VC++ or VB

Cerberus

I am going building a windows application. The main functions it will be performing will be taking in data, performing a few calculations and (hopefully) outputing data to Excel for transformation into a few graphs. I have no experience using VC++ or VB but I have a fairly good knowledge of C++. Which of these visual languages would be the best and easiest to use? Is what I am doing a fairly simple thing to do in either of these Visual languages? I presume I would be better of using VC++ because of my C++ experience so where would I get a good tutorial? Any help would be appreciated..

kayos

VB would be by far the simpler in this case, as for performance I tend to dissagree with Trojan. VB is pretty much the same as c++ at lower end stuff its were your doing huge enterprise apps that the difference is worth taking note off imho. Excel has VBA built in for things like this. VB is easy to code even if you don't really understand whats going on you can give a good guess. I would give you a week to learn enough VB and to complete the app. Post as you get stuck and I'll try to help out.

kayos

Cerberus

Thanks lads..I'll think I'll go with VB for a start. VC++ is not installed properly on my machine anyways...missing a rake of libraries. The app itself is not going to be comlicated. It will just be "Enter value 1" and so on for a rake of different values.
It's just making the windees and accessing Excel that I am not sure of.

Trojan

It's hard to really say without some more info - e.g. is performance going to be a major issue? VB isn't always the most performant, esp compared to C++. What kind of data files are you reading from? etc.

While I am not a VB fan it has it's uses, and it may be more appropriate to what you're talking about - I think it would be a simpler tool to do this job. It's not hard to pick up some VB skills relatively[1] quickly.

VC++ is not quite as Visual as the name suggests, but mess around with the application wizard, it can throw a UI together pretty quickly too.

Al.

1. Relative to learning C++ obviously

LoLth

hmmm, just a thought.

VB is event driven, right? as in, it goes from one user action to the next. It's also nice and easy to display output and organise so it looks nice. However, C++ is better at the non-event stuff, calculations data manipulation etc... (this is all mainly speculation by the way, I'm not stating these as *facts*.)... so, would it be worthwhile to design the application in VB (the frontend anyway), and have it run VB to get to the next event, then call up C++ or VC++ to handle the data side of things? It it too messy?

Also, exactly what use is Delphi? I always thought it was a programming language of its own, specifically suitable for windows applications but I read somewhere that it's more like a sort of 'binder' for your V/C++ VB programs, just keeping them all together and organised for presentation. I also read that it's good for producing web applications, this true?

Trojan

Originally posted by LoLth:
VB is event driven, right? C++ is better at the non-event stuff, calculations data manipulation etc...

It is correct to say that VB is event driven, but it is very easy to set up automated events to drive the program, the simplist example I can think of is the Form_load event, if you put something in there (for the main app window) it happens as soon as the program is run. Then there's timers, subs, etc, etc, so no need to worry about this issue.

... so, would it be worthwhile to design the application in VB (the frontend anyway), and have it run VB to get to the next event, then call up C++ or VC++ to handle the data side of things? It it too messy?

It's very possible, especially if you create a dll for the C functions, but it might be just more hassle than its worth if you can do the whole thing in VB.

Also, exactly what use is Delphi? I always thought it was a programming language of its own, specifically suitable for windows applications but I read somewhere that it's more like a sort of 'binder' for your V/C++ VB programs, just keeping them all together and organised for presentation. I also read that it's good for producing web applications, this true?

I dunno much about producing web apps, but afaik basically Delphi is VB with Pascal instead of BASIC in the background. Slosh is a Delphi guy, if you're really interested you should get on to him.

VB isn't always the most performant, esp compared to C++.

kayos, I think you picked me up wrong here, I am trying really hard not to get a dig in against VB. What I mean is that no matter how good an interpreter, a compiled language must by definition be more performant - it doesn't have that extra layer to go through. However, that may be negligible compared to the time it takes to get a C++ app doing the same thing as a VB one...

Al.

--

amdsoft.com

kayos

Lolth vb is very east to carry out data manipulation where I work we have a whole rating system done in vb. I think VB is just as powerful as c++ when it come to certain areas. But I do reconigse that C++ comes into its own in certain areas (I would hate to write Quake in VB ). The most commom use for VB is database work from simple desktop apps to enterprise apps (and yes C++ can out do VB for certain things in enterprise). But back to this topic if you know VC++ and VB then its down to which you prefer but can do it one as good as the other, but if you aint up to scratch on either VB would be the easy one to pick up.

and trojan no problems

kayos

Cerberus

Any ideas where I would get a good tutorial on VB? I am getting a book on Vb5 tomorrow but I would like to pass away the rest of today getting a start on it..

Trojan

Here's some links, I haven't looked at these in a while, so I'm sure the VB boys ( hi kayos ) will come up with something better:
http://vbtutorial.programmer.webjump.com/ http://www.vb-helper.com/tutorial.htm http://www.vbexplorer.com/ http://www.extreme-vb.net/

Ah, our first religious war, VB vs C - we're becoming a true board! Wait til the perl boys starting talking ****e too!

Al.

Cerberus

At least the C++ers will have the "Holy See"
on their side /*moan/* sorry - had to get it in.
I started doing VB there now and I have to say it reminds me of the shootem'up constuction kits you could get for the C64 (hope I'm not the only one who remembers them). Cool. Dragging bits an pieces around the screen. After 5 minutes of doing an example I think I will be able to do 3/4 of the application I am doing. This is cool.

Thanks lads for the advice..

kayos

Hmm VB = C64 shoot'em up kits I don't think so BTW I remember programming on those lovely blue screened babies. Well the form sort of stuff is easy on VB and so's everything else but is it as fast as you can make it?? thats the trick with VB.

As for Vb vs C .... I seem to remember reading some where that VB will be able to call inline C# (C-Sharp). I'm probaly totaly wrong on that but it would be cool. Should be getting a copy of .net soon

kayos

if you want to get into the com side of vb try
VB Com tutorial
I did a course at xmass with the guy who wrote this course and he is damn good btw he works with don box so remember "COM IS LOVE"

Kayos

Cerberus

Has vb an issue with speed? You guys seem to mention it a lot. I would assume it only becomes an issue when designing a huge application that needs to perform a multiude of operations in a very short period of time.
I did a project in college a while ago where we had a speed issue. We had to design a calculator that could (in theory) work with numbers of any size. However there was a cap put on the length of time that the program could run to give an answer so I have experience with performance issues. So I presume this type of application is what ye would consider Vb having problems with? Or would it have problems with much smaller apps?
This application I am building is going to be processing readings from a dyno(eg engine torque, pressure, bhp and the like). So there is going to be a motorbike screaming and roaring beside the computer at around 20000rpm. Now while it will not be taking in the data at a hectic rate, the least amount of hangups and delays that are possible would be appreciated by the operator (as u can imagine). I think I will go ahead with vb anyway regardless beacuse VC++ is not installed properly(missing .h files) on my machine.

Shiminay

C++ and even VC++ runs at a lower level as it's a compiled language. VB is an interpreted language, which means it has one more layer to go through.

But...

Aren't newer versions of VB compiled and also Object Orientated???

Oh ya, Perl RULES!!!
btw - I know nothing about Perl, that was a joke

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

Trojan

OO-VB? Are you taking the utter pi$$?

What is the world coming to?

Al.

kayos

Cerberus the answer to your Vb and speed question is yes and no. It all depends on the app. You calculator example probaly would suffer a small preformance issue when hitting the huge numbers. I know of a place that is using VB to write into a DB every couple of milli seconds from equipment and this is a place where speed issues would cost a lot of money!! So VB is up to doing the exact sort of stuff you want.

The Main issues for you as I can see them are as follows:
how are you going to trigger the reading of data
Your VB has to be optimised well, remember that VB is will wait untill the function returns back.

Would it be possible to write all your info in MSSQL?? If so you could just use VB to call a stored proc that process and saves all your data. Then just extract the data you want into excell (using DTS if your using SQL7).

Cheers,
Kayos

kayos

VB OO YES even atm more so in VB7 so HaHa. He's not taking the pi$$ as our whole system is OO and its also VB so there.

spod

Originally posted by kayos:
VB OO YES even atm more so in VB7 so HaHa. He's not taking the pi$$ as our whole system is OO and its also VB so there.

Yup as painful as it is to admit it, all that com stuff is easy, and exceptionally OO

Not quite on the bertrand meyer eiffel[1] or even smalltalk level yet though.......

Seemingly vb2k [2] or whatever it's gonna gonna be called will include:

Inheritance, Encapsulation, Overloading, Polymorphism, Paramatrized Constructors, as well as language developments like Threading.

All very impressive really. I still can't shake the feeling that's it's not a proper language. Guess it's because I do too much asp work with VBScript (ugh) and because I'm a curly brace bigot, gimmee c++ or java anyday...

spod phj33r my f00tn0t3 t3kn33q

[1] http://www.eiffel.com
[2] http://www.msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/nextgen/technology/language.asp



[This message has been edited by spod (edited 02-08-2000).]

Shiminay

{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
Curly Braces are the business

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

spod

Originally posted by Kharn:
{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
Curly Braces are the business

Definitely!

I mean, what kinda language doesn't de-note the end of a statement with a semi-colon?

Or have assignment with pre and post increment/decrement/mulitply/divide etc...

begin sub end sub my **** !

Cerberus

I can just see the headlines now - Rival programming gangs clash in city centre - 7 people rebooted, 2 crashed and 1 stuck in an infinite loop. Ops crew called in to quell the uprising. The rival gangs are figthing over which is better - VB or VC++. More trouble expected at next caffeine break

Draco

Originally posted by Cerberus:
I can just see the headlines now - Rival programming gangs clash in city centre - 7 people rebooted, 2 crashed and 1 stuck in an infinite loop. Ops crew called in to quell the uprising. The rival gangs are figthing over which is better - VB or VC++. More trouble expected at next caffeine break

We don't need to fight - VC++ is *far* superior. VB plebs should realise this and bow down before our leetness.


Draco

Trojan

C++: You accidently create a dozen instances of yourself and shoot them all in the foot. Medical assistance is impossible since you can't tell which are bitwise copies and which are just pointing at others and saying "That's me, over there."


VISUAL BASIC: You'll shoot yourself in the foot, but you'll have so much fun doing it that you won't care.

Which do you prefer?

Al.

spod

Originally posted by Trojan:
Which do you prefer?

Al.

Well, it's c++, innit?

Karla

Cerburus, use VB if you're not doing too many calculations or if you don't mind banging you're head on the wall all day (you get used to it after a while )


Oh and Kharn - Perl actually does rule
Heck, Cerburus, do it in Perl, you'll thank me for it.

==============

Hang on! I've a brilliant idea that'll really get the programming board going. Let's start a flame war!

Shiminay

Originally posted by Karla:
Oh and Kharn - Perl actually does rule
Heck, Cerburus, do it in Perl, you'll thank me for it.

I agree Karla!!! I'm playing with it every day!!! You see, I'm a Web Developer, I'm not a real programmer

Anyway, C++ is the God of Programming Languages. I wish I didn't suck so much at it
VB is the Muppet of Programming languages, but, muppets can provide a lot of entertainment, so go figure VB is a very useful language, but too fúck-abouty for my taste!

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

[This message has been edited by Kharn (edited 03-08-2000).]

Trojan

Well, machine code is the real deal at the end of the day folks, and asm ain't too bad either ...

Gotta love plain ol' C though!

Al.

Woohoo - 100 posts



[This message has been edited by Trojan (edited 03-08-2000).]

Void

Oh please....
I'm in AWE of all the l33t programmers posting here, such as Draco, who's just out of college but thinks he knows everything for some reason.

VB Enterprise Edition is NOT an interpreted language. You can compile straight to an exe and the compiler optimises for P6 etc. Savage floating point performance. Get your facts straight before running your mouth off.

You only need to use VC++ when doing low level savage stuff. Which most people do NOT do, despite what they think. Designing GUI's in VC++ is a pain if you're doing it low level (without using MFC).

Baz_

personally i just love programming and no matter what language i had to program in i think i would enjoy it

spod

Originally posted by Void:
Designing GUI's in VC++ is a pain if you're doing it low level (without using MFC).

Have to agree with that completely. Raw win32 api programming in c (it tries to be oo but it so isn't, kinda like mfc really but more painful) especially for GUI stuff, lots of messing with resource files *shudder*

DeVore

Here Here Void!

Lads, if you dont know wtf you are on about (and thats about 3/4 of the people above) then get off the stage and dont bring your beard-and-sandals-wannabee misinformation here.

Sorry if I am ratty but I cannot abide the holier-then-tho-my-language-has-more-pointers-then-yours-ists.

1. VB is fully compiled. Has been since Version 5.0

2. VB is capable of just about any call into the OS that VC++ is. You just have to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH IT. The reason most people shoot themselves in the foot with VB is that they dont.

3. There is no appeciable execution speed difference between C++ and VB any longer given the compiled nature of VB and the increase in hardware speeds.

4. There IS an appreciable difference in development-time-to-market which if any of the "die hard leet" types looked up from their slide rules for one moment and took account of the OTHER requirements on a commerecial programmer for one moment they would realise are just as important as technical purity.

For enterprise level data collection, standard UI manipulation or COM object creation you cannot beat VB.

For low-level (look it up, it involves things like the windows internal messaging queue) stuff then use VC++ for fine control.

If you want both, then write objects with VC++ drop them into VB and use them as building blocks.

Whatever you do, dont start switching processes to hand control back and forth like someone was suggesting... nor write in Perl unless you are certain your company has the future skills to support it going forward.

Most of all if you dont *know* something, or you dont have at least a few years *COMMERCIAL* programming experience then please check your facts/opinions or run back to college where noone has to make money from your work.

Damn I hate JAFA's

Tom.