.

The Rooster

por wrote:

...... some made up flag flying instead of a Tri-Colour.
It may work in Rugby but that is a totally different issue.

Clever boy.
Does the tri-colour not fly at all Irish rugby internationals? Please describe this "made up flag".

By the way, what three colours make up the tri-colour?
Green, white and ......

Any idea what the third colour represents???

por

The Rooster wrote:

Clever boy.
Does the tri-colour not fly at all Irish rugby internationals? Please describe this "made up flag".

By the way, what three colours make up the tri-colour?
Green, white and ......

Any idea what the third colour represents???

To the best of my knowledge at the WC in Aus. a flag other than the tri-colour was flown and the national anthem was replaced with 'Irelands Call'

All this is done to appease the unionist element in Ulster

Washout

Remember what happened to Neil Lennon...

Can you really see unionists supporting an almost all catholic team?
Its sad that a divide has been created due to history but the fact that its there and there is alot of bad blood on both sides.

On saying that i have always wondered why a united ireland rugby team has always worked? was there a time when NI had their own rugby team?

BaZmO*

The Rooster wrote:

Any idea what the third colour represents???

Fruit? Just like the first colour represents vegetables.

B.

Highlander

The Rooster wrote:

Clever boy.
Does the tri-colour not fly at all Irish rugby internationals? Please describe this "made up flag".

By the way, what three colours make up the tri-colour?
Green, white and ......

Any idea what the third colour represents???

And do you think Protestant/Unionist NI born players would be prepared to stand for Amhran Na bhFiann and the Tri Colour.

A Dub in Glasgo

I would love to see this happen but I cannot see any movement on this without the corresponding movement politcally ie a move to a United Ireland.

GuanYin

colster wrote:

I think you're wrong there. There would be about 6 N.I. players in a combined squad.
M. Taylor instead of Murphy
A. Hughes instead of Doherty
G. McCartney instead of Maybury
D. Johnson instead of Miller
K. Gillespie instead of Quinn
D. Healy instead of Elliott/Macken/Connolly

To be perfectly honest of all the players you mention, the only ones I'd have in the squad are Maybury (who is better than huges imho) and Elliot (who is far better than Healy).

We have better than every one of those in the squad at present.

The Rooster

Jeez Louise!!!!

To the best of my knowledge at the WC in Aus. a flag other than the tri-colour was flown

WRONG! The tri-colour is flown at all Irish rugby internationals, home and away.

Fruit? Just like the first colour represents vegetables.

Wrong and wrong.

And do you think Protestant/Unionist NI born players would be prepared to stand for Amhran Na bhFiann and the Tri Colour.

The rugby players have no problems standing for Amhran na bhFiann at home internationals. Ireland's Call is also played at home games and at away games, as its more inclusive.
The rugby players have no problem standing for the Tri Colour at any game, and I doubt the soccer players would either.

Did you ever see Darren Clarke at the Ryder Cups? Darren, by the way, is a proud protestant Ulsterman. After the win, he could be heard roaring "MCGINLEY" to come over to himself and Harrington so the 3 of them could be pictured under the Tri-colour - making sure of course that Clarke himself is under the orange third!

Clarke is intelligent. He knows the tri-colour represents the whole island. The green bit represents the south, the orange bit the north, and the white represents the hope of peace between the two communities. A lot of people, both North and South, are unaware of this.

The Rooster

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I would love to see this happen but I cannot see any movement on this without the corresponding movement politcally ie a move to a United Ireland.

Why do you think this?
We compete as one team at rugby, hockey, cricket and golf (and International Rules ), as well as at all Olympic Sports (albeit when it comes to the Olympics athletes have a choice between Ireland and UK, but the vast majority choose Ireland regardless of religion). Its only the very odd sport where we compete as a 26 county team.

por

The Rooster wrote:

WRONG! The tri-colour is flown at all Irish rugby internationals, home and away..

Incorrect. At home the Tri-colour and Amhrán na bhFiann are only used because the game is being played in the Republic Of Ireland.

The Rooster wrote:

The rugby players have no problems standing for Amhran na bhFiann at home internationals. Ireland's Call is also played at home games and at away games, as its more inclusive.
The rugby players have no problem standing for the Tri Colour at any game, and I doubt the soccer players would either.

If they have no problem with it they whay were the changes introduced ?

The Rooster wrote:

Did you ever see Darren Clarke at the Ryder Cups? Darren, by the way, is a proud protestant Ulsterman. After the win, he could be heard roaring "MCGINLEY" to come over to himself and Harrington so the 3 of them could be pictured under the Tri-colour - making sure of course that Clarke himself is under the orange third!

Clarke is intelligent. He knows the tri-colour represents the whole island. The green bit represents the south, the orange bit the north, and the white represents the hope of peace between the two communities. A lot of people, both North and South, are unaware of this.

I don't care what Clarke thinks, all I know is that as a person who suppoprts a 26 county Republic of Ireland I would hate to see us joing with another country (i.e NI) and give up our flag and anthem to appease them

Pigman II

The biggest bone of contention as I see it would be what to call the unified team?

I suggest we go 50/50 and take the 'Republic of' part from our name and the 'Ireland' part from 'Northern Ireland' and combine it to make a new 'Republic of Ireland' moniker.

//

Seriously tho I don't really relish giving up European club places and half our International home qualifiers to Belfast just for the sake of getting 1 or 2 players.

BaZmO*

The Rooster wrote:

Wrong and wrong.

LOL. I can't believe you actually corrected me on that!!

The Rooster wrote:

Ireland's Call is also played at home games and at away games, as its more inclusive.

It wasn't played in Cardiff on Saturday.

B.

Pigman II

BaZmO* wrote:

LOL. I can't believe you actually corrected me on that!!

Well in fairness you should have said peas and carrots just as every good Irishman knows.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Rooster wrote:

Why do you think this?
We compete as one team at rugby, hockey, cricket and golf (and International Rules ), as well as at all Olympic Sports (albeit when it comes to the Olympics athletes have a choice between Ireland and UK, but the vast majority choose Ireland regardless of religion). Its only the very odd sport where we compete as a 26 county team.

Soccer is the most tribal of sports and the 'proud' Ulstermen (sic) who frequent Windsor Park and give the type of reception to Lennon will not agree to this at all.

For one Ireland team to happen, I see a 3 stage process

1. Political moves to make it more an acceptable option on both sides of the border

2. The FAI and IFA merge to form one association and one league structure

3. The fielding of a 'new' Ireland team with the colours drawn from the tricolur on the team strip. Green top, white shorts and orange socks

Davey Devil

It will never happen in my life time never mind George Best's life. He's only got a few years in him the way he carries on.

I hate when this topic comes up and certain posters only concern is "will it make our team any better". That sort of talk is very disrespectful to Northern Ireland's team and their fans. The Northern Ireland fans don't want it to happen and in my opinion it never will.

It's like Manchester United merging with Man City, there's no way it could work and why should it? They are happy with their team and we are grand as we are. Leave it that way.

The Rooster

BaZmO* wrote:

It wasn't played in Cardiff on Saturday.

'Twas.

all I know is that as a person who supports a 26 county Republic of Ireland I would hate to see us joing with another country (i.e NI)

We'll you've every right to hold those partitionist views

BaZmO*

The Rooster wrote:

'Twas.

'Twasn't

thejollyrodger

Clarke is intelligent. He knows the tri-colour represents the whole island. The green bit represents the south, the orange bit the north, and the white represents the hope of peace between the two communities. A lot of people, both North and South, are unaware of this.

Your incorrect, the north didnt exist back then: -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland
The tricolour, with its three equal vertical bands of green (hoist side), white and orange, was first used by Irish nationalists in 1848 during the Young Irelanders' rebellion, though the colours on the original flag were in reverse order to the modern version.

Inspired by the French tricolour, it was designed to represent the Catholic Gaelic community (represented by green) and the Protestant community (represented by orange due to William of Orange) living together in peace (symbolised by the white band).

Absolutley no way.
The FAI broke away from the iFA in the 20s and it's the best thing they ever did.
Can you imagine in Israel on Saturday having to listen to 'Ireland's Call' and seeing some made up flag flying instead of a Tri-Colour.
It may work in Rugby but that is a totally different issue. IMO Ulster protestants see Ireland in a Rugby sense as one of the 'Home Nations', not as a seperate country. In soccer we are 'The Republic Of Ireland' and long may it last

I totally agree. Look how watered down rugby has become. Ulster protestants think that they are one of the home nations. Thats the only reason there is one national team.

As for changing the flag and anthem ! Its never going to happen, a country just doesnt dump its flag and come up with a new one. They can fit in with the current situation rather us bending over backwards to change.

I think Irelands call is poxy and never sing along with the stupid song. The big cheer at the end of our national anthem is world renowed.

France doesnt have to change its national anthem (and its military stuff as well) so why should we ?

If we have one team, then we will have to have one league. I dont want Shels to loose out on all those European spots. Unless there is a massive pay off.

BaZmO*

Sorry I just realised that I picked you up wrong.

Ireland's Call was played but Amhran na bhFiann wasn't.

B.

cournioni

Not a hope in hell George I'm sorry.

The Rooster

thejollyrodger wrote:

Your incorrect, the north didnt exist back then: -

The tricolour, with its three equal vertical bands of green (hoist side), white and orange, was first used by Irish nationalists in 1848 during the Young Irelanders' rebellion, though the colours on the original flag were in reverse order to the modern version.

Inspired by the French tricolour, it was designed to represent the Catholic Gaelic community (represented by green) and the Protestant community (represented by orange due to William of Orange) living together in peace (symbolised by the white band).

Sorry, didnt mean to say North and South. Meant Protestant and Catholic of course. Obviously the orange wouldnt represent Catholics up North.

I totally agree. Look how watered down rugby has become. Ulster protestants think that they are one of the home nations. Thats the only reason there is one national team.

How do you come up with this? Very impressive that you know how Ulster Prods think. Pure nonsense though IMO

If we have one team, then we will have to have one league. I dont want Shels to loose out on all those European spots. Unless there is a massive pay off

I completely agree that I'd be slow to go with one league if European spots diminshed instantly.
Both associations would have to get agreement from UEFA not to lose any places initially. i.e. we'd combine our co-effieicents rather than average them (or whatever). Before undertaking any merger we'd need to be guaranteed that we'd keep 2 CL qualifier spots and 4 (?) UEFA Spots. Try and get a special exemption to keep the status quo for 2 or 3 years, and after that it'd be based on performances like everyone else. I dont think UEFA would have a problem with that - its not as if we'd be asking for extra places.

A combined league would be great for the teams, and would be bound to help encourage good youngsters stay on the island rather than cross the Irish Sea.
And who knows - performances of the teams in Europe could mean we'd keep our 2 CL spots going forward...

Big Ears

thejollyrodger wrote:

The big cheer at the end of our national anthem is world renowed.

Why is it people start cheering after the second last line instead of the last , it really doesn't make sense .

Pigman II

Big Ears wrote:

Why is it people start cheering after the second last line instead of the last , it really doesn't make sense .

Its choirtus interuptus.

jonny68

In an ideal worl sure id love to see a United Ireland team (and of course country ) but i cant see it happening in the forseeable future so i voted no,anyway none of them would be good enough to play for us.........

applehunter

We have a united rugby team so I dont see why it cannot happen. MOre important to me would be an All-Ireland soccer league. Our island is not large enough to support two leagues. There are too many poor clubs in the top divisions of both leagues to make it really competitive.

Imagine if the IFA and FAI joined, imagine the mistakes they could make together.

The_B_Man

remember, if they joined together, they'd have to sack one the managers! and they'd also have to let go of some of the higher up ppl, the ppl who will have the final say on the united ireland team. its career suicide for them. aint gonna happen.

where wud we play our home games? down here or up there? the regulars wont fancy suddenly having to make a long trip to the home games. it'd b the same for them as having a home game in cardiff!

would they play 2 national anthems until phil coultier writes another gem of a song? which doesnt stir half the national pride in me that our national anthem does.

would the first teamers for NI like being demoted to the bench or even thrown off the squad for being surplus to requirements!

also, do we wanna have the same fans that forced neil lennon to retire?

illumin

The idea is great but when you go into the nitty gritty of it, its hard to see the 2 countries joining up into one international team. However i can see the 2 leagues joining together, that setanta cup could be the start of it.

Blackjack

Can't see it being worth the hassle.
How many minutes did Northern Ireland go without scoring there a while back?.

Football365 had (What I thought anyway) quite a funny analysis of the Northern Irish team today.

Chucky the tree

never work.It works in rugby because it has been like that since the beginning. Also rugby is a sport for the upper-class(historically anyway, and still is really)

you never get trouble at a rugby match. We cant say the same for soccer though. Theres no way in hell i want to be associated with the scum who follow N. ireland, its bad enough being linked with the Celtic-jersey brigade.