Customs called round last night

seamus

Ernie Ball wrote:

VRT also has an impact on the used market: its presence in the new market sets the benchmarks that are used to determine used prices. If VRT were abolished tomorrow, prices in the used market would also collapse.

This much is true. The second hand market though is nothing compared to what it used to be. A removal of VRT would put many, if not all second-hand sales businesses out of commission, but on the whole, it would be a relatively quick and painful transition. The market would adjust itself in a matter of weeks.

As annoyed as I am by VRT, as a public policy matter it would be a disaster if it were abolished. The roads are already choked with cars. If cars suddenly dropped in price by 40%, they'd be more affordable but--in Dublin at least--you wouldn't be able to drive or park anywhere most hours of the day.

IMO, the biggest barrier for those looking to drive is insurance, not the vehicle. You can pick up any old cart with an NCT for a couple of hundred euro, but the insurance will still be in the thousands.

I'd say we'd only see an increase in the volume of new and bigger cars on the road, I don't think we'd see any appreciable jump in the volume of traffic overall.

Seth Brundle

The 2 unfair things about VRT are (IMO):-
1. the revenue decide the OMSP and you need to appeal before they will consider what well may be a realistic value.
2. a car on sale for eg €100k contains 21% VAT (€21K) on the VRT & car price (VRT rates here would be 30% of the car price. Therefore the pre VAT price is €79k and the pre VAT price is €55,300 (I believe). However, if I were to import the car (brand new) in from the UK they would judge the OMSP to be roughly €100k and I would need to pay 30% of that meaning I pay €130k for the car. In other words their OMSP includes the fact that cars are artificially high due to VRT.

alias no.9

This old chestnut again. If you don't want to pay VRT and you decide to cook up an elaborate scam to avoid it, go ahead. However, you already know the potential risks. If you get caught, tough titty. You went into it with your eyes wide open, so be prepared to take any consequences on the chin, don't come complaining about those horrible gardai and customs officers who're doing nothing more than their job.

CJhaughey

kbannon wrote:

The 2 unfair things about VRT are (IMO):-
1. the revenue decide the OMSP and you need to appeal before they will consider what well may be a realistic value.
2. a car on sale for eg €100k contains 21% VAT (€21K) on the VRT & car price (VRT rates here would be 30% of the car price. Therefore the pre VAT price is €79k and the pre VAT price is €55,300 (I believe). However, if I were to import the car (brand new) in from the UK they would judge the OMSP to be roughly €100k and I would need to pay 30% of that meaning I pay €130k for the car. In other words their OMSP includes the fact that cars are artificially high due to VRT.

In addition the OMSP is based on a vehicle including Vat.
so you pay a tax based on a tax.
I have cleared a few vehicles but they were older vehicles so the total VRT take was minimal.*happy*
Sorry I read your post again I said the same thing! DOH!!

Boggle

The VRT was introduced to prevent people from using the open market to buy cars in a cheaper market across the border.

What part of this do some of you people NOT understand? Is their any debate on the reasons for this? Is there any coincidence that the VRT came in roughly the same time as the open market? If this would increase your tax then pity but the fact is that it is contrary to the open market and as such is only a successful legal case away from being scrapped...

from http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1169

2 Vehicle Registration Tax has applied with effect from 1 January 1993 and replaced the previous Motor Vehicle Excise Duty which was abolished under the EU Single Market rules. VRT is payable on first registration of the vehicle in the State and applies to both new and second hand cars. In the case of new models, it is paid at dealer level and the customer is usually not aware of the large tax take included in the purchase price, particularly if there is a trade-in involved. On personal imports - generally of used vehicles - the tax take is more obvious as the VRT is paid by the individual, on registration, immediately the car is brought into the State. The tax is applied after VAT, whereas the previous motor vehicle excise duty formed part of the VAT base.

Furp

I was thinking, maybe there is a way to make VRT more visible to the general public, could there be something under the pricing laws.

Maybe it would be possible to get the price displayed for cars as the selling price plus vat just like any item in a supermarket. And the then the VRT displayed as the Registration Charge to actually put the vehicle on the road.

This would make the VRT rip-off very apparent very quickly to the public and I’m sure it could become a political agenda very quickly once people realised just how much VRT is being paid on a new car purchase.

Ratchet

CJhaughey wrote:

............
Ratchet you obviously have some issues with other nationalities? care to elaborate?

have issues with loop holes in the system not nationalities and if can't see it that your problem. not going to elaborate , so go somewhere else to start this discussion as this thread topic is different.

Corben Dallas

As with all VRT threads threes two types of ppl here

The ->I’m Alright jack/ppl who cant see further than the end of their own nose’ ppl
Bought a new car don’t want the VRT abolished cause the second-hand value will drop.
The used car market will reajust, but the Irish car buying public cant wait around for VRT to dropped to fit in with your personal 4 yr car replacement timeline mate.
It needs to be dropped now.

The ->’Wont someone think of the Revenue returns!’ ppl :rolls eyes: Has to come from somewhere and has to be replaced WRONG! Its like arguing that we needed to maintain the very high overall tax rate from 15yrs ago. The problem is that the Irish Govn. is placing an ILLEGAL EU IMPORT TAX on all new vehicles coming from within the EU!!!!!! More than that, the Irish Govn have said that they use the Irish motorist as a cash register to take an obscene amount of revenue (compared to any other EU country) to use it for non roads/transport /infrastructure spending.

It should go and not be replaced with ‘another name tax’ as with the UK Vehicle Registration Tax should cost no more than a few hundred euros to cover administration costs of putting your car on the books, manufacture the 2 plates, issue cert etc.

What is VRT ->fee to register your licence plate of an Irish owned car?
€500 one off fee max. THAT’S ALL IT SHOULD BE! It has been Irish Govn policy to balloon this over the years from and few €100’s (Registration in the UK still costs this) to the region of a €6000+ cut from an average family car.

This is a rip off Ireland tax, something we should NOT be paying as a EU member state, VRT is effectively an import tax on new cars and against the anti competition EU laws that EU citizens should be able to buy any product (new cars included) or service from any EU country without own country trading tax restrictions.

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For those who really want a replacement ‘tax by another name’ or ‘we have to protect/replace or revenue take’ I propose a better tax beneficial to the country. A 2nd non-residential property tax of lets say € 10,000 for every other property that you are not in residence.
Property prices in Ireland still see no sign of moderating (they’re levelling/plateauing at best) so easy way to accommodate this is too take a chunk of tax out of ppl who can easily afford it. Investment properties bought by ppl (would already own their own home) are purely bought to generate a rental income that eventually pays for the property.
If the govn brought this in then we would finally see the moderation of new house prices that the analysts have been telling us that ‘the house market will regulate itself’ (cost wise) over time and a huge amount of families would finally be able to afford their own home.

This would of course be exempt for first time buyers and Holiday homes within designated areas below a certain Sq footage. If the holiday home was bought new and would be commercially rented for most/part of the year then the €10000 would apply.

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Ref the Donegal guy if u have a Northern Ireland Property and UK licence and that entitles you to pay UK reg and road tax only, then Irish Customs can feck the hell off! I would consider this one of the benefits of living working near the border + u can still smoke in NI pubs.

Oh I forgot Ireland is the country where the public have a sheep like ability to never complain about anything and we used to live in the ‘Free State’ now we live in the ‘Nanny State’ L

Gatster

I am on the verge of buying in the North/UK mainland, but do intend to stump up for VRT at some point soon. My insurance company tell me I can drive a NI/UK reg car on my Irish policy for 8 weeks while I get it changed over.

All very fair, i presume the value of whatever I buy may drop slightly in that period and if it doesn't i may just register it at my UK address for a short while to decrease the amount of VRT I'll have to stump up.

My question is what happens if get stopped during the 8 weeks, where do I/the cops stand?

CJhaughey

Gatster wrote:

I am on the verge of buying in the North/UK mainland, but do intend to stump up for VRT at some point soon. My insurance company tell me I can drive a NI/UK reg car on my Irish policy for 8 weeks while I get it changed over.

All very fair, i presume the value of whatever I buy may drop slightly in that period and if it doesn't i may just register it at my UK address for a short while to decrease the amount of VRT I'll have to stump up.

My question is what happens if get stopped during the 8 weeks, where do I/the cops stand?

This is what Oasis has to say about it:

If you bring a vehicle into Ireland from abroad, you must first of all be able to show proof of ownership of the vehicle. For example, a vehicle registration document, evidence of car insurance, etc. You must also have a Certificate of Permanent Export (or a vehicle registration document as we mention above). It is important to check that the document or certificate is the correct one for your car before bringing it to Ireland.

You must register your car and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival into Ireland. You must bring it to a Revenue Vehicle Registration Office (VRO) not later than the next working day following its arrival in Ireland. You should complete a Declaration for Registration (Form VRT 4) and present it with the vehicle registration document or Certificate of Permanent Export.