Irish Strikers

GuanYin

Just looking at the strikers we have at our disposal and it seems we have to pick from Keane, Morrisson, Elliot, Connolly, McGeady, Doherty, Barrett and Lee.

From that lot I'd say that only Morrisson, Keane, Elliot and McGeady have the potential to stay in the squad regularly.

The thing is, none of them are great strikers, while they all have their pro's, the all round game (and more importantly strike rate) is lacking.

At the moment our best striker is Morrisson imo. He has scored as consistantly as Keane has in the same period, but more importantly, Morrisson has scored against top opposition.

Keane doesn't score goals against our closest rivals in qualifying group competitions and I said before the competition that he should be scoring at least 4 goals in 6 matches against France, Israel and Switzerland.

So far Morrisson has 2 in 3 and Keane has none.

Elliot looked good against China (against a packed defence) and I'd like to seemore of him. I think he'd play better with Morrisson than Keane though.

McGeady definitely has alot to offer, but after that we dry up.

Is there any otehr viable talent coming through?

A Dub in Glasgo

McGeady is not a striker though. He is an attacking midfield player with some fantastic ball control skills

Keano_sli

I'm afraid thats about our lot, We should at least be glad Elliot should be in the Premiership with Sunderland next season (unless they totally F**K up) and will gain more experience, its as much as we have going for us.

_blank_

You forgot one other striker that Kerr "capped".

Seaneh

If you mean crowe or byrne ill slap ya.

Seriously, Doc is not a striker and kerr is kidding himself if he thinks he is.
He can't even get into a permiership team in his first posistion how can he play international level at his second posistion!?

Slash/ED

Seaneh wrote:

If you mean crowe or byrne ill slap ya.

Yeah they're no Graham "Coventry reserve player couldn't make their poxy bench" Barrett :rolleyes:

Draupnir

I think he means Jon Macken. Who for me isnt too bad. Hes better than Jason Byrne, just, and Glen Crowe, by a lot.

But still, its Keane, Morrison and Elliot for me. And I see nothing wrong with throwing the DOC on for the last ten minutes and lashing balls up to him if we need a goal. Keane and Elliot would both do well from his knock downs.

_blank_

Draupnir wrote:

I think he means Jon Macken.

I actually meant Jason Byrne.

McCarthy capped Crowe, not Kerr, as far as I remember.

I had forgotten Macken.

Slash/ED

Givens and Kerr both capped Crowe. McCarthy brought Crowe (And Geoghegan) into Irish sqauds essentially as a píss take.

Seaneh

Slash/ED wrote:

Yeah they're no Graham "Coventry reserve player couldn't make their poxy bench" Barrett :rolleyes:

Id rather have a reserve player from a professional outfit with a proper training structre, good coaches and a proper physio than a eircomleague player.

Eircom league Premier Div. is the same level as league 2 in england and anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

wheres me jumpa

yeah i remember geoghegan!i think duff could be considered a forward,if reid is to be played it should be played on the left or maybe in the centre.

Slash/ED

Seaneh wrote:

Id rather have a reserve player from a professional outfit with a proper training structre, good coaches and a proper physio than a eircomleague player.

Eircom league Premier Div. is the same level as league 2 in england and anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

Ahh that explains why Barrett got completley outplayed by O'Flynn when they both played for the Irish U21s.

_blank_

Seaneh wrote:

Id rather have a reserve player from a professional outfit with a proper training structre, good coaches and a proper physio than a eircomleague player.

Eircom league Premier Div. is the same level as league 2 in england and anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

How many eL games have you been to in the past two years say?

Slash/ED

seansouth wrote:

How many eL games have you been to in the past two years say?

Sure he doesn't need to goto EL games to know that Byrne and Crowe don't play for a professional outfit, have no training structure at all, no coaches and don't even have a physio. The English midlands reserve league is so far ahead of us right now it's only a mysteoury why we haven't got any more budding international superstars in the Barrett mould to play for us.

Draupnir

Slash/ED wrote:

Ahh that explains why Barrett got completley outplayed by O'Flynn when they both played for the Irish U21s.

I dunno how true that is to be honest, I was at a good few under 21 games when they played together and to be fair to both of them, neither was exactly world class.

Seaneh

seansouth wrote:

How many eL games have you been to in the past two years say?

Most athlone home games actually...

havent been down to mels this season yet but was at the dublin city game at the end of lasyt season.

why do you ask?

galwaydude

thats stupid to suggest that league of ireland is like divison 2 in england.Teams like shelbourne and cork are better than the likes of rochdale and bury. Also how many times have the likes of bury played la coruna in the champs league.Watch the league instead of making stupid statesments like that.The only teams on a par with shelbourne and cork city are the likes of yeovil and northampton in div 2. maybe league 1 lower level for the likes of shlebourne.Then again teams in england get more money from tv and the likes so cant make a sensible comparison.

Slash/ED

Draupnir wrote:

I dunno how true that is to be honest, I was at a good few under 21 games when they played together and to be fair to both of them, neither was exactly world class.

O'Flynns scoring rate for the U21s was very impressive,e spically given how poor they were at the time (They were awful). Barretts was far inferior and he was a far inferior player.

Wes Hoolahan got nominated for U21 player of the year whilst in the same team as Barrett, who did not. He kept Andy Reid either out of he team or out of position while he was still available. Of course, these mickey mouse reserve lower league footballers are still miles better than the ones who nearly made the bleedin' champions league :rolleyes:

Slash/ED

Seaneh wrote:

Most athlone home games actually...

havent been down to mels this season yet but was at the dublin city game at the end of lasyt season.

why do you ask?

So you're judgeing the standard of Shels and co based on....Athlone

Okay then....

Seaneh

Slash/ED wrote:

O'Flynns scoring rate for the U21s was very impressive,e spically given how poor they were at the time (They were awful). Barretts was far inferior and he was a far inferior player.

Wes Hoolahan got nominated for U21 player of the year whilst in the same team as Barrett, who did not. He kept Andy Reid either out of he team or out of position while he was still available. Of course, these mickey mouse reserve lower league footballers are still miles better than the ones who nearly made the bleedin' champions league :rolleyes:

Wow shelbourne played in the CL against depor!! OMGsss!

Barry Town played in the CL quals last year, so did the champions of Latvia, estonia, croatia, gorgia and a host of other sh!te leagues, whats your fu*king point?

_blank_

Seaneh wrote:

Most athlone home games actually...

havent been down to mels this season yet but was at the dublin city game at the end of lasyt season.

why do you ask?

Right so, you have been to games in the First Division, yet make judgemants on teams in the top half of the Premier?

Seaneh

Slash/ED wrote:

So you're judgeing the standard of Shels and co based on....Athlone

Okay then....

Next year we'll have the best soccer stadium in the country, keep laughing .

Also how can Byrne be played ahead of fitzpatrick... who by the way learned everything he knows at ATFC.

Des Hope would be a better option for the irish squad than Byrne.

Slash/ED

Seaneh wrote:

Wow shelbourne played in the CL against depor!! OMGsss!

Barry Town played in the CL quals last year, so did the champions of Latvia, estonia, croatia, gorgia and a host of other sh!te leagues, whats your fu*king point?

Yeah because Barry Town and co made the 3rd round qualifyers and kept Depor scoreless until the last 30 minutes then drew with Lille in the UEFA cup, didn't they?

It's at this point I stop taking you seriously. You're either on a wind up or you haven't a clue, I hope for your sake it's the first.

Seaneh

seansouth wrote:

Right so, you have been to games in the First Division, yet make judgemants on teams in the top half of the Premier?

We playe Bohs preseason, didnt really look special.
we played longford in the cup last season, again never looked much better than the town.

Draupnir

Slash/ED wrote:

O'Flynns scoring rate for the U21s was very impressive,e spically given how poor they were at the time (They were awful). Barretts was far inferior and he was a far inferior player.

Wes Hoolahan got nominated for U21 player of the year whilst in the same team as Barrett, who did not. He kept Andy Reid either out of he team or out of position while he was still available. Of course, these mickey mouse reserve lower league footballers are still miles better than the ones who nearly made the bleedin' champions league :rolleyes:

Rose tinted Eircom League fan glasses should be removed before posting mate. Having played football at quite a high level and played with a few players who are now Internationals, I rate myself a good judge of a player. Hoolahan for me is a good dribbler but very poor defensively. With better coaching he could make it in the championship in England quite comfortably.

He actually did well for the U21's so I wont argue with you there.

I do think O'Flynns scoring record is good, but in the games I saw for the u21's his touch and close control was appalling. Technically, just not a top level player. Barret for me, is a better player. Stronger and more technically astute. Good first touch and good distribution. More a right winger than a forward now.

As for the Champions League thing, thats a joke really. Shels one won game in that whole run and the Depor matches were terrible. I think Depor scored 1 goal in the first round proper. Shels created 3 chances in 2 games against the weakest team in the Champions League proper. So it would be hard to say they were of the required standard. Granted, I enjoyed the buzz of Dublins football community at the time, but genuinely, the team wasnt good enough.

I would rate Eircom Premier teams as ranging from League 2 England to the top of League 1. One or two clubs could fight for survival in the Championship.

Töpher

Seaneh wrote:

Also how can Byrne be played ahead of fitzpatrick... who by the way learned everything he knows at ATFC.

Not gonna bother responding to anything else you've said, but so far this season Fitzpatricks been injured. Should be back soon. He was fantastic last season so here's hoping his return is quick.

case n basket

Anthony Stokes, 16 year old striker. Very promising.

Slash/ED

Draupnir wrote:

I do think O'Flynns scoring record is good, but in the games I saw for the u21's his touch and close control was appalling. Technically, just not a top level player. Barret for me, is a better player. Stronger and more technically astute. Good first touch and good distribution. More a right winger than a forward now.

So why couldn't Barrett manage to score at a remotely consistent rate for the U21s? "More a right winger than a forward?" That's not what he thinks, he fell out with the Coventry management and refused to play on the right because he seems himself exclusively as a forward.

As for the Champions League thing, thats a joke really. Shels one won game in that whole run and the Depor matches were terrible. I think Depor scored 1 goal in the first round proper. Shels created 3 chances in 2 games against the weakest team in the Champions League proper. So it would be hard to say they were of the required standard. Granted, I enjoyed the buzz of Dublins football community at the time, but genuinely, the team wasnt good enough.

won one game, who bloody cares? We won two ties, that's what matters, how we won them is irrelevent. 3 chances in 2 games against a team that had months previously put 4 past Milan without reply over 90 minutes and are currently challenging for a champions league spot in Spain and you say it like it proves the EL is rubbish? Come off it ffs. I don't doubt the team wasn't good enough for the CL proper at the time but we were close and it proves were better than bloody league 2 sides who that other idiot was comparing us too.

I would rate Eircom Premier teams as ranging from League 2 England to the top of League 1. One or two clubs could fight for survival in the Championship.

I'd agree with that really, and since one of those one or two sides has both players we're talking about here, Byrne and Crowe, that's what's important. They should be considered for the team long before someone who struggled to make the bench in his own struggling championship side instead of dismissed out of hand.

dcarroll

psi wrote:

Just looking at the strikers we have at our disposal and it seems we have to pick from Keane, Morrisson, Elliot, Connolly, McGeady, Doherty, Barrett and Lee.

From that lot I'd say that only Morrisson, Keane, Elliot and McGeady have the potential to stay in the squad regularly.

The thing is, none of them are great strikers, while they all have their pro's, the all round game (and more importantly strike rate) is lacking.

At the moment our best striker is Morrisson imo. He has scored as consistantly as Keane has in the same period, but more importantly, Morrisson has scored against top opposition.

Keane doesn't score goals against our closest rivals in qualifying group competitions and I said before the competition that he should be scoring at least 4 goals in 6 matches against France, Israel and Switzerland.

So far Morrisson has 2 in 3 and Keane has none.

Elliot looked good against China (against a packed defence) and I'd like to seemore of him. I think he'd play better with Morrisson than Keane though.

McGeady definitely has alot to offer, but after that we dry up.

Is there any otehr viable talent coming through?

Anthony Stokes, only 16, or even Daryl Murphy if he goes to Ipswich

Draupnir

Ive played with Glen Crowe and to be honest, the guy is about as far from International standard as my milkman. He just doesnt have the pace, control or vision necessary. He would be chewed up and spit out by the likes of Boumsong, Ferdinand, Maldini etc.

As for Jason Byrne, he would be ahead of Crowe for me, except for the fact that he seemed to freeze and let the occasion get to him in the Depor games. Also, I honestly just dont think he is good enough.

_blank_

Actually, Barry Town were not playing in the CL last season.

They were in fact in the division below the Welsh Premier(Motaquote Welsh League Division 1 ), which would lead me to believe they were relegated in the previous season, or one before it.

Seaneh

Draupnir wrote:

Ive played with Glen Crowe and to be honest, the guy is about as far from International standard as my milkman. He just doesnt have the pace, control or vision necessary. He would be chewed up and spit out by the likes of Boumsong, Ferdinand, Maldini etc.

As for Jason Byrne, he would be ahead of Crowe for me, except for the fact that he seemed to freeze and let the occasion get to him in the Depor games. Also, I honestly just dont think he is good enough.

Thank you.

BTW, whats your name?

Slash/ED

Draupnir wrote:

Ive played with Glen Crowe and to be honest, the guy is about as far from International standard as my milkman. He just doesnt have the pace, control or vision necessary. He would be chewed up and spit out by the likes of Boumsong, Ferdinand, Maldini etc.

As for Jason Byrne, he would be ahead of Crowe for me, except for the fact that he seemed to freeze and let the occasion get to him in the Depor games. Also, I honestly just dont think he is good enough.

I agree Crowe doesn't have the pace for international football but would still consider him better than a midlands reserve league player. However Byrne is international standard and it's harsh to say he froze against Depor, he missed a good chance with his head but his all round play was excellent when he was played up front, held the ball up well, passed and moved well and was technically sound. The contrast between him and Fitzpatrick who did the same role in the home match was huge imo.

valor

Why do you have Boumsong in the same sentence as good defenders !?!

KdjaCL

We have Keane as our best striker and hes a very good striker when the sun shines ie Finals. Doing al right at Spurs , well spurs fans love hom so thats a good thing, never had a decent strikerate anywhere as he needs someone to play off.

Sadly Morrison our best chance of a goal and shamefully a complete donkey whos €60 football boots are wasted on him.

Elliot is a Div 1 player whos not a regular for sunderland (granted Mac knows he needs to kick his way out of Div 1 so plays other strikes ahead of him. POssible player for finals should we make it.

Mac Geady is an attacking midfielder who could prolly do a job playing behind morrision in about 3 years time ...:( is for donkey boy <

Lee well ummm plays for Cardiff nuff said.

Doherty will prolly never play for Ireland again.

Crowe heh hes slow clumsy always seems of the pace in games but buries easy chances thats about it.

Byrne left Bray too late to actually step up a grade (should have signed for Pats, lad would played vs Celtic and been in England ever since "could have been" a decent player. That term will haunt him his entire career.


God we fcuked up front.


kdjac

applehunter

2 years ago John O'Flynn was as good a young player as Ireland had. He was better than Barrett and is the best player Ive ever seen in the League of Ireland. However, since the the injury he got up at Belfield he hasnt been the same player. He has lost that pace that made him a cut above the rest. He needs to get that injury sorted out.

I wouldn't put Crowe up to international standard because he lacks the pace at that level.

There are excellent young strikers in the league at the moment. Byrne at Shels, Doyle at Cork, Murphy at Waterford, and Fabio O'Brien at Drogheda are all excellent players. Whether they are good enough for the international team is unknown. But, just because they play here in Ireland doesn't mean they are bad players.

I don't think accurate comparisons can be made with English lower divisions. And Athlone Town were so far away from the standard in the premier division that they cannot be used a gauge at all.

I went to a Cobh vs Athlone match last year and Athlone's centre half was so fat, unfit and slow it was untrue.

Seaneh

applehunter wrote:

I went to a Cobh vs Athlone match last year and Athlone's centre half was so fat, unfit and slow it was untrue.

Big des has lost about 2 and a half stone this preseason its mad, im afraid its going to be like samsons hair and he wont be as good.

Good news thoug is that yom silke has been benched.

NO MORE LONGFORD PLAYERS!

haha.

Guy:Incognito

Slash/ED wrote:

I agree Crowe doesn't have the pace for international football but would still consider him better than a midlands reserve league player. However Byrne is international standard and it's harsh to say he froze against Depor, he missed a good chance with his head but his all round play was excellent when he was played up front, held the ball up well, passed and moved well and was technically sound. The contrast between him and Fitzpatrick who did the same role in the home match was huge imo.

Not being smart, but if Byrne is, as you reckon, "international stasndard", why is he still playing in the el and not with a premiership/championship side?

thejollyrodger

thats savage abuse on Clinton KdjaC. Obviously you dont rate him at all. He has nine goals at international level and looks as though he has finally settled into the side. I would hardly call him a donkey. Another goal or two and its respectable.

High praise for Robbie, but he takes peno's and a lot of his goals were scrappy affairs. There is a massive amount Robbie has to do, I wouldnt give him such high praise just yet.

KdjaCL

thejollyrodger wrote:

thats savage abuse on Clinton KdjaC. Obviously you dont rate him at all. He has nine goals at international level and looks as though he has finally settled into the side. I would hardly call him a donkey. Another goal or two and its respectable.

High praise for Robbie, but he takes peno's and a lot of his goals were scrappy affairs. There is a massive amount Robbie has to do, I wouldnt give him such high praise just yet.

I honeslty dont think he should be a footballer let alone play for Ireland (that may also inflate my hate )

He cant pass, barley shoot without falling over, his hold up play involves backing into defenders (always crap defenders odd that) his heading ability is laughable yet he has 9 goals for a team which doesnt create much, i would pick Keanes good points and Duff as the reason he has 9 goals. Usually off the back of somfin good they did.

I like Keaae he has a good footballing brain but sometimes hes abit ahead of other players, and his tendency to either shoot when he shouldnt or pass when he should have shot < thats annoying but still good footballer when sun is shining (he did score nearly goal a game in WC).


kdjac

Slash/ED

Stekelly wrote:

Not being smart, but if Byrne is, as you reckon, "international stasndard", why is he still playing in the el and not with a premiership/championship side?

Because he earns as much at home as he would at some medicore championship team and has the added bonus of being able to live at home and is playing for a team that is hopeing to qualify for the champions league.

Draupnir

KdjaC wrote:

Elliot is a Div 1 player whos not a regular for sunderland (granted Mac knows he needs to kick his way out of Div 1 so plays other strikes ahead of him. POssible player for finals should we make it.
kdjac

this was when I became certain that you had no knowledge of football outside Irish internationals and Match of the Day.

Stephen Elliot is Sunderlands top scorer and has missed about 8/10 games all season, mostly through injury.

applehunter

Tabb at Brentford is a good player too. More of a no. 10 than centre forward though.

eirebhoy

Slash/ED wrote:

So why couldn't Barrett manage to score at a remotely consistent rate for the U21s?

You seem to hate Barrett. When Elliott broke the U21 goalscoring record, the previous record was held by Barrett and Andy Reid so he was scoring.

Kdjak wrote:

never had a decent strikerate anywhere as he needs someone to play off.

Look who's in 49th position:
http://soccer-europe.com/Data/Rankings/Top50Goalscorers.html

He is one of eight 21-24 year olds on the list. Not bad. Hasn't been updated since last summer but if it was he'd be even higher up that chart as he's having a very good season.

GuanYin

Reid only started playing his best footy last year, so anyone who kept him out of the U"! set up wasn't achieving much (especially seeing as Paul HArt once gave him a 6 month ultimatum).

Barret now plays for Sheffield Weds, not coventry.

applehunter

psi wrote:

Reid only started playing his best footy last year, so anyone who kept him out of the U"! set up wasn't achieving much (especially seeing as Paul HArt once gave him a 6 month ultimatum).

Barret now plays for Sheffield Weds, not coventry.

I'd take that point. Reid has really come on in the last year and a half. When he was in the u-21's he wasnt really a stand out player. I remember going to u-21 match at Turners Cross vs Germany. He was playing left wing and didnt do anything. It ended 2-1 to Ireland i think. John O'flynn got the first from a barrett throughball and O'Flynn set up Liam Miller for the winner. Hitzilsberger got the german goal.

Liam Miller and John O'Flynn were the best players on the pitch that day. All the Cork City players were up in the Shed cheering John O'Flynn on. I think they even managed to get sandwitches at half time up there too.

Slash/ED

eirebhoy wrote:

You seem to hate Barrett. When Elliott broke the U21 goalscoring record, the previous record was held by Barrett and Andy Reid so he was scoring.

Don't hate him, just don't rate him. And he held the record because he played alot of games, his goals/games ratio was inferior to O'Flynns.

Guy:Incognito

Slash/ED wrote:

Because he earns as much at home as he would at some medicore championship team and has the added bonus of being able to live at home and is playing for a team that is hopeing to qualify for the champions league.

but surely international class would be worth a top championship side at least?

eirebhoy

Slash/ED wrote:

Don't hate him, just don't rate him. And he held the record because he played alot of games, his goals/games ratio was inferior to O'Flynns.

Interesting. What are their goals/games ratio's?

Slash/ED

eirebhoy wrote:

Interesting. What are their goals/games ratio's?

I can't seem to find Barretts but O'Flynn is 6 caps 3 goals, which is a 1 in 2 average and works out better when you consider his first two appearences were off the bench afaik. Barretts record was inferior, I'm certain, but I can't find it anywhere.

Stekelly wrote:

but surely international class would be worth a top championship side at least?

Not Irish international class, given the people who have been capped in this position recently.

Big Nelly

Slash/ED wrote:

Yeah they're no Graham "Coventry reserve player couldn't make their poxy bench" Barrett :rolleyes:

He is actually Graham "On loan at Shef Wednesday first team player" Barrett......and to say we are glad to have him......played 2 games so far and scored one.....has looked good in both games but really we didnt play well the other nite when we lost our first in 19 games.....