Customs called round last night

Dades

lomb wrote:

thing is unkel, its irrelevent that u paid 1343. if u dint pay 1343 and instead paid 300 ur car would have cost u twice what u paid for it possibly and ur depreciation would be double. so what are u complaining about?

What are trying to say??

It's one thing dodging tax and getting away with it - it's another thing complaining about it when you get caught.

You can't expect sympathy in that situation from others who've paid all along.

Boggle

No, it hasn't. If you want it changed, vote in a different bunch of cowboys.

Plenty of people have plenty of money to throw away on new cars that will be worth a fraction of their value in a couple of years. Paying thousands in VRT isn't putting them off a bit. The Government would have to be mad to abolish it, and if they did, other taxes would have to rise substantially.

It might not bother other people (as you contend) - but it certainly prices me out of getting a new car at the minute... The tax is a joke, specifically aimed at discounting the free market principles intended by the EU. The govt dont want to remove it as it is a nice cash cow an dto be honest I resent being treated as a cash cow. As such, if there was a way around paying it then I'd take it and if the original poster is doing that then fair play to him... He can use his convictions as a grounds for defence if he has the courage to do so in court (if he wins he could save us all money)- if not just pay the fine and move on (worth a try)...

Amazing how the holier than thou brigade love to jump on people in this forum.

lomb

Boggle wrote:

Amazing how the holier than thou brigade love to jump on people in this forum.

yep there was one guy here saying it was dangerous to do 54 in a 50 ,and yet in another post he reakoned the normal s600 6litre v12 mercedes was to slow and instead wanted a 5.5 bi turbo version LOL.

Anyway as someone who has gone to the uk and back regularly vrt is nonsense. if this is the freemarket then capital, labour, and enterprise should travel unhindered between economies. yet if i was to drive my uk car which i paid the taxes on in this country on an irish license i would be done, ffs.

EDIT: i dont disagree with different road taxes as such, or differing petrol duties as its horses for courses here. ie unkel was objecting to paying 1400 on a 3.5 litre car. what he doesnt realise is that car is far cheaper because of the mental effect on people in this country that they dont want to pay it so it depresses the used values which is rather good if u ask me. also if a 735i was driven in the uk on uk petrol prises that are 25% higher than here then one would pay an extra 700-800 euro in fuel duty there, so its irrelevent imo that road tax on high capacity engines here is dear.

i disagree strongly with vrt as the cops seem to think they have a god given right to accost people driving a car from a different eu country here when its the free market, so economies in theory should compete to allow people to reg cars wherever they want. just like ships are registered in the bahamas because of low/no taxation on boats.

528i

Take that S600 for instance @ €204,000 new, why shouldn't mr.law abiding citizen report his next door neighbour for illegally acquiring the same car (on northern plates) for less than half the price. It's tantamount to fraud and not only should these cars be impounded, but the criminals prosecuted under the illegal smuggling act 1962 with fixed jail terms as a deterrent towards others intending to flout the law and screw 'the system' and every decent taxpayer with it.

Capt'n Midnight

Ratchet wrote:

3500 insurance = maybe 1000 euro fine.

defo belive that any fine that is less than the amount you save is a complete waste of time. It should be several multiples of the premium at least !

Boggle

Take that S600 for instance @ €204,000 new, why shouldn't mr.law abiding citizen report his next door neighbour for illegally acquiring the same car (on northern plates) for less than half the price. It's tantamount to fraud and not only should these cars be impounded, but the criminals prosecuted under the illegal smuggling act 1962 with fixed jail terms as a deterrent towards others intending to flout the law and screw 'the system' and every decent taxpayer with it.

Why would you begrudge your neighbour a good deal? Sounds like pettyness to me...
As far as mr neighbour was concerned, the car may have been bought insidee the free market and perhaps he feels that it is contrary to these ideals to have to pay an exorbitant "Registration" tax.

There is no way around the fact that this was a made up tax designed to stifle competition from abroad.

lomb

Boggle wrote:

Why would you begrudge your neighbour a good deal? Sounds like pettyness to me...
.

it is pettyness. no one wants their neighbour to get ahead of them. its all bull**** anyway as this is an unfair world. as i say restriction of free movements of capital and that includes cars within the eu is contrary to guiding principles. its as simple as that.
u cant have it both ways and want europe and the euro and then say fcuk u, u cant drive ur uk car in this country. it wasnt long ago that ireland was the uk lol.

themole

vrt does see like rip off when compared to over the boarder.

but, as mentioned before, if it was abolished the money would have to come from somewhere else. most likely in higher fuel price and road tax. if fuel prices were increased people would just drive across the border and buy their petrol there, so vrt is here to stay, until a better solution is found.

the reason for lower post tax car prices in the north is due to the higher population density of the UK. the more dense areas of the UK are effectively subsedising the rest of the UK, northern ireland included. thats what happens when you are part of a large fairly densely populated country.

lomb

themole wrote:

but, as mentioned before, if it was abolished the money would have to come from somewhere else. most likely in higher fuel price and road tax. if fuel prices were increased people would just drive across the border and buy their petrol

well thats no problem because fuel is 25% dearer in the uk, so i say up the cost of petrol and get rid of the vrt.

528i

Lets put it another way, whats the government's tax take on say a typical new build apartment worth approx €204,000 (rough area of north dublin) when everything materials, labour, capital gains etc. is taken into account, I'd guess about the same as vrt. So would it be 'pettiness' on behalf of an occupier if another purchaser were to evade by means of fraud or otherwise his obligations with regard to tax on the property ?

If you've got a problem with the principle of VRT (or PRSI, VAT etc.), then take it up with the EU Commissioner \ European Court of Justice and stop voting in the same muppets into government every election, until then its a tax, you must pay it - end of story.

Ps. fuel prices are MUCH lower here (20%?) than in the Uk so there alot of scope for additional taxes there... add that to VRT and you're looking at maybe €2billion per annum for some much needed infrastructure and road improvements etc.

Boggle

but, as mentioned before, if it was abolished the money would have to come from somewhere else. most likely in higher fuel price and road tax.

So be it. At least then everyone would pay their fair share and anyone who wants to buy a new car wouldn't be unfairly brudened. There is already a tax on cars you know....

lomb

528i wrote:

Lets put it another way, whats the government's tax take on say a typical new build apartment worth approx €204,000 (rough area of north dublin) when everything materials, labour, capital gains etc. is taken into account, I'd guess about the same as vrt. So would it be 'pettiness' on behalf of an occupier if another purchaser were to evade by means of fraud or otherwise his obligations with regard to tax on the property ?

.

Its not fraud if u are driving an eu car in europe. thats the bottom line. governments should compete for where cars are registered.
and it is petty to begrudge your neighbour, this is an unfair world. so if i pull up tomorrow in a uk ferrari and u begrudge me i couldnt give a monkeys about that. one of these days ireland will have to abolish vrt and probably jack up fuel costs to that of the rest of europe.
what the government is doing is to let busines beartificially be more competitive than europe and the uk by lowering energy costs below that of its competitors and compensating this loss by cranking vrt oo new private cars.

528i

If you're living and working in the republic while driving a northern (or any EU) registered car, then its illegal. You must conform to all Irish state tax regulations and requirements, not ones that can be pulled at random from other EU countries when it suits. Go live and work in the other EU country if you must avoid VRT altogether, and become penalised in many other ways so you can never afford this theoretical ferrari in the first place, problem solved

themole

ok.

some figure.
from this link: http://www.finfacts.com/biz10/irelandtaxproportionretailprice.htm
2003 prices, but not much has changed.

it would appear that the revenue from vrt is about the same as from petrol. the tax for petrol is 62% of selling price.

so, if petrol is say €1, of which 62cent is tax, to double tax revenue would require price of petrol to be €1 + 62, = €1.62/litre.

a substantial increase.

a lot more than the current northern ireland price, of €1.17 : http://www.aaireland.ie/petrolprices/


VRT debate info:
http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1061&CatID=18&StartDate=01+January+2002&m=


if my sources and false please tell me.

impr0v

lomb wrote:

Its not fraud if u are driving an eu car in europe. thats the bottom line.

It's not the bottom line, it's what you think the bottom line should be. And contrary to one of your other posts it's not pettiness, or begrudgery which makes some of us object to those evading tax by driving UK reg cars. If you knew your neighbour was evading all his income tax while you paid yours at 42% would you still say fair play to him, or roll out some tired useless arguments against income tax? He's not pulling a fast one on the government, he's pulling a fast one on you.

I dislike VRT, but I dislike more that I pay it while others don't. Unfortunately you don't get to pick and choose the taxes you want to pay, and ignore those ones you disagree with. If you're a citizen of this country the law says you pay your taxes along with every other citizen. Either we all pay VRT or we all get away with it.

lomb

impr0v wrote:

. Either we all pay VRT or we all get away with it.

u see thats where most people fall down in this world. they actually think the world is fair which it is not. i shall give u several examples of this.

lawyers in the usa who act as public defenders to defend poor people get 20 dollars an hour even if they are defending a person who could get the death sentence.
On the other hand OJs lawyers were get about 1000+dollars an hour for the same work. there are numerous more examples of this 'unfairness.' a dentist in the UK who carries on the NHS would make 1/4 of the hourly rate of a 'private' dentist for the same work and i can assure u the private dentist is ripping no one off. its an unfair world accept it and move on.

Farls

Didn't mean to start a war here! :eek:

Anyway i still think its ridiculous to think your paying my tax just cuz i drive a northern car. By the way i pay my roadtax etc. in the north where i do most of my driving.

I would like to see VRT abolished but then a hike in petrol costs? I know the tax has to come from somewhere but i'm sure theres lots of different areas that it could come from.

I just read the other day that Bertie Ahern's daughter has never paid a penny in tax in her life because she's a writer, first i ever heard off that tax dodge :rolleyes:

Improv if your so annoyed at paying that amount of tax then buy a smaller car, i'll forward you on whatever fraction of a cent that you think i owe you though

Farlz

green-blood

so let me get this right, you tried to evade the system, you knew you were doing it and you got caught.... tough titty.

we've a chap in the job, american born, hmm, has monaghan roots, family own a farm, sinn fein, hmmm activist, has his 94 golf diesel on northern plates for 3 years now, and wont pay for it to be registered, but dont get him started on politics.... interesting he doesn't mind being a Brit when it suits him...pathetic

only thing worse than culchies is nordie culchies :-)

Farls

green-blood wrote:

so let me get this right, you tried to evade the system, you knew you were doing it and you got caught.... tough titty.

we've a chap in the job, american born, hmm, has monaghan roots, family own a farm, sinn fein, hmmm activist, has his 94 golf diesel on northern plates for 3 years now, and wont pay for it to be registered, but dont get him started on politics.... interesting he doesn't mind being a Brit when it suits him...pathetic

only thing worse than culchies is nordie culchies :-)

I put this thread up to warn other people, not to take a slagging. If you have nothing good to add then get back up on your high horse and **** off

Farlz

themole

Farls wrote:

I put this thread up to warn other people, not to take a slagging. If you have nothing good to add then get back up on your high horse and **** off

Farlz

you mean to warn others who are evading tax and commiting fraud?

JabbaTheHut

Ho man,and there was I going to buy a cossie from the uk. Only 3 grand to clear it.What value for money.I can't blame you for not wanting to pay VRT Farls.There are plenty "holier than thou's" out there,isn't there?

Get real.Things aren't fair,and you can't blame anyone for wanting to bend the rules in their favour.And this bull***t about paying everyone elses taxes..............Pllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.Give me a break

only thing worse than culchies is nordie culchies

Wow.What a helpful statement

Farls

All the "hollier than thou's" are crawling out of the woodwork here alright.

Farlz

mike65

Cool it gents...please.

Mike.

528i

Are those genuine premiership tee-shirts now or the cheap imitation rip-offs where the government gets no money, Carlsberg don't do your typical bunch of tax evading fraudsters, but if they did

sceptre

Farls wrote:

I just read the other day that Bertie Ahern's daughter has never paid a penny in tax in her life because she's a writer, first i ever heard off that tax dodge :rolleyes:

Not that it's relevant in any way to the thread you started but she, like all other artists and writers covered by the relevant legislation, doesn't pay tax on her direct income from writing but pays tax on anything else. If she's had a job doing anything else or declares any income she may receive from appearing on chat shows to talk about her book she pays tax on that. Like anyone else who writes a book or paints a purty picture.

themole

JabbaTheHut wrote:

Ho man,and there was I going to buy a cossie from the uk. Only 3 grand to clear it.What value for money.I can't blame you for not wanting to pay VRT Farls.There are plenty "holier than thou's" out there,isn't there?

Get real.Things aren't fair,and you can't blame anyone for wanting to bend the rules in their favour.And this bull***t about paying everyone elses taxes..............Pllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.Give me a break



Wow.What a helpful statement

i don't blame anyone for wanting to evade tax. i blame them for doing it.

also it is a fair point to say that others who pay vrt are paying extra when some poeple don't. if everyone paid then it would be less for everyone.

JabbaTheHut

Or the horse breedeing industry! Depends what you're up to I suppose

Farls

themole wrote:

i don't blame anyone for wanting to evade tax. i blame them for doing it.

also it is a fair point to say that others who pay vrt are paying extra when some poeple don't. if everyone paid then it would be less for everyone.

Not really when VRT is a set percentage of the open market selling price of the vehicle depending on engine size etc...

Farlz

C Fodder

I know of a story going back to the beginning of customs chasing people over VRT. A neighbor of mine was working / living in UK but had just bought a house for doing up here. He was working a kind of flexitime where he spent every second week on so here and then took a few weeks leave so it seemed he was living here. Customs pulled him over one day and informed him that he was driving an illegal car no VRT etc and wouldn't listen or believe him that he was UK resident. They confiscated the car and left him to hitch home. That evening he was on to his UK solicitor and the brown smelly stuff began to fly. According to him he got his car delivered back to him two days later a written apology and a "decent" amount of compo. Also the crackdown that had been happening in the area at that time ceased abruptly.
Their procedures have probably changed since then but they sometimes have to back down.

themole

Farls wrote:

Not really when VRT is a set percentage of the open market selling price of the vehicle depending on engine size etc...

Farlz

the percentages paid would be less.