Fergie Voted Greatest Manager of all time.

p.pete

psi wrote:

One UK pundit, noticed that the change in FA approach to such carry on, notably in the Furor over his tapping up of Bellion, has coincided with a lack of youth coming through United's ranks and their subsequent loss of the PL stranglehold.

So yeah, United's actual youth acadamy is a poor compared to other clubs in the country and only seemed to be doing well because Fergie pinched already developing players from other clubs.

Hmmm? would you say this has coinsided with a larger contingent of foreign players in United's youth ranks in recent years? Fair enough high profile players like Ronaldo who they pay good money for but I'm sure there's other examples....

GuanYin

The Muppet wrote:

I'm not biting P Pete. I would remind you that to join any club you have to sign a consentual contract. You could have come up with something less childish TBH ,

N.G {Must Try Harder}:D .

The difference is that its a minor signing a contract and youth contracts aren't protected. In those days the nursery club got alot less for a stolen player than nowadays, although its still not perfect.

The Muppet

psi wrote:

United's "Youth Policy" basically revolves around scouting the best young talent and then, if they're at a lesser club, tap the player up.

.

Would you like to provide proof of that, Beckham is the only one I can recall that united were found guilty of " tapping up", . Giggs was training with City {in a United jersey under his City one I may add } but he was not on a contract so was a free agent. You can only tap players up if they are on a contract, if they are not they are available to sign for who ever offers a contract.

GuanYin

p.pete wrote:

Hmmm? would you say this has coinsided with a larger contingent of foreign players in United's youth ranks in recent years? Fair enough high profile players like Ronaldo who they pay good money for but I'm sure there's other examples....

Well Fletcher and Brown would probably be the only noticable first teamers to actually come through the United Ranks since the Nevilles. Even then, one should note that most of Uniteds players came from the "Greater Manchester" schooboy side, which is very different from the Man Utd youth academy.

So yes, they've basically bought in foreigners these past few years (at least all their better players) and with the exception of Rooney, who you couldn't really call "stolen" but whose transfer from Everton was less than above board (the same situation as Giggs except with alot more money).


That said, Arsenal have done effectively the same thing with Viera and Anelka, but at least they never claimed otherwise.

GuanYin

The Muppet wrote:

Would you like to provide proof of that, Beckham is the only one I can recall that united were found guilty of " tapping up", . Giggs was training with City {in a United jersey under his City one I may add } but he was not on a contract so was a free agent. You can only tap players up if they are on a contract, if they are not they are available to sign for who ever offers a contract.

You just answered your own question with one example. Bellion was tapped up aswell, [edit] allegedly Saha too.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

meditraitor

For anyone who is interested in the statistics and the result in accordance with pure statistics with regards to the most successful manager in english football link below ....

http://www.the-english-football-archive.com/awards/most_successful_manager.htm

The Muppet

psi wrote:

You just answered your own question with one example. Bellion was tapped up aswell, [edit] allegedly Saha too.

Saha was youth when we signed him thats news to me and er bellion yeah he has been very influential in our success , what does either player have to do with Uniteds youth policy in the 90's? . If thats the strength of your proof you really are clutching at straws. I take it as a gross over exaggeration of the facts to say Uniteds youth policy that their success was built on was due to stealing or tapping up players and Ihave yet to see the evidence posted to support that claim.

SteM

ziggy67 wrote:

And lets not kid ourselves here, all clubs tap up but Ferguson has done more tapping than a blind mans stick!

:rolleyes:

Glad to see that this has just turned into another 'lets slag someone we hate without providing any proof' thread. Seems to be plenty around these days.

GuanYin

The Muppet wrote:

Saha was youth when we signed him thats news to me and er bellion yeah he has been very influential in our success , what does either player have to do with Uniteds youth policy in the 90's? . If thats the strength of your proof you really are clutching at straws. I take it as a gross over exaggeration of the facts to say Uniteds youth policy that their success was built on was due to stealing or tapping up players and Ihave yet to see the evidence posted to support that claim.

I'd forgotten about Nicky Butt (Oldham) as another one pinched.

Did you read my post? I did point out that the change in FA stance on tapping up youth players has severely effected united to the point where they now have to buy in all their players.

If they really did have such an excellent training academy, why has it suddenly gone dry? Compared to the talent coming through other clubs, if United had such a good youth coaching system in the 90's, why haven't they produced a first team home grown player from their youth academy in nearly half a decade or more?

I mean Spector was signed from the US, Fletcher only signed for United as a trainee in 2000 (he wasn't a youth product, he came from the Greater Manchester Schoolboy Academy) which leaves only Brown, who also came from GMSA, but admittedly, at a younger age and was never a united schoolboy, he signed as a trainee.

There have been no shortage of players coming through other youth systems, so why has the great united academy dryed up?

Probably because it never really existed. Fergie, signed youth players produced by other clubs and acadmies and supplimented with the odd hit from local teams which he took on at trainee level.

Thats very different from taking someone on at U14 or U15 and nurturing them as the real youth academies do.

As for Saha, Rooney and Stam et al, well that was more to highlight the current approach adopted by united (which is still tapping up).

meditraitor

meditraitor wrote:

For anyone who is interested in the statistics and the result in accordance with pure statistics with regards to the most successful manager in english football link below ....

http://www.the-english-football-archive.com/awards/most_successful_manager.htm

Dont like being repetitive, but the fact that fergy is not the greatest manager of all time should put an end to this thread........

close it and move on boys

GuanYin

SteM wrote:

:rolleyes:

Glad to see that this has just turned into another 'lets slag someone we hate without providing any proof' thread. Seems to be plenty around these days.

How so, as I already pointed out, the other club who notably take this route is Arsenal, the only difference is, noone actually suggests that Wenger has fashioned a fantastic youth team.

SteM

psi wrote:

How so, as I already pointed out, the other club who notably take this route is Arsenal, the only difference is, noone actually suggests that Wenger has fashioned a fantastic youth team.

How did a thread about Ferguson winning a vote by other league managers end up with this sort of nonsense? My reply was to ziggy67 whose only comment in this thread has been:

I know he wasn't a youth player but Stam was tapped up.

And lets not kid ourselves here, all clubs tap up but Ferguson has done more tapping than a blind mans stick!

Very helpful to the original discussion I must say.

Good to see that you've hijacked the thread to point out your obvious dislike for a man too. I think we get the idea now:

United = Evil
Ferguson = Devil.

Please, move on.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Take it

This thread went way off topic!!

The way I see it Europe is the most important factor here

Fact
Paisley won 3 E.C
Fergeson has won 1 C.L

---

Now Muppet has try to discredit Paisleys E.C wins

Why?

You say it didn’t take as many games to win? yet United only won 6 games to win the C.L in 1999

You say the C.L is harder due to them letting top teams in yet clubs like Liverpool and Everton who have not won 16 of there 31 games are being fighting for a place in the C.L??? it the same in the Spanish league Seville and Espanyol not winning 16 of there 30 games, Italian league they have not won 15 of there 29 games Udinese and Sapdoria. I'm not going to go through them all but I’m sure you get my point that these teams do not deserve to be in the C.L yet they have a chance of winning it as united showed it only takes 6 games to do so! Hell Liverpool’s in the quarter finals tonight!!

You constantly bring up the Crusaders point yet United had Brøndby in there group a team that united put 11 past in two games

You say the C.L league is harder yet you can lose away and at home to a team and still be in the competition Porto last year lost at home 3-1 and drew 1-1 away to Real Madrid if this was knock out they would have been out, United in the year they won it had 3-3 draw at home and away to barca this game would have gone to extra time who knows what could have happened?

From these points of view I can't understand how you consider the C.L to be a tougher competition

Also I really don’t understand how you don't agree that Paisley and Liverpool DOMINATED Europe during his time, when anyone looks back over the years of the E.C Liverpool is a name that is ALWAYS mentioned as a team that once dominated Europe 3 E.C and a UEFA cup in 9 years, even if you were just to say 3 words to football fan: European cup, football and domination and ask them to mention a club you are nearly guaranteed they will say Liverpool. I have no doubt that if Fergy had of won 2 C.L in 9 years Man U fans would say they Dominated Europe.

dirkey_wynne

meditraitor wrote:

Dont like being repetitive, but the fact that fergy is not the greatest manager of all time should put an end to this thread........

close it and move on boys

Fact? How is it fact? Because of that link you posted? Doesn't make it fact I'm afraid. The only FACT of this thread is that the managers of England voted Fergie the greatest English club side manager of all time. That's fact.

TheMonster

So why do the majority of English Managers think he was the best then? Are you suggesting you might know more then them. They are all old enough(I would imagine) to remember what Liverpool did and yet the majority do not agree with you. I wonder why - did you ever consider you may not be right?

Take it wrote:

This thread went way off topic!!

The way I see it Europe is the most important factor here

Fact
Paisley won 3 E.C
Fergeson has won 1 C.L

---

Now Muppet has try to discredit Paisleys E.C wins

Why?

You say it didn’t take as many games to win? yet United only won 6 games to win the C.L in 1999

You say the C.L is harder due to them letting top teams in yet clubs like Liverpool and Everton who have not won 16 of there 31 games are being fighting for a place in the C.L??? it the same in the Spanish league Seville and Espanyol not winning 16 of there 30 games, Italian league they have not won 15 of there 29 games Udinese and Sapdoria. I'm not going to go through them all but I’m sure you get my point that these teams do not deserve to be in the C.L yet they have a chance of winning it as united showed it only takes 6 games to do so! Hell Liverpool’s in the quarter finals tonight!!

You constantly bring up the Crusaders point yet United had Brøndby in there group a team that united put 11 past in two games

You say the C.L league is harder yet you can lose away and at home to a team and still be in the competition Porto last year lost at home 3-1 and drew 1-1 away to Real Madrid if this was knock out they would have been out, United in the year they won it had 3-3 draw at home and away to barca this game would have gone to extra time who knows what could have happened?

From these points of view I can't understand how you consider the C.L to be a tougher competition

Also I really don’t understand how you don't agree that Paisley and Liverpool DOMINATED Europe during his time, when anyone looks back over the years of the E.C Liverpool is a name that is ALWAYS mentioned as a team that once dominated Europe 3 E.C and a UEFA cup in 9 years, even if you were just to say 3 words to football fan: European cup, football and domination and ask them to mention a club you are nearly guaranteed they will say Liverpool. I have no doubt that if Fergy had of won 2 C.L in 9 years Man U fans would say they Dominated Europe.

Take it

What are you talking about monster??? Am I not allowed an opinion! you haven't added to the discussion at all! nor answered my questions.

I think you will find I have NEVER stated that fergy shouldn't have got he got it fair play to him, I am just stating that I (me, a single person, free to express MY opinion) feel its impossible to compare the achievements of BP winning a totally different E.C 3 time then fergy wining a C.L once, I simply argue the point that Muppet discredits paisley wins of the E.C which I feel is ridiculous you can't just discredit these trophies.

The Muppet

Take it wrote:

I simply argue the point that Muppet discredits paisley wins of the E.C which I feel is ridiculous you can't just discredit these trophies.

Thats the second time you have said that , can you show me where I sad anything negative about Paisley.

Take it wrote:

Am I not allowed an opinion! .

Indeed you are just as I am allowed express the opinion that The CL isd harder to win than the old EC. An opinion that even some liverpool supporters have conceded is right I may add.

case n basket

Personally I believe the CL is marginally more difficult to win than the old EC. Having said that, 3 wins of the EC still pisses all over 1 CL win. If Ferguson is the greatest manager of an English team of all time, then a team with United's financial muscle should have a lot more than 1 CL.

The Muppet

case n basket wrote:

Personally I believe the CL is marginally more difficult to win than the old EC.

Fair play to you for admitting that, That is the core point I made in the early stages of this thread that has led us to where we are now.

I do not agree with the rest of you post especially as I have shown that from 1994 to 2001 Uniteds most sucessful period Liverpool actually spent $15 million more than united did on transfers but as I said fair dues for being honest about the core issue.

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

My source is the internet, all the information is out there if you bothered researching before posting instead of just posting non factual rubbish. The reason I didn't go up to 2001 is that we are tallking about the stupid notion that fergie baught his success and the period I covered is without doubt Uniteds most sucessful period but just to keep you happy here is a list of Transfers for both cliubs all the way up to the summer of 2001. As you can see Liverpool spent £10.27 million more than Man Uniited did that year meaning that they were hbigger spenders than United to the stage, United most sucessful period. As I said you really should check you facts intsead of just posting the rubbish you have.

Your condescending tone only makes you look more foolish. The cheek of you to say that I should check my facts. Your list for 2001 transfers omits one player that I can think off the top of my head. Sorry two players, the second signed in the Summer of 2000.

That leads me to conclude that I wont accept any of your previous figures, until you link sources, or list names. Its blatantly obvious Fergie is a big spender, you are the one who is trying to prove hes not.

The Muppet wrote:

You see if it was my intention to skew the figures I would have included these in my inital post and that would have made liverpool the bigger spenders but as we are talking about United success being baught I only included the most sucessful period of the club.

I never said United success was bought. If you (and others) actually read what I said before ranting, you will find I said Uniteds most successful period was built using incredible youth players, and big signings. I dont want to get into an argument whether United "poached" their kids or not, because I dont really think they did, and besides its completely off topic.

Ferguson has had more than his fair share of purchasing power, something which you have denied. Its true, face it. This is more relevant to the years that he has disappointed than suceeded. The 1999 success was incredible because it involved so many youth players. However, in other years where he has spent big, he has failed too often. This for me is a serious negative point when assessing his overall performance. People like Paisley did not have this disproportionate spending power in comparison to their closest rivals, making their achievements at a domestic level more impressive in comparison.

Again at a European level, he did not have the access to the best players in the world, like Ferguson has, yet he won the EC three times in five years.

case n basket

The Muppet wrote:

Fair play to you for admitting that, That is the core point I made in the early stages of this thread that has led us to where we are now.

I don't see the need to be congratulated, i don't have any vested interest in it either way.

I do not agree with the rest of you post especially as I have shown that from 1994 to 2001 Uniteds most sucessful period Liverpool actually spent $15 million more than united did on transfers but as I said fair dues for being honest about the core issue.

Ferguson has managed United for years before and after where his record is much less impressive. He may have done very well for a good few years without spending much money, but he still has two periods where had very little success/some success but massive amounts of spending.

And I don't believe the strength of the EC/CL is the core issue. You've tried to make it that. I agree that the CL is more competitive these days; but winning a weaker competition 3 times and reaching the final another 2(?) times is a much more impressive than one lone appearance resulting in a slightly fortunate win.

PHB

There have been no shortage of players coming through other youth systems, so why has the great united academy dryed up?

Care to give examples?

You miss the point of the United youth system. THey take them in when they have developed up to the age of about 14-17. At that point, they sign them up and develop them into world class players.
Is it tapping up? No.
Is it stealing talent from other places? Yep.
Does the new rule change that? Yep
Has it hurt United? Ask ferige about it, hes quitevocal about it.
Does it resort to bringing in foreign youngsters? Yep.
Name me 3 prominant best known United youngsters.
Rossi Eagles and Pique would be imo best known. Only one english person.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Care to give examples?

You miss the point of the United youth system. THey take them in when they have developed up to the age of about 14-17. At that point, they sign them up and develop them into world class players.
Is it tapping up? No.
Is it stealing talent from other places? Yep.
Does the new rule change that? Yep
Has it hurt United? Ask ferige about it, hes quitevocal about it.
Does it resort to bringing in foreign youngsters? Yep.
Name me 3 prominant best known United youngsters.
Rossi Eagles and Pique would be imo best known. Only one english person.

This is completely off topic. And it actually demonstrates exactly what people are saying about Uniteds youth system.

But if you want to discuss Uniteds youth system open another thread. It will only lead to this one being closed.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Nice to see that you are sticking by what you said earlier Muppet, you know the bit where you said, that's all that I have to say on the matter and I will not be responding.

By your reckoning, if Benitez wins the CL this season he will be the best manager of an england team as he inherited a team that you repeatedly ridiculed, and managed to win a cl in his first season of trying.

Does anybody have anything worthwhile to add to this thread or should I just close it ?

GuanYin

PHB wrote:

Care to give examples?

You miss the point of the United youth system. THey take them in when they have developed up to the age of about 14-17. At that point, they sign them up and develop them into world class players..

They are known as trainee's and its quite different from a youth system. Perhaps you should figure out what youre terms are before you make an entry into the discussion.

Spurs & Blackburn have strong youth academies but Liverpool, Forest and Leeds (although I'm not sure how leeds are ow) are examples of strong youth acadmamies still producing top players regularly.

Otherwise you agreed with most of my points, except for the tapping up. Beckham and Bellion were the two most high profile cases of youth tapping going. There have been others, I just forget the names (they poached one from under another club who were going to sign him at one stage).

The Muppet

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Nice to see that you are sticking by what you said earlier Muppet, you know the bit where you said, that's all that I have to say on the matter and I will not be responding.

I assume users still have the right to reply here. I did say that ,A couple of times in fact but each time Someone directed a post at me.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

By your reckoning, if Benitez wins the CL this season he will be the best manager of an england team as he inherited a team that you repeatedly ridiculed, and managed to win a cl in his first season of trying.

No thats the liverpool mentality not mine. The seem to think that you should only consider success in one competition to base your decision on.

[EDIT]
I do however believe that if Liverpool win it this year it will be their greatest achievement to date.
[/EDIT]

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Does anybody have anything worthwhile to add to this thread or should I just close it ?

You can do what you like with it , wouldn't be the first time a valid Utd based thread was closed for no reason.

The Muppet

case n basket wrote:

I don't see the need to be congratulated, i don't have any vested interest in it either way.

Ferguson has managed United for years before and after where his record is much less impressive. He may have done very well for a good few years without spending much money, but he still has two periods where had very little success/some success but massive amounts of spending.

I was just commenting on you honesty it can be a scarce commodity around here.

case n basket wrote:

And I don't believe the strength of the EC/CL is the core issue. You've tried to make it that.

To clarify it was the core issue to me because of the barracking I got when I said it.

case n basket wrote:

I agree that the CL is more competitive these days; but winning a weaker competition 3 times and reaching the final another 2(?) times is a much more impressive than one lone appearance resulting in a slightly fortunate win.

If thats your opinion fair enough.I don't share it or more importantly the managers that voted in the poll obviously do not either. If you want to lump 3 weaker competitions together and say they are more value than 1 stronger competition work ahead, personally. I don't see any logic in that but you are entitled to hold that opinion.

meditraitor

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Fact? How is it fact? Because of that link you posted? Doesn't make it fact I'm afraid. The only FACT of this thread is that the managers of England voted Fergie the greatest English club side manager of all time. That's fact.

The managers in question are league managers, with the exeption of 4 or 5 they are all lightweights, OK their opinion should be noted, but ask the premiership manages(being the one's who understand success) and see who that throws up..

Look all this bickering about liverpool and utd should be put to bed, both teams are has-beens, simple as that

LFC fan

PHB

Spurs & Blackburn have strong youth academies but Liverpool, Forest and Leeds (although I'm not sure how leeds are ow) are examples of strong youth acadmamies still producing top players regularly.

Seriously, who?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Muppet, if you have a problem with the modding of this forum the report it to the admins otherwise quit your damn sniping about it. I thought that this thread would die it's death once you stopped posting, how stupid of me to believe this ...

I'm definitelly leaving it at that, you can have your reply but I will not be replying to that so don't bother asking me any questions. As you obviously can not see past your club loyalties we'll have to agree to differ.

As regards this being a valid united based thread, this stopped being a valid thread once you and Jiving started your diatribe.

case n basket

The Muppet wrote:

If thats your opinion fair enough.I don't share it or more importantly the managers that voted in the poll obviously do not either. If you want to lump 3 weaker competitions together and say they are more value than 1 stronger competition work ahead, personally. I don't see any logic in that but you are entitled to hold that opinion.

Put it this way: do you honestly think that it is 3 times more difficult to win the CL than the EC? I don't, not even close. When I think of some of the players that were around in the 80's...

Similarily, I'd say winning the league cup 3 times is much more impressive than 1 FA cup win...

dirkey_wynne

meditraitor wrote:

The managers in question are league managers, with the exeption of 4 or 5 they are all lightweights, OK their opinion should be noted, but ask the premiership manages(being the one's who understand success) and see who that throws up..

Look all this bickering about liverpool and utd should be put to bed, both teams are has-beens, simple as that

LFC fan

Perhaps, but you stated that your link proved Fergie isn't the greatest manager of all time. I'm just pointing out that what you showed, is not fact.

The Muppet

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Muppet, if you have a problem with the modding of this forum the report it to the admins otherwise quit your damn sniping about it. I thought that this thread would die it's death once you stopped posting, how stupid of me to believe this ...



As regards this being a valid united based thread, this stopped being a valid thread once you and Jiving started your diatribe.

I didn't say I had any problem with modding, If I had I would as you know. I just stated fact and I didn't start any diatribe or take the thread off topic but I agree that's what happened thanks to a few users. Nothing new there either EH

case n basket wrote:

Put it this way: do you honestly think that it is 3 times more difficult to win the CL than the EC? I don't, not even close. When I think of some of the players that were around in the 80's...

Similarily, I'd say winning the league cup 3 times is much more impressive than 1 FA cup win...

They are four seperate competitions, The CL is harder to win than any individual EC competition. To win 3 EC was an achievement but IMO you can not lump them together and the say they were harder to win than the CL. That's not trying to discredit Liverpool in any way.

meditraitor

English Football's Most Successful Manager.
(as acknowledged by the League Managers Association)

Bob Paisley
OBE MSc (Hons)
1919-1996

Honours.
League Championships.
1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982 & 1983.
League Cup.
1981, 1982 & 1983.
European Cup.
1977, 1978 & 1981.
UEFA Cup.
1976.
European Super Cup.
1978.
Charity Shield.
1977, 1978, 1980, 1981 & 1983.
Manager Of The Year.
1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982 & 1983.
A Total of Nineteen Trophies in the short space of Nine Seasons including three
European Cups, no other manager of an English club having won more than two
European Cups, means that this is a record that is unsurpassed and which is
unlikely to ever be surpassed.

Debate over, closed her down mod

TheMonster

Most Successful does not equal Greatest - Greatest will take into account all circumstances - some of the best managers have won very little.

meditraitor

TheMonster wrote:

Most Successful does not equal Greatest - Greatest will take into account all circumstances - some of the best managers have won very little.

:rolleyes: you will have to explain this to me brother, are we getting into semantics here........ because the philosophy forum is good..

Ardent

TheMonster wrote:

Most Successful does not equal Greatest - Greatest will take into account all circumstances - some of the best managers have won very little.

Very eloquent. Did you just make that up?

TheMonster

Would have thought it was obvious :rolleyes:

Who is better?
Someone that takes a team from the jaws on bankruptcy in lower leagues to the premiership (finishing 2nd each season) and then winning the permiership)

Someone who wins 2 premerierships having spent 200M on world class players.

I would argue the first but by your logic(2 vs 1 premiership titles) you think the 2nd.

Emmo

Did we all not agree to disagree 2 weeks ago?

Christ on a bike its all gone a little downhill hasnt it.

Well done Fergie your number 1 in your peers!

I was talking to a journalist about this before the Liverpool Juve game in the Sailsbury and he raised an interesting point.

They generally cant give these prestigous awards to corpses. He came accross as a real cycnic though so I would say he was just being paranoid.

Can we agree that Fergie won the competition that was laid out? No matter how he did it he is number 1.

I dont agree with it but I will accept it.

Same way the best team in England is Liverpool, you dont have to agree with it but you have to accept it.

Emmo

excuse my spelling!

Jimboo_Jones

PHB wrote:

Seriously, who?

Well we (Forest) did have a very sucessfull youth team, of which we have had to sell to clear the debts David Platt ran up of that team we did have.

Jenas (Full English Int)
Reid (Full Irish Int)
Prutton (ex eng u21 cap)
Dawson (ex eng u21 cap)
Williams (Full Scottish Int) yeah I know its only scotland

The above generated us 12 million pounds, which isnt bad for 5 kids who had never played top flight football.

The Muppet

Emmo wrote:

Did we all not agree to disagree 2 weeks ago?

Christ on a bike its all gone a little downhill hasnt it.

Well done Fergie your number 1 in your peers!

I was talking to a journalist about this before the Liverpool Juve game in the Sailsbury and he raised an interesting point.

They generally cant give these prestigous awards to corpses. He came accross as a real cycnic though so I would say he was just being paranoid.

Can we agree that Fergie won the competition that was laid out? No matter how he did it he is number 1.

I dont agree with it but I will accept it.

Same way the best team in England is Liverpool, you dont have to agree with it but you have to accept it.

Emmo

excuse my spelling!

EUREKA, White smoke and in only two weeks too. except for the bit in bold but scouse wit is legendary so I'll let that one pass.

Emmo

thats not really agreeing to disagree is it?

Still it does convey a genuine wish to put this puppy to sleep.

Emmo

The Muppet

Emmo wrote:

thats not really agreeing to disagree is it?

Still it does convey a genuine wish to put this puppy to sleep.

Emmo

If its of any consolation to you I do agree that Liverpool were the best team in England the years they won their league titles just like Arsenal were last year and Chelsea will be this year. Anything outside that I'll have to agree to disagree with you.

Emmo

score draw, share of the points and move on.

NEXT!

Emmo

The Muppet

Emmo wrote:

NEXT!

Emmo

Give me time ,I,ll have to go searching for that one.

PHB

Jimboo_Jones while those are good players, they aren't world beaters, although Jenas might be.
You could comapre those with say Fletcher, Eagles, Richardson, Blakes

My point is there isn't exactly a wealth of talent coming through

The Muppet

PHB wrote:

Jimboo_Jones while those are good players, they aren't world beaters, although Jenas might be.
You could comapre those with say Fletcher, Eagles, Richardson, Blakes

My point is there isn't exactly a wealth of talent coming through

The FA messed up the progression of youth players by changing the rules to prevent youngsters joining clubs more than a hours travel from their home. That limits the clubs from signing who they want . Its a very short sighted approach which has led to the influx of imports into the Premiership and forced the top clubs into a rethink on their youth policies.

Ping Chow Chi

PHB wrote:

Jimboo_Jones while those are good players, they aren't world beaters, although Jenas might be.
You could comapre those with say Fletcher, Eagles, Richardson, Blakes

My point is there isn't exactly a wealth of talent coming through

Well Dawson hasn't even kicked a ball in yet so I think you judge him a bit to quickly, remember that he was called up to train with the full England squad after only having a dozen or so first team games for Forest. He was watched by a host of Prem clubs (inc ManU) until he caught gladular fevour which kept him out of the team for most of the last season.

The point is that they are still very young, and besides Prutton and Jenas, have not played much, if at all in the top flight. Maybe you expect clubs to produce 6 world class players every season, but it doesnt happen like that in the real world ;p ... well not unless you poach other the cream of other teams youth setups.

Im also suprised to hear you sound un-impressed with young Reid, after a couple of MOTM's playing for Ireland