Fergie Voted Greatest Manager of all time.

The Muppet

Ferguson pips Clough as the all-time best
Nick Harris

24 March 2005

Sir Alex Ferguson has been voted by his peers as the greatest-ever manager of an English club in an extensive poll of League managers conducted by Tissot, a key sponsor of the League Managers' Association.

Ferguson has guided Manchester United to eight Premiership titles, five FA Cup wins, one League Cup win and a European Cup since taking up his current job in 1986. He gained almost twice as many votes as the second-placed Brian Clough, who famously took Nottingham Forest from the old Second Division in 1977 to become back-to-back winners of the European Cup in 1979 and 1980.

While many fans might regard that velvet period under Clough at the City Ground as the single greatest managerial achievement, Ferguson's peers have judged his longevity and success in arguably a much more pressured era to surpass it. Clough was comfortably ahead of all other contenders, including Matt Busby, Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley and Arsène Wenger.

While on Tuesday, United's chief executive, David Gill, was pushed into conceding that Ferguson "is sackable", he later clarified that, saying "replacing him has never even crossed our minds". But the mere suggestion of replacement at some future stage has already re-ignited the debate about Ferguson's future, with bookmakers offering odds of little over evens that he will have departed his job before the end of next season. Ferguson can at least take solace in knowing fellow managers regard him so highly.

Tissot, who assisted The Independent in this week's separate survey on managers' working lives, also asked current managers about potential managerial successes of the future.

Wigan's Paul Jewell was voted the most likely manager currently outside the top flight to succeed in the Premiership and on this season's form that should be little surprise. Jewell is currently ranked as the sixth-best manager in the country, across all divisions, in the Tissot League Table of Managers' Performance.

This system was devised for the LMA to allow managers from every level of League football to be measured, taking into account every competitive game. Chelsea's Jose Mourinho is currently top, followed by Wenger, Ferguson, Luton's Mike Newell, Hull's Peter Taylor and Jewell. Four other non-Premiership managers make up the top 10. Only three Premiership managers appear in places 11-20, with Graeme Souness in 12th, Martin Jol in 15th and Rafael Benitez 19th.

Whether Alan Shearer or Roy Keane ever become managers remains to be seen, but the Newcastle and Manchester United captains have been voted by current managers as the most likely players to succeed in management. Gareth Southgate came third, ahead of Gary Neville, Teddy Sheringham, Gary Speed and Martin Keown.


Source http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/man_united/story.jsp?story=623058


Well deserved honour IMO. As a fan that has supported United since the early 70s I could not praise Fergie highly enough for the changes he made to the club not to mention his achievements at Aberdeen. He will always be a Legend to United fans.

egan007

I'm baffelled as to how bob paisley or bill shankley did not get near clough

"Clough was comfortably ahead of all other contenders, including Matt Busby, Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley and Arsène Wenger."

Ardent

What a load of ballacks.

Bob Paisley:

1975-76 - League Champions, UEFA Cup
1976-77 - League Champions, European Cup, FA Cup finalists
1977-78 - European Cup, European Super Cup, League Cup finalists
1978-79 - League Champions
1979-80 - League Champions
1980-81 - European Cup, League Cup
1981-82 - League Champions, League Cup
1982-83 - League Champions, League Cup

( all above with Liverpool )

In addition to the above honours, Bob Paisley's Liverpool also
finished as league runners-up twice,
won the Charity Shield on 5 occasions,
reached 2 F.A. Cup semi finals and 1 League Cup semi final.

During Paisley's reign, Liverpool set an all-time record of 85 home games unbeaten, in all competitions. This run included 63 league matches, also a league record, and stretched over 3 years from January 1978 to January 1981.

So that's

3 X European Cup
1 X UEFA Cup
6 X League Championship
3 X League Cup
2 X European Super Cup

Certain people have been knighted for less.

mr_angry

It all seems pretty straightforward. In terms of continuous success, Ferguson is pretty much top of the tree. And I think the reason that Clough is so far clear in second place is because he guided unfashionable Nottingham Forest to successive European Cups. Granted, Liverpool had some great teams aswell, but vastly greater resources than Forest. Its like having the Man City of today manage that achievement.

meditraitor

Ardent wrote:

What a load of ballacks.



So that's

3 X European Cup
1 X UEFA Cup
6 X League Championship
3 X League Cup
2 X European Super Cup

Certain people have been knighted for less.

Enough Said

midget lord

mr_angry wrote:

It all seems pretty straightforward. In terms of continuous success, Ferguson is pretty much top of the tree.

In terms of league success, certainly, but if ferguson could trade in some of his league success for european success i doubt there would be much hesitation.

colster

Ardent wrote:

What a load of ballacks.



So that's

3 X European Cup
1 X UEFA Cup
6 X League Championship
3 X League Cup
2 X European Super Cup

Certain people have been knighted for less.

You have to remember that Ferguson built United from scratch. Paisley took over Liverpool when they were already a successful club with a lot of the ground work done by Shankly.

Badabing

Should be Jock Stein, Celtic first british team to win european cup, all players born in glasgow or just outside and celtic won the Quaddruple

midget lord

Badabing wrote:

Should be Jock Stein, Celtic first british team to win european cup, all players born in glasgow or just outside and celtic won the Quaddruple

Gerry Adams for Taoiseach.

smackbunnybaby

Badabing wrote:

Should be Jock Stein, Celtic first british team to win european cup, all players born in glasgow or just outside and celtic won the Quaddruple

i agree.
jock stein - 1965-1978

scottish cups 8
leagues 11
league cups 6
euro cup 1
i think this is accurate?!

as well as being runner up pretty much every other year.
thats 26 cups in 13 years, or 2 a season.
scotland was competitive then as well.

super_furry

Ardent wrote:

What a load of ballacks.



So that's

3 X European Cup
1 X UEFA Cup
6 X League Championship
3 X League Cup
2 X European Super Cup

Certain people have been knighted for less.

That doesn't count though because it took place B.S.S. (Before Sky Sports). To the modern football 'fan' anything that occured before the glorious Sky Sports Premiership never really happened.

There's about a dozen managers I could think of more deserving that Ferguson.

Ardent

Super furry, of course, how silly of me. Football didn't exist before 1992.

SteM

Badabing wrote:

Should be Jock Stein, Celtic first british team to win european cup, all players born in glasgow or just outside and celtic won the Quaddruple

Lads read the piece will you?

Sir Alex Ferguson has been voted by his peers as the greatest-ever manager of an English club in an extensive poll of League managers conducted by Tissot, a key sponsor of the League Managers' Association.

midget lord

Ardent wrote:

Football didn't exist before 1992.

I think you meant 1892

Emmo

Paisley was there helping to build Liverpool from the ground. He was part of the bootroom.

Those accolades are not the claim of anyone man, every man woman and child associated with the club should claim those as there own.

In the case of longevity Shankley should take the trophy as he was the man with the vision to bring in the support and then attitude the 1st was 1st and 2nd was nothing.

He signed players that others dismissed, he built a relationship with the fans that meant they where the peoples team in Liverpool.

He took Liverpool from the 2nd Divison (old proper 2nd Divison) to the heights of Europe.

This is ridicolous, if its pure trophies that it is judged on then it has to go to Paisley and if its actually down to setting up a continueing winning team and setup then it has to go to Shanks.

This is just another example of anti-scouse Media.

Emmo

Ardent

Emmo wrote:

Paisley was there helping to build Liverpool from the ground. He was part of the bootroom.

Those accolades are not the claim of anyone man, every man woman and child associated with the club should claim those as there own.

In the case of longevity Shankley should take the trophy as he was the man with the vision to bring in the support and then attitude the 1st was 1st and 2nd was nothing.

He signed players that others dismissed, he built a relationship with the fans that meant they where the peoples team in Liverpool.

He took Liverpool from the 2nd Divison (old proper 2nd Divison) to the heights of Europe.

This is ridicolous, if its pure trophies that it is judged on then it has to go to Paisley and if its actually down to setting up a continueing winning team and setup then it has to go to Shanks.

This is just another example of anti-scouse Media.

Emmo

Bingo.

SteM

Emmo wrote:

This is ridicolous, if its pure trophies that it is judged on then it has to go to Paisley and if its actually down to setting up a continueing winning team and setup then it has to go to Shanks.

This is just another example of anti-scouse Media.

Emmo

But was it not voted for by the other league managers? What's that got to do with 'anti-scouse media'? LOL.

The Muppet

Emmo wrote:

In the case of longevity Shankley should take the trophy as he was the man with the vision to bring in the support and then attitude the 1st was 1st and 2nd was nothing.

He signed players that others dismissed, he built a relationship with the fans that meant they where the peoples team in Liverpool.

He took Liverpool from the 2nd Divison (old proper 2nd Divison) to the heights of Europe.

Erm what heights of Europe did Shankly bring Liverpool to?

Emmo wrote:

This is ridicolous, if its pure trophies that it is judged on then it has to go to Paisley and if its actually down to setting up a continueing winning team and setup then it has to go to Shanks.

This is just another example of anti-scouse Media.

Emmo

Not Bingo at all but a false alarm.

The poll has nothing to do with the media, it was existing managers that voted Fergie top by a mile.

Sir Alex Ferguson has been voted by his peers as the greatest-ever manager of an English club in an extensive poll of League managers conducted by Tissot,

Ardent

SteM wrote:

But was it not voted for by the other league managers? What's that got to do with 'anti-scouse media'? LOL.

It just is, OK?!

Emmo

What because managers look after football teams they are immune to the media's influence.

If your going to poke holes in my arguement you could have said that Ferguson combined longevity and trohphies but to say that???

Cmon your better than that, arent you?

Emmo

EDIT in reply to to The Muppet (dont mean the in a insulting capacity by the way)

Shankley created the bootroom, Liverpool used this to plan all their greatest campaigns. He also instilled the ideals of winning, and winning again. This was the basis of the European cups that he won.

If people credit Alex Ferguson for the fortunate but entirely unintentional way in which United managed to bring through 5 first teamers from their youth set up and managed to win a European cup with a great degree of luck then I wish to use the same basis to credit Shankly with the change to mentality in Liverpool.

Thanks

Emmo

Ardent

The Muppet wrote:

Erm what heights of Europe did Shankly bring Liverpool to?

He won the UEFA Cup with Liverpool in '73.

PHB

Fergie is the most recent of the great managers, thus he will of course get called the greatest manager of all time, just like in 20 years time when some other guy comes along and does the same for some other team, we will hear the same situation.

The Muppet

Emmo wrote:

If your going to poke holes in my arguement you could have said that Ferguson combined longevity and trohphies but to say that???

What argument is this all I saw was a wild allegation blaming the media. As was pointed out to you the media had nothing to do with the poll. You shouldtry reading the article Shankly and Paisley get a mention futher down the page after Cloughie..

Ardent wrote:

He won the UEFA Cup with Liverpool in '73.

The EUFA cup was never the "heights of europe" the european cup was the highest european trophy of the time and Shanks never won that. No disrespect to Shankly he was a Great manager .

p.pete

Well done to Sir Alex .

Ardent

The Muppet wrote:

The EUFA cup was never the "heights of europe"

Haha, Emmet rightly stated that Shankly brought Liverpool to the top table of European football and you're desperately back-pedalling over your statement that he didn't by now insinuating that the UEFA Cup is/was a tin-pot trophy in comparison to the European Cup. Nice one. Pedantry at it's best.

Anyway, back to Bob and Alex.

Emmo

The team that won the first Liverpool trophy for Liverpool was choc full of players that Shankley had signed and was managed by Shanks right hand man.

How can anyone say he had nothing to do with that?

The media influence is quite apparent, football started in 1992 with the Premiership if you belive sky.

United are called all conquering and Chelsea regarded as part of the big 3 (in truth it should be big 2!) when Liverpool are still the most succesful side in England despite being in decline for 15 years!

Am I lead to belive that anti-scouse media, and then media in general can be avoided and even ignored if you manage a football team?

To quote Emelyn Hughes

"I remember walking up those steps to lift the cup and I felt privileged to do so. I was not thinking about myself, Kevin Keegan or the rest of the lads who’d just won the match. The names that were flashing through my mind were the likes of Roger Hunt, Ian St John and Ron Yeats, Shanks and Rueben Bennett. These were the men who had given us the chance to win the European Cup and who had put us in the position that we were in. As I reached out to collect the cup I knew that it was as much for them as for us."

Emmo

super_furry

PHB wrote:

Fergie is the most recent of the great managers, thus he will of course get called the greatest manager of all time, just like in 20 years time when some other guy comes along and does the same for some other team, we will hear the same situation.

That's true enough, it's the same with music. Fergie is the Oasis of the football world.

The Muppet

Ardent wrote:

Haha, Emmet rightly stated that Shankly brought Liverpool to the top table of European football and you're desperately back-pedalling over your statement that he didn't by now insinuating that the UEFA Cup is/was a tin-pot trophy in comparison to the European Cup. Nice one. Pedantry at it's best.

Anyway, back to Bob and Alex.

Pleas don't try put words in my mouth. I had noting to back pedal from as I only asked a question. The European Cup is the fore runner to the current Champions League which was then and is now the highest european accolade.
I was just looking to clarify what he meant by "the heights of europe". I was well aware that Shankly had taken Liverpool into europe as I would have been watching the matches at the time.

Pigman II

So English league managers rate a guy who won ONE european cup with an already massive club over another manager who won TWO europeans cups with a club languishing in the lower leagues when he took over?

No wonder their national coach is a foriegner!

A Dub in Glasgo

As good as AF is, I do believe Paisley should have edged him out in this one. If it was the best British manager of all time, AF would come 2nd behind Stein

Jivin Turkey

Its took Ferguson five years to win a trophy, and eight before he won a league title did it not?

Given he is in the job 20 years, I dont think 8 league titles and 1 European Cup should be considered the greatest managerial achievement of all-time.

Ardent

The Muppet wrote:

Pleas don't try put words in my mouth. I had noting to back pedal from as I only asked a question. The European Cup is the fore runner to the current Champions League which was then and is now the highest european accolade.
I was just looking to clarify what he meant by "the heights of europe". I was well aware that Shankly had taken Liverpool into europe as I would have been watching the matches at the time.

I'm only messing with you, I know what you meant. I just don't agree with it.

If Shankly had brought Liverpool into Europe and they never made it past the first couple of rounds ever you could say it was still a great achievement considering where they came from under him.

But for them to win the UEFA Cup, I think it's fair statement for Emmet to make by saying that he brought them from old 2nd division to "the heights of Europe".

A Dub in Glasgo

AF is by far the best English Premiership manager of all time, I think some people forget that there was football life before the Premiership though

Emmo

Also please bare in mind that considering Liverpool only won the European Cup for the first time in 1977 that winning the Cup Winners Cup was the hight of European excellence!

Emmo

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

SteM

ziggy67 wrote:

Fergie built a team from scratch Eh no, but Busby did, almost literally!

He didn't build a team from scratch? So he inherited a treble winning side that dominated English football for a long stretch from Ron Atkinson, is that what you're saying? Make no mistake, it may have taken him a while but he certainly did build that side from scratch.

yop

Top manager, well deserving of it, voted by the managers themselves, the people in the know.

Thanx 4 The Fish

How many of the current managers worked with AF, that I feel is why he got the best manager. His achievements:years ratio is not great and surely that should be a basis for any decision and not just whether you worked with the guy or you can't remember anything before 1992.

As for that people in the know comment, I will remind you of that in future yop

p.pete

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

How many of the current managers worked with AF, that I feel is why he got the best manager. His achievements:years ratio is not great and surely that should be a basis for any decision and not just whether you worked with the guy or you can't remember anything before 1992.

Then you also have several foreign managers who could throw some unusual names into the hat - I wonder who Benitez and Wenger voted for???

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

mike65

Paisley is deffo the top club manager in the history of the game - anywhere. The blinding glare of the cups and shields in the Liverpool "booty" room tell you that. PPl really do have short memories these days.

I'd say the foreign coaches all voted Fergie as they are familair with his achievments (which are great at a domestic level).

Ol big 'ed must be quite angry he did'nt come first!

Mike.

Emmo

Guess its true what they say,

there is no accounting for taste
That said Shanks was voted the greatest ever manager before. A survey conducted by FourFourTwo, early 2000 saw Shanks win the accolade as the greatest ever manager.

The readers of the magazine were polled and asked to name their top three managers, in order of preference. The results, published in the April 2000 edition of the magazine, put Shanks first, Sir Alex Ferguson 2nd and Brian Clough 3rd.

Stole some of the above from a Shanks website after I checked it out, paraphrased parts of it too. Wasnt clear on the policy of linking.

so there you go,

Emmo

cournioni

How many managers have won the Premiership, the FA Cup and the European Cup all in one season? Answer that please.

And please don't start going on about mickey mouse cups, we've heard enough of that over the years.

midget lord

PORNAPSTER wrote:

How many managers have won the Premiership, the FA Cup and the European Cup all in one season? Answer that please.

I see your treble and raise you three european cups in 5 seasons.

p.pete

PORNAPSTER wrote:

And please don't start going on about mickey mouse cups, we've heard enough of that over the years.

Liverpool never one the Milk/Carling/Coca-Cola/Rumbelows/... Cup until about 1980 so it certainly wasn't the bedrock of achievement for Shanks or Paisley. I'd like to nominate Mourinho however - less than 1 season and already one cup

SteM

ziggy67 wrote:

Yes he replaced some players but you can't compare that to what Busby did

I feel that he's as deserving as anyone that's been mentioned.

Ferguson built 2 sides that dominated English football since the early 90s.
Over a 14 year stretch they won 8 League Titles, 5 FA Cups, the European Cup Winners Cup and the European Cup. 3 of those were wins were in one season - no other manager has done that.

Now, remember that the people who were voting for this were English club managers. It doesn't surprise me that Fergie won it to be honest, most of these types of polls are won by the last great *whatever* that's being voted on. If this poll is conducted in 50 years time Fergie probably won't win it but then neither will Clough or Shankley, it'll be won by some other manager who's had a period of domination around the time of the vote.

I remember Radiohead's 'OK Computer' won a lot of End Of Century best of album polls. It was a great album but not the best one IMO but it was stuck in the public consciousness so people voted for it.

mewso

You should disqualify yourself from this discussion if you are a Liverpool fan shouting for Paisley or Shankly or a Man U fan lauding over Fergie. Bring some objectivity to the table. Of course Cloughy should have gotten it.

SteM

musician wrote:

You should disqualify yourself from this discussion if you are a Liverpool fan shouting for Paisley or Shankly or a Man U fan lauding over Fergie. Bring some objectivity to the table.

LOL.

p.pete

Howard Kendall anyone? he would have won Europe had it been an option...

Ardent

SteM wrote:

If this poll is conducted in 50 years time Fergie probably won't win it but then neither will Clough or Shankley, it'll be won by some other manager who's had a period of domination around the time of the vote.

I remember Radiohead's 'OK Computer' won a lot of End Of Century best of album polls. It was a great album but not the best one IMO but it was stuck in the public consciousness so people voted for it.

I hear ya but it's not like it was young kids voting in this poll, it was current managers in the Premiership allegedly, guys with an average age of 50 or so. I'm surprised by the result to be honest.

Strange - looking at the League Manager's Association official website, Tissot are running a League Table of Managers' Performance for the 4th Quarter in season 2004 - 2005.

http://www.leaguemanagers.com/awards/tissot-league.html

Mourinho first, McCarthy second, Ferguson not even in the top 20! I don't know how these guys conduct their surveys.

The Muppet

Ardent wrote:

I hear ya but it's not like it was young kids voting in this poll, it was current managers in the Premiership allegedly, guys with an average age of 50 or so. I'm surprised by the result to be honest.

I,m not, Fergies is the most sucessfull manager of all time bar none. Ok Paisely won more European cups but at the time it was a shadow of the competition it is today. Taking nothing away from Paisleys achievement but that is fact.

Fergie has won more that twice the amount of silverware than Paisley did and he did it at two clubs building his own squads a number of times , Paisley inherited an already successful team. Ok it took Fergie longer to start winning but his starting point was a lot lower that Paisleys.

As Stem said Fergies was voted top by the other league managers and they should know.

End Of