Webpage contracts

K!LL!@N

I guess this is as good a place as any to post.
Basically, myself and a couple of mates are looking to find clients who want webpages made.
I'm not talking rubbish webpages here.
We're talking about sites that require server-side functionality, databases etc.
Anyway, what's the best way to find clients, or let them come find us?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Killian

Enygma

I guess you could go around to places locally and build up a client base. There might not be much money in it but you'll quickly build up a portfolio that will allow you to command a higher price.
Maybe someone you know runs their own business or has some influence somewhere. Get in any way you can, just make sure you get in somewhere

acidweb

Sounds like your in the freelance business. Here are some sites which companies post requests for web sites, and you quote them a price. I advise you make yourself a quality portfolio. Even if it's just made up of personal homepages etc, if they look good, you will be taken more seriously. If your looking for a programming job, some examples of your work and script snippets would be ideal.

www.recruitmedia.co.uk
www.freelancers.net
www.scriptlance.com

Best of Luck!
Peter

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www.acid.ie

yellum

As has already been suggested, start with people that know you. Do a company website for some people you know. Put a lot of work into it. If needs be charge a small amount to get the job. Add to portfolio and repeat.

A good portfolio will get you more work. Put it online too.

Also create a few demo sites that can show off your design / database building work.

Register some urls for these demo sites if you can afford it. http://www.Joker.com and http://www.gandi.net sell cheap domain names.

Get a free hosting account from http://www.dsvr.co.uk and also from http://promo.webshowhost.com/offer.php?ID=WDPORT, this should cut down on startup costs.

You could also create some cool feature on your site that will bring you traffic. A database backed flash game or something, with Irish Celebritys getting hit by pies or something. Have your webbuilding services plastered all over that game page. Have a form on the gamepage that will allow the viewer to email a friend about it. Use viral marketing to have the word spread. See the hits come in and hopefully the prospective clients. Get yourself listed in Dmoz.org and Yahoo.ie

Tell all your friends about your work. Offer them a sales commission if they get you clients. Just make sure they don't start harasssing people.

See if you can offer something more or better or different to all the others that are competing with you.

And good luck.

[This message has been edited by yellum (edited 17-08-2001).]

DC

Unfortunately web site development is a cut throat business. There is always someone working out of a bedroom capable of quoting at a third of what is the reasonable price.

Forming partnerships / alliances is a good way to go. Try ringing a few designers asking if they want to pass on work to you. Very often these people are good at designing graphics and brochures, but lack the necessary skills to build solid web-sites. Offer them a price they can resell at a decent profit.

How about trying to set up a popular web-site. Look at the irishfuelprices.com example. Thats just a front to drive business and advertising to the company that maintains the site, looking for more web work.

DON'T go for free/cheap hosting for your own site to cut corners. I have been in situations when talking to customers and asking them to look at my sample work, only to discover that they went to have a look at the site and found it not working. Does not go down well and can ruin the sale opportunity. Try dbaHost.com (my preferred - they know their technology) or host.ie or someone else with servers based in Ireland (so you can be sure they have full control when things go wrong).

Unfortunately customers are usually ignorant of the effort that goes into web scripting and database work and usually look only at the graphical side of things. Therefore the graphics design quality has to be good. Consider outsourcing graphic design if you think your design skills aren't up to scratch. The design may only be 10% and the scripting, database work 90%, but the 10% usually makes the sale.

Put up plenty of sites. If you have to, buy a few .com domains for £20 or so a year and put up fictional sites. Call them customers if you like. There is a fair bit of an investment in this, but if you are continually asked for a few reference sites, you may have no choice.

Try all your friends in business. Try your cousin the publican, your uncle the solicitor, etc. If they have no site, they should be easily talked into a site, even if they just pay for domain and hosting, at least its a credible reference.

Maybe try your hand at small intranet systems. Produce a timesheet, order entry, purchase order system. Even if you cannot sell it, it is there (1) as sample work when bidding for serious web development work (2) you can reuse the code for similar systems.

Finally, good luck. There is plenty of competition out there, but most of them produce muck. Produce good work and keep prices competitive and you can still go a long way.

Enygma

Just wondering DC, you working in a company in Cork? Or freelancing? or what? Possibly looking for work soon.

K!LL!@N

Thanks guys, i didn't realise this had been bumped back up. There wasn't much advice first time of asking.

Things are kind of on hold at the moment. I'm in canada on holiday but i'll be looking for a way to make money when i get home and back to college. It's me a couple of friends from college trying to make some extra cash. The main problem we have is actually trying to find someone who wants a site. We did try calling up various sex shops in dublin asking them if they would be interested in sites, but none of them were. I'm sure we'll try more enthusiasticly when we get back to college and are desperate for cash.

Anyway, cheers folks.

Killian

beaver

Some practical aspects...

If your doing this with other people, identify who does what. Five people who reckon they can all do graphics/programming/sales/marketing will not work together.

Decide who will be your sales person (if you don't have one, find one... college will have an abundance). This person calls potential clients and gets the contracts signed. (_Always_ have a contract).

Sort out who your designers and developers are. Make sure they know what they've to do... i.e. designers do the front-end, usabilty, content-layout, HTML draft and so on; developers code PHP, ASP, database stuff, etc. These people should meet with the client, prior to starting the site, to find out exactly what they want. Have a brief prepared on what you think the client might require (including samples of competitors websites). Good idea maybe to bring the sales person along again.

Design a draft of the site. Go to the client and get them to sign-off on it and say they're happy and this is what they want. Finish the design & development of the site. Get the final sign-off and launch the site, following through with any marketing you've committed to, such as search engine submissions, etc.

Make sure you don't leave the money-gathering 'til the end. You'll get screwed. Make sure it's all in the contract (there are hundreds of sample contracts on the web). Stipulate your terms in the contract... that you will provide a draft within X days, that the client must produce copy for the site Y days after signing-off on the draft, that a deposit is required before work begins, that further payment is required at sign-off on draft, that balance is required _before_ the site gets uploaded. Put in the contract that if the client doesn't supply copy after signing-off on the draft, that they're liable for the full amount to be paid by <date>. You don't need your time wasted.

In addition, you might want to consider some arrangement between the people in the group with regard to payment. You don't want someone turning around after payment and demanding that they get more than what was arranged because it took them longer than they thought.

As regards finding clients...

You're going to need a portfolio. Probably somewhere from 5 to 20+ sites that you/others in the group have produced. Make a nice looking site to display your portfolio on. Register a domain, put your site on that, and present yourself to the client as that name.

If you've got someone who can do sales for you, then s/he should get calling people and setting up meetings, etc. However, if you don't, make everyone you know aware that you're looking for web development contracts, including family, friends, collegues, friends of family, friends of friends, etc.

When the contracts start to come in, make sure you time them properly. General rule of thumb is that it's going to take you twice as long as you think, so quote that. If it's done before then, the client will be pleased. Don't jump from client to client. When you start a contract you should know how many hours it's going to take you. Try not to spend any more time than you've quoted for, as your pay is dropping significantly... i.e. if you quote 10 hours for the design, it's quite easy to spend 20 hours doodling away at it, but you're halfing the price you're worth, so don't.

Don't undersell yourself either. While you're building up a client base, quote conservatively. Sure big designers might be able to quote 70/80 quid per hour, but if you havn't had a few years experience forget about it. Charge a price that is satisfactory to you. Consider that the majority of college students earning money are gonna be doing so in Supermacs/McDonalds/wherever for 5-8 quid per hour. Now, while you have a skill, you need to show your clients that you do before you can start charging big money. So quote a bit above what your McDonalds counterparts are getting, and enjoy the fact that you're sitting in front of your machine doing what you like to do and getting paid well for it. Then just start putting the price up as you go.

I've kinda rambled a bit...

Anyway, HTH,
-Ross

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When I was young my mother told me not to look into the sun; so once, when I was six, I did...

yellum

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by beaver:

When I was young my mother told me not to look into the sun; so once, when I was six, I did...
</font>

Heh, thats a good movie. Got it on dvd.

DC

Enygma,

Got an email other than your work one that I can send details to? Send it to larkinc@oceanfree.net if you want.