[article] At Last! Common sense speaking from a Cop!

mike65

All drivers know Guards never bother detecting speeders in an honest fair way as they line up targets on the safest sections of roads or in areas with foolishly low max limits, now a cop has noted the policies should change.

from indo

GARDAI on traffic patrol should not have to hide behind hedges and bus stops to chalk up detections as a means of measuring their performance, writes Tom Brady. The conference was told that the force's strategy on the enforcement of traffic regulations appeared to be based on detection only. And the more numbers they generated, the better it appeared they were doing. Richard Lyons, the sergeant in charge of the road transport unit at Dublin Castle, argued that prevention was better than cure and in every aspect of overt policing the fundamental strategy was to prevent first and detect afterwards. He pointed out that in the years 1999, 2000 and 2001 the number of people killed on the roads had remained fairly static while the number of speeding detections had increased dramatically from 178,000 to 272,000 without any apparent impact on the death toll over the same period.

Yet in 2003 the number of speeding notices issued had fallen to 157,000 in the first full year of penalty points but the road fatality toll had fallen to an all-time low.

Mr Lyons said detections should be part of an overall strategy but should not be examined in isolation as a means of assessment.

Now if the commissioner could be persuaded of same...

Mike.

LFCFan

Duh! Speed traps are merely there for revenue generation and to make it 'look' like the Gardai are doing something about road safety. What is needed is a greater Garda presense on the roads. I have yet to see any of the new Traffic Corps on the roads? Do they even exist? If people were constantly seeing Gardai on the roads (in full view, not hiding behind bushes) they'd be a lot more inclined to stick to the speed limit and drive safely. The vast majority of road fatalities seem to be at night though, so something needs to be done to tackle drink driving and people falling asleep at the wheel.

mike65

Some more from utv

The Annual Conference of the AGSI in Kilkenny heard that conflict is being created between gardaí and the public because of pressure to dispense tickets, and the practise risks damaging the credibility of the force.

Delegates heard of cases where gardaí apologised to motorists for issuing tickets for driving just a few kilometres over the speed limit and called for discretionary powers.

The head of the Garda Road Transport unit said different enforcement policies should be measured and those that are not working should be abandoned.

Garda sergeants and inspectors are also proposing small traffic units in each region in a bid to ensure safer driving and fewer deaths.

The conference heard that the force needs to concentrate on making the roads safer, not penalising those committing minor traffic offences.

Mike.

Victor

LFCFan wrote:

Duh! Speed traps are merely there for revenue generation and to make it 'look' like the Gardai are doing something about road safety.

So how much money did they make from issueing tickets?

LFCFan

Victor wrote:

So how much money did they make from issueing tickets?

what's the point in hiding and having speed traps in places that are unwarranted if it's not for getting as many fines as possible. A lot of it's probably to do with 'making up the numbers' but surely each fine doesn't cost more to administer then they get back??? If it does then there is some seriously bad management going on there.

seamus

Victor wrote:

So how much money did they make from issueing tickets?

€10,160,000 in 2003

We'll say stationery and postage costs €160,000, therefore profit is €10 million. Cost of manpower is already paid for by us.

Rough Estimate, multiplying 157,000 by €80

LFCFan

seamus wrote:

€10,160,000 in 2003

We'll say stationery and postage costs €160,000, therefore profit is €10 million. Cost of manpower is already paid for by us.

Rough Estimate, multiplying 157,000 by €80

and if they can't make a profit from that scenario there is some serious mismanagement going on. Maybe Victor can give us some better insight into the situation????

DubTony

seamus wrote:

€10,160,000 in 2003

We'll say stationery and postage costs €160,000, therefore profit is €10 million. Cost of manpower is already paid for by us.

Rough Estimate, multiplying 157,000 by €80

Well, Victor ??????


Tony

Victor

See the Comptroller & Auditor General's report on fines.

Bee

The associated commisioner should be sacked for the farce that is speed detection in Ireland.The tickets issued is dare I say it? A "cop out" for when the Dept is sucking up to the Minister and showing what a good job they are not doing, but hey! who cares when you can prove how good your detection is and to hell with reducing fatalities.

When will we ever learn that speed has little to do with road carnage?

It is the inappropriate use of speed coupled with virtually zero policing on what causes fatal accidents + madcap road mis-design that creates the fatalities.

Good to see some sensible Gardai speaking the truth

Bee

seamus

Victor wrote:

See the Comptroller & Auditor General's report on fines.

No link?

Crossley

The real issue isn't so much concerned about increasing fines revenue but instead having an increasing number of detections which can be used to political advantage i.e. we issued 10% more fines therefore we're doing great things for road safety. Not true as we all know but data like this can be used by politicians to avoid tackling the real road safety issues like driver training and licencing , enforcement of ALL driving offences (not just a narrow subset) and vehicle safety.

Capt'n Midnight

On the Radio this am they said that one hospital has noticed a dramatic drop in the number of road related injuries since penalty points came in.

LFCFan

maybe this points to the fact that road deaths (which haven't really gone down much overall) are not caused by speeding, more inappropriate speed, bad roads, drinking, sleep deprivation, driver error etc etc, while speeding related accidents that may result more in injuried rather then death, have decreased because of penalty points???

Victor

seamus wrote:

No link?

http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=481&&CatID=5&StartDate=1+January+2005

BrianD

Personally, I think the notion of speeding fines being revenue generating is ridiculous and unwarranted. It's just sour grapes and a poor excuse by those who have been caught speeding.

Bee - you are only fooling yourself if you do not believe that speed is directly related to road incidents. Of course it does!

Having said that, we have a lazy police force when it comes to traffic enforcement. It seems that there is more going through the motions to chalk up the quota then active enforcement of traffic laws. There should be a reasonable "fear" amongst motorists that they will be caught anywhere for speeding, breathalised anywhere or pulled up for the slightest of offences. This is my experience in other countries but certainly not in Ireland.

In regard to covert speed traps - the cops in Australia have a novel idea. Cop hides behinf billboard somewhere and a short distance after the 'trap' there is a police sign on the side of the road saying 'Police - your speed has been checked". This has the advantage of a random surprise check on speed and making motorists aware that enforcement is active. There is little point in having covert speed detection without the driver being aware that they exist.