Politics Board Suggestion & Complaint

Mercury_Tilt

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uberwolf

I was expecting a rant here actually

some merit in what you've to say.

It is hard to know when a new thread is needed sometimes. It depends on the resolution you use to view a topic.

McCartney story as a case in point. Should it have been merged into a general Northern Ireland thread? Should the seperate developments in the story each have had their own threads?

Very often it would seem at first glance that a new development should just be tacked onto the end of an existing thread. The problem is though that the original thread has already grown it's own legs and a post off topic from what is now being discussed simply gets lost. Posting as a new thread makes sure it gets the attention it merits and very often means the earlier thread drops from the front page as the discussion takes a new direction - rightly so as the new development means the ground has changed.

Maybe a premoderated thread 'start' would be useful?

I really couldn't deal with completely premoderating the forum - it's simply not possible to read every post on the forum as it is. Premoderating would also ruin discussion. But getting a mod to view a new thread before it is posted would stop what you perceive as a problem.

Also often by the time a mod gets to see a new thread it has grown it grown legs and can no longer be merged with an existing thread.

But maybe it is just you.

Mercury_Tilt

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Mercury_Tilt

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uberwolf

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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I didn't ban you, so I'm not unbanning you early.

As for that thread in particular - there's no thread in the first two pages that are appropriate for it - given the nature of the converstations that it would have been wedged into. IMO.

And dredging up an older thread puts users off looking at the thread. Who wants to read through 4 pages of an old thread from a fortnight ago to look at the latest development?

Mercury_Tilt

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ecksor

Judgements on when a post merits a new thread are a factor in lots of forums. Usually though it's a result of someone posting before reading as opposed to perhaps trying to emphasise something or feeling that the original thread has gone off-topic as appears to be what's happening here. It would seem that Politics is more prone to people complaining when it happens though since diverse interpretations by both mods and users can lead to confusion about what is acceptable and what isn't (not sure if confusion is the right word here since we don't seem to have decided what is acceptable and what isn't).

Sangre

Perhaps a trial period for a N. Ire sub forum would alleviate some of the stress? (Probably been suggested many times before) Who knows it might just work out. Its such a contentious, volatile issue which is continuously on-going that it might merit a separate sub-forum. Although, threads/topic which overlap onto other political topics might be given some lee-way about which forum they are posted.
Although this will probably by conceived as some sort of 'brushing the problem under the table' tactic and could just lead to more hassle but it might be worth a shot. Seperate moderators for each forum could also lessen the reading load somewhat.

Sangre

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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Haven't read the post myself but surely the whole point of boards.ie is to post your own propaganda and personal opinions?

Mercury_Tilt

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A Dub in Glasgo

Every new twist and turn, every new opinion on the McCartney murder and the NI bank job seems to have it own thread started up (usually by the usual suspects). This is the first disussion forum i have used which appears to encourage this. Most others I use close the duplicate one and inform the thread starter that they should post in the existing thread.

There is merit in keeping topics to the one thread in my opinion.

Slutmonkey57b

well i'd agree with that to an extent if there was a reliable way of ensuring people stayed on-topic, but as it is that simply isn't happening. Example is the SDLP "lying" thread which has now degenerated into a discussion about taxi drivers and blokes turning up to police stations (which is a totally unrelated topic).

I don't see how you could have a "McCartney" thread and channel all the related discussions into that one thread - it'd turn into a complete mess as groups involved in separate discussions post across one another. Nightmare.

WhiteWashMan

if we just hand back ireland and northern ireland to england and apologise for making a mess of things, everything will be all right again.

oscarBravo

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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That's funny. That's really funny.

You know why it's funny? Because MT[1] is a stated republican - in the true sense of the word.

[1] I don't mean 'Mercury_Tilt', I actually mean 'MT'.

bonkey

Sangre wrote:

Perhaps a trial period for a N. Ire sub forum would alleviate some of the stress? (Probably been suggested many times before) Who knows it might just work out.

Funnily enough, just around the time of the US elections, I believe TomF (although it may have been someone else) made a comment / started a thread here or in Politics, bemoaning the lack of Irish issues being discussed, and suggested that perhaps the US politics could be split off to promote Irish discussion.

In my experience, the Poilitics forum tends to move in cycles, often mirroring whatever event is currently garnering the most column-inches and air-time. Right now, its almost entirely all about the North. In a fortnight...who knows...we could be back to BushBash2005, a forthcoming Referendum, or onto something completely different. Who knows...maybe even (gasp!!) something new!

For that reason, I'm not sure of the lasting benefit of setting up any topic-specific sub-fora. The only possible split I think could have merit would be to split to Irish / International, but even then, I think what we'd end up seeing is that only one or another would be very busy at any given time.

As for the whole thread-starting "problem", I see it slightly differently. Threads don't stay on the first page for long unless people are posting to them. Now, I'm fairly sure the mods would close a thread that was being kept alive by a one-sided set of back-slapping posts, as there would be no real discussion...so the only threads that remain open are ones where both sides are pitching in. So surely the best thing to do with these threads is to not get involved and encourage anyone else who is expressing similar discontent to do the same. Walk away - they can't talk long to empty air.

I find it interesting that more than one person has made use of the phrase "denying them the oxygen of publicity" concerning, I believe, SF, but that so few seem willing to put that very technique into practice.

Another thing to consider is that if people only get involved in the threads you think are more about genuine discussion and less about one side or the other getting in a bit of flag-waving, then surely over time the presence or absence of whatever number of people adopt this stance becomes almost an implicit "quality indicator"?

Now that I no longer feel compelled to read all posts (or as close to as possible) as a mod, I am finding it surprisingly easy to just glance over a varying number of threads and just decide that its not something I'm interested in participating in...and I'm slowly learning that I can leave discussions as easily as I enter them just be deciding to stop once I've made my point...whether or not the poster I ostensibly make it to agrees with me or not.

Its great for the old stress-reduction

jc

ecksor

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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I think he's trying to emphasise something. Why he's trying to do that is a matter for the reader to decide

Surely the point of politics is to win others over to your point of view. Not to entrench them in theirs.

I think that's what it should be for, but it isn't clear what some others think of it. For example: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1792613#post1792613

gandalf

Ah the ideal world where everyone will conform to your idea of discussion and everything will be interesting for you. Where we the mods wouldn't have to deal with immature types setting up duplicate accounts :rolleyes: to have "a bit of fun".

Sorry welcome to the real world. You may not like the way things are run but that is the most practical way for us to let things develop at the moment. No one is standing over you and forcing you to read any thread on politics or on boards. As for the pre-moderating the board that is a definate non runner given the traffic on that board.

Do we split politics, no I think would be a step backwards, why? Well as bonkey already stated things move in cycles on Politics so depending on what is flavour of the day that dominates the board. Last time someone suggested splitting the forum it was for US threads because we had the Iraq war and upcoming US election dominating things there.

I also think the general users of the board need to grow up. All I have heard recently is the mods need to do this, the admins need to do that. I personally think alot of people using the board need to take a more mature attitude and take a deep breath before they post. Point of proof is your little rant Merc that got you banned from the politics forum in the first place. As you say you post very little on the board (I don't know why as you seem to be more qualified to do so that most of the posters there including me), I have never seen you complain once about a post to me or the other mods, yet you take a cheap shot at one of the regular posters there in a thread. Couple people doing things like that and the regular stream of people setting up duplicate accounts to get around bans things are a complete pain in the ar$e in there at the moment. At this rate we will be handing Nappies out to all the posters on Politics.

Yes there are some users who do not seem to have the ability to discuss topics at a level that most of us would like, but after extensive discussions that myself & bonkey have had with them in the past we came to the conclusion that eventhou they cannot post in the manner we would like them to they may be incapable of doing so and to deny them the right to post at all would be harse. If you spend time on the forum you would realise who they are and ignore them.

Mercury_Tilt

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The Muppet

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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And tolerance , we don't all have degrees in politics and we may not be as eloquent as others but that does not mean we don't have anything to bring to the discussion. You're unprovoked attack would have earned a ban on most fora here and rightly so.

Mercury_Tilt

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gandalf

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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Forgive me if I feel that your motives are influenced by the fact you have been banned.

Merely to highlight what appears to be an issue. You only have to read those threads to see the remarks about the threads.
This thread is no different to the "report post" etc option. It is just that this option gives more voice to... and views on... the subject.

And as I stated before the politics mods (and I am sure the admins) welcome people using this forum to air their concerns. It just strikes me as strange that you have taken an interest in the running of the forum recently yet you have never aired these grievances through the normal channels before your banning and subsequent post here.

It should not be seen as a personal insult to mods or modding.

As I said to someone else the other day I never take anything said on the internet personally, if I did at this stage I would be a nervous wreak. The only thing that does annoy me are people opening up duplicate accounts and acting the smart a$$ without consideration for others who use that forum.

The politics board and all boards are about input and readership...readership and input.

Let me rephrase that for you. The Politics board as all forums on Boards.ie is only as good as the users want it to be. The mods are there to facilitate civilised discussion if possible.

The Muppet

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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Did you ever hear the cliche One mans Rubbish is another mans treasure. I thought his posts were interesting and informative and I was surprised by your attack on him. It's not really your style you are normally a lot more subtle than that. Why the second account stuff?

Mercury_Tilt

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A Dub in Glasgo

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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That is a classic... pity I was not around on this board to see it

Mercury_Tilt

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bonkey

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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Nah.

Didn'tchya know? I was always the softie, no matter how much I spouted on.

Gandalf could never quite find the pair of boots for me

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Shur, whyddya think I'm no longer a mod
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jc

Stabshauptmann

How serious a problem is doublicate accounts? While I dont like what I'm about to suggest, perhaps some sort of access system in line with soccor is neccessary.

Im not in favour of censorship, least of all in the politics forum. Im not suggesting a system to weed out idiots or muppets, let people hold idiotic views (as you see them), but perhaps a time delay system.

E.g
User has been registerered 2 months(at least), has 50 posts(at least) and so can access politics forum 2 weeks after request, no sponsorship needed. The idea behind those requirments is so access isnt instant and its probably quicker & easier to rid out a ban rather than try circumvent it.
If user doesnt post for a period of two weeks they looses the ability to post and must make a fresh request: this is to help stop ppl registering a spare account and then leaving it idle till its needed.

unkel

bonkey wrote:

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Shur, whyddya think I'm no longer a mod
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That's surely painful. Merc, wanna talk about it?

Stabshauptmann

bonkey wrote:

Nah.

Didn'tchya know? I was always the softie, no matter how much I spouted on.

Gandalf could never quite find the pair of boots for me

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Shur, whyddya think I'm no longer a mod
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jc

Why are you no longer mod, you had such an air of impartiality and did the job so well?

Mercury_Tilt

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unkel

MBPS :eek: