Car Insurance: Why are we tolerant of this injustice?

ApeXaviour

It is institutionalised bigotry, nothing less.

To those who do not see it this way. I put it to you that you have merely become accustomed to it. I want you for one second to imagine what would happen if the roles were reversed. Think about it; say women, black people and the middle-aged statistically claimed more. Would we HONESTLY, as a society, allow them to pay more merely on the basis of their sex, race and age?

I think not.

Yes, on average young men claim more. And yes, there are boy racers out there. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM. Why punish me because I happen to be of a similar age to them? My genitals happen to be external, is this a sufficient basis on which to prejudge my ability to drive safely?

I put Canada as an example of a state with a working, fair, car-insurance policy. AFAIK it's government controlled, standardised across the board. Based on personal history, and personal history alone. As it should be.

We have anti-discrimination laws, why do they not extend to this? And why do we tolerate the fact that they do not?

RuggieBear

fight the powah

seamus

(Moved from AH)

The only real reason that it's allowed to stand is because the aggrieved party are young white males. Nobody is willing to fight for young white males. If it was any other group, then rights activists, even those not in that group, would stand up and fight. Even young white males themselves are too lazy and ignorant to bother doing anything about it. They'll bitch and moan, but when it comes to voting or making a stand they'll just sit on their arses.

By the time they actually give a **** about the country and its elected officials they're in their thirties and not paying much insurance at all.

ApeXaviour

seamus wrote:

(Moved from AH)
The only real reason that it's allowed to stand is because the aggrieved party are young white males. Nobody is willing to fight for young white males.

The double standard sickens me..

I disagree with the move btw seamus. This isn't really a motors issue, more of an equality/society one.

seamus

ApeXaviour wrote:

The double standard sickens me..

I disagree with the move btw seamus. This isn't really a motors issue, more of an equality/society one.

Would you like me to move it to Humanities or Politics?

Seth Brundle

join mijag!

Eoin

I think there is a MIJAG forum on boards - probably best suited for this thread.

Borzoi

seamus wrote:

Would you like me to move it to Humanities or Politics?

Any of the above would get my vote

The unfortunate thing about insurance is that you (ie the insurance companies) are allowed discriminate based on 'sound actuarial data' which after years of being in the business and employing actuaries they have.

Of course, the ins companies have been guilty of making a self fulfilling prohecy with young drivers, as over the years they have continually pushed up young drivers premiums, forcing them out of the market, only to return later and still be classified as young. ie the threshold for most companies was 21 then 23 then 27. All that this has done is delay the entry of people into the market resulting in less money to be made (gouged) from them. If your driving life span is 40 years, instead of 45, because you couldn't afford insurance untill you were 30 (say) you'll pay less to the insurance companies. Just a small point I though I'd mention

Boggle

The unfortunate thing about insurance is that you (ie the insurance companies) are allowed discriminate based on 'sound actuarial data' which after years of being in the business and employing actuaries they have.

And this is where it gets fun... According to the lesislation they have to account properly for all variables in order to be allowed to use actuarial data. The trouble is that a) they are their own judges of what will be termed as a relevent stats and b) they are never willing to display the core data on which these tables are built.

An example is this: Is your sex really so much more impportant than your yearly mileage or whether you have a full licence or not?

Could I afford it I'd take them to the courts but I cant so ....

Renegade_Archer

Next time one of those muppety politicians knocks on yer door asking for your vote, ask what theyre going to do about the state of car insurance in this country. I did this once to a local candidate, they went pale.

Kristok

Well unless your willing to do something about it there is no point in complaining, start up something along the lines of ireland offline etc. I spent a fortune over the years paying through the nose for insurance (at least 12k over 3 years) and I would personally encourage anything that helps to force the insurance companies not be able to do it to anyone else. Im sure there is allot of people who would be willing to sign a petition if someone championed it, its not like they need the money with the profits they are making its just typical irish attitute of complaining but still paying anyways.

Eoin

Kristok wrote:

Well unless your willing to do something about it there is no point in complaining, start up something along the lines of ireland offline etc. I spent a fortune over the years paying through the nose for insurance (at least 12k over 3 years) and I would personally encourage anything that helps to force the insurance companies not be able to do it to anyone else. Im sure there is allot of people who would be willing to sign a petition if someone championed it, its not like they need the money with the profits they are making its just typical irish attitute of complaining but still paying anyways.

There is already a specific group set up - MIJAG and have a dedicated forum on boards. From the "sticky" there:

The Motor Insurance Justice Action Group(MIJAG) is a lobby group working with the intention of bringing affordable motor insurance to Irish motorists.

These guys have been around a good few years and even had a candidate in a local election a few years ago. To be honest, I think most the things said in this thread so far are not really new to the whole debate. Check out the forum and see what you think.

Boggle

In fairness - mijag is a lobby group for young people and are never going to be taken seriously by the govt. Not enough votes in it...

The only way to get the govt to listen is to get every discriminated driver to park up in the middle of O'connell street and choke the life out of the city. When the retailers start to complain - then you will have their attention. Unfortunately, money is the only thing that gets their attention these days...

Eoin

Boggle wrote:

In fairness - mijag is a lobby group for young people and are never going to be taken seriously by the govt. Not enough votes in it...

The only way to get the govt to listen is to get every discriminated driver to park up in the middle of O'connell street and choke the life out of the city. When the retailers start to complain - then you will have their attention. Unfortunately, money is the only thing that gets their attention these days...

That is NOT a solution. The government are well aware of peoples feelings on insurance - in particular motor insurance. Hopefully the reports and recommendations coming out will yield results.

A protest like the one you mention will just serve to piss off a huge amount of people. When the taxi drivers did the same thing, I would imagine that it soon removed whatever public sympathy was out there for them.

Boggle

That is NOT a solution. The government are well aware of peoples feelings on insurance - in particular motor insurance. Hopefully the reports and recommendations coming out will yield results.

A protest like the one you mention will just serve to piss off a huge amount of people. When the taxi drivers did the same thing, I would imagine that it soon removed whatever public sympathy was out there for them.

Actually it's the only solution. The govt cant be lobbied on an issue such as this as there's no votes in it. Dont kid yourself that FF have any interest in fairness and equality - those two things never pay the bills.

Like I said the only thing this govt will react to is blockages - look at the truck drivers a few years back. Lets face it, how long is too long to be discriminated against?

Eoin

I am sure suitable protests can be thought up that do not involve seriously inconveniencing innocent business and people. Picket the Dail / Insurance companies or whatever, but do not carry out protests that are likely to turn public opinion against your cause.

Whenever baggage handlers / bus & train drivers / whoever go on strike and mess around with the general public, I lose all sympathy for their cause. I remember the people who worked in the toll booths went on strike a few years ago. Instead of blockading them, they just refused to take money and let everyone through for nothing, handing out flyers with the reasons they were on strike.

Boggle

I agree completely that under general circumstances major "actions" so to speak do have a potential negative effect. However the general level of apathy shown by the general public and their elected representatives does little to inspire confidence that the govt will rectify the situation unless they are made to sweat.

I would also suggest that their is a general feeling of discontent towards the insurance company from the general public (including businesses) that if it was organised properly then you could get the general public onside. That being said perhaps choking a city dead might be an overkill as you said but something like a go-slow (properly organised, as with the truckers the time), with an impending threat of gridlocking the city would be enough to get them to act (hopefully without having the bluff called).