Community Broadband scheme

imogen

Is anyone here involved in making an application under the Community broadband scheme? Would like to learn from your experiences...

Imogen (Tracton, Co. Cork)

thund3rbird_

try http://www.broadband4kinnegad.com

they've already been successful

marco murphy

One in my area was great

imogen

I had a look at this website but it seems to be basically advertising for a small telecoms provider/ISP, nothing about the community side of getting the funding...

Imogen

thegills

Imogen,
A lot of the current GBS projects have partnered with a BSP as opposed to actually building their own network; I think only one such community was funded under Phase 1.
You should get in touch with your Local Authority GBS Coordinator and see if there are any community meetings arranged.
I am involved a GBS in Co. Clare; drop me a pm if you want specifics.
Dave

causal

Maybe ask oscarBravo , he's a mod on the Archery board, he lists community broadband as a big interest.

hth,
causal

oscarBravo

/paul waves

The bulk of my experience to date has been in a community network that wasn't grant-funded (yet). Nowadays I'm more involved in the ISP side of things.

For real-world experience of being on the community side of a GBS partnership, talk to viking or jwt. For experience of a community going it alone, talk to Ba_barbaraAnne and/or Xian. In any case, talk to your regional co-ordinator, Billy Sheehan.

Do feel free to pick my brains too, of course. (Bring your own tweezers.)

imogen

Thanks for the replies so far - it's talking to Billy that made me realise we need more widely spread advice...

So far I have been told watch the backhaul connection is sufficient and based on the UK experience don't even consider the community association as company approach where the funding goes to the community rather than the ISP.

We are trying to understand how it can ever be economical with only a 30% subsidy in a distributed community like ours. I'm not really seeing any answers and I think it significant that as far as I know no service provider has been in touch...

Thanks for any further advice

Imogen

damien

Imogen. How many service providers have you contacted ? It might be good to stick up a website like Broadband4Kinnegad.com. Dahamsta here on boards is offering to host these community sites for free. Put up the list of all the service providers you contacted and the ones who did and didn't respond to you.

The site can be used as a way of generating interest too. Have you found where you can get backhaul from ?

imogen

Hi Damien

The way the round 2 funding works is that you send in a preliminary data collection and the co-ordinator (that's Billy) goes out to the service providers who then contact the community group.

This is a guy who can't even get his email working reliably and when I sent in the data collection said "oh, that's good, can I use it as a model for other groups?"... as a result I'm not convinced yet given the 28 April deadline for applications, though he's a jolly nice chap. But I suspect he's actually not the problem, it's our distributed geography that is.

I figure we would be looking at a wireless connection from Carrigaline (thoroughly BB enabled due to the chemcos) up to Crosshaven watertower and then into our area due to the topography but what do I know? Mostly just what I have read here. We have an ISDN enabled Ericsson remote AXE exchange to Minane but subscriber numbers are low so I don't hold my breath for eircom if ever.

I'll try and get time to look at doing a website but given the way the application process works I'm not sure it will help. Hey providers if you read these boards (bet they don't) our email is tractonbroadband@hotmail.com ...

All the best

Imogen

damien

Crosshaven is meant to be getting broadband via a GBS scheme with eircom.

Also Amocom are as far as Curabinny now and I think get there via Crosshaven. If you have no faith with Billy talk to John O'Hare in Amocom directly. http://www.amocom.com/ John has a good reputation and it's well deserved as he'll go way out of his way to try and get you broadband.

As for Crosshaven water tower, we talked to the County Council about that before and the amount of red tape and equivocating from them proved too burdensome.

Where is Tracton exactly ? I'm terrible at local geography.

imogen

Tracton is the western side of Cork Harbour below Carrigaline/Ringaskiddy going over as far as Oysterhaven and to the eastern marches of Belgooly. Includes Minane Bridge, Nohoval, Ballyfeard, Ringabella.

I will take the hint on Amocom and pass it on to the group - thanks a million.

Imogen

Ba_barbaraAnne

imogen wrote:

Is anyone here involved in making an application under the Community broadband scheme? Would like to learn from your experiences...

Imogen (Tracton, Co. Cork)

Hi Imogen

I'm project administrator for the Croagh Patrick Community Network Society. We've got our application in for phase 2 funding as our own BISP. We got loads of help from the Group Data Scheme Society (groupdataschemesociety.ie) and from OscarBravo and BMinish. There are no service providers as yet in our area so we are going it alone with, initially ASDL backhaul and then, as we grow, getting wireless backhaul from Westnet, a local company in the process of building a wireless network for Mayo.

I've spent the last 6 months working on this and we are just waiting for grant approval to go ahead with building the network. All the signs from the dept so far are positive, so if I can be of any help just get in touch

imogen

Barbara Anne, why do you feel you will be successful going it alone when the UK experience is that such schemes have serious difficulty going past the first year for financial reasons which is of course why the service providers won't touch them even with (in your case 55% as BMW?) subsidy.

Thanks in advance for your reply, I am really interested to understand why you think this is a good idea.

Imogen

lorcanb

Hi Imogen,
I have just been speaking with Walter form your Group in Tracton and will arrange a meeting with him early next week with a few to Smart partnering with your local community to bring broadband to your area, Smart as you may be aware have joined with the Ballygarvan community to do the same and it seems logical that we roll out the Ballygarvan model to Tracton, hopefully I will meet you then.

Lorcan

Ba_barbaraAnne

imogen wrote:

Barbara Anne, why do you feel you will be successful going it alone when the UK experience is that such schemes have serious difficulty going past the first year for financial reasons which is of course why the service providers won't touch them even with (in your case 55% as BMW?) subsidy.

Thanks in advance for your reply, I am really interested to understand why you think this is a good idea.

Imogen

Hi Imogen,

We knot it is possible because Knockmore did it before the grants came in and have been running successfully for three years. Kinvara have done the same, and our plans are based on thier model.

Because we are a co-operative, and have wide support in the community, our financial exposure is small. Our ability to provide added value services like VOIP, comunity website, noticeboard etc will provide our members with a service that few commercial providers could match at the same cost.

If, at some time in the future, our network becomes too large for a voluntary group to manage we have the option of employing staff through the FAS or RSS schemes, or we could elect to sell out to a larger concern. We have done our sums and are confident that with our resources will wil succeed.

Xian

Originally Posted by imogen
why do you feel you will be successful going it alone when the UK experience is that such schemes have serious difficulty going past the first year for financial reasons which is of course why the service providers won't touch them even with (in your case 55% as BMW?) subsidy.

I would be interested to know your source for this. As far as I can see, networks such as Oxfordshire Rural Broadband, Calder Connect Co-operative and Aylston Cybermoor continue to be successful community-run networks well beyond their first year of operation (the only prominent such network I can find as being a casualty is Edenfaster, which no longer appears to be in operation). Difficulties were indeed experienced by Invisible Networks, Independent Networks and Community Mesh, commercial operations plagued not by finances so much as unrealistic expectations - failing to appreciate the fundamental fact that the grants available are an incentive rather than a prerequisite for a network to be established.

However it may evolve, the Knockmore network demonstrates the long-term viability of a community network. A fifth of all applications under the 1st phase of GBS funding were community-driven initiatives. As with others, the successful Kinvara Group Data Scheme was founded on best practice business principles. Ballygarvan was another such applicant, which after its application was submitted was approached by Smart to participate in their trial network. Another network's application is still pending, due to objectionable delays by the department. All were driven by hard-nosed business people who evaluated, understood and acted on the potential and viability of such a scheme for the community they live in.

imogen

About a month ago a report on success and failure factors in UK community broadband was published. I don't have the ref with me here I will try to post it this evening. In summary, direct funding and backhaul connection technical difficulties were the two most common problems experienced.

In my work relating to teleworking research I have read in detail reports on projects such as Alston Cybermoor and discussed them with my UK colleague Alan Denbigh of the Telework Association which led to a certain cynicism as to the reality of going the direct route. I would like to get more information on the Kinvara project and others which provide counter-examples.

Lorcan, glad to hear you have been in touch with Walter, I hope the meeting will be soon as the deadline for applications is very tight! (24 days and counting...)

Imogen

Xian

Originally posted by imogen
About a month ago a report on success and failure factors in UK community broadband was published.

You must be referring to the Community Broadband Network report at the Access to Broadband Campaign/CBN Spring event last month, Springing Up All Over

From the Press Release:

The “Springing Up All Over” report shows an explosion of community broadband activity across the UK, with a total of 550 broadband initiatives, many in rural areas and under 2 years old....The Community Broadband Network recommends that national and regional government seek to rectify the lack of investment in and support for these projects which are adding tremendous value to the broadband picture in the UK. The development of local strategic partnerships, access to backhaul, and funding could all help to increase the benefits that these initiatives are bringing to the UK.

Top of the listed barriers to development are funding (88%) and backhaul costs (78%). While I would hesitate to agree that funding per se is a problem for such schemes in Ireland, the obstacles and delays the department has put in place that has prevented the development of community networks are unwarranted. It looks like their commitment of a one-month turn-around in the approval of applications announced at the launch of the 2nd phase has already been shown to have been hot air and there remains a clear underestimation of the ability of these community networks to be self-sustaining.

I would rather put backhaul at the top of the list of hindrances to schemes, though. It is unconscionable for Minister Dempsey to continue to crow, as his predecessor did, about the benefits to regional connectivity of the tens of millions invested in so-called "strategic" fibre when the majority of schemes approved are effectively connecting to the internet thousands of miles away. Or should they just eat cake?