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VC++ or VB

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    #32
    kayos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭kayos


    Well said Devore I respect the point about business exp. (of which I've over 2 years). It makes all the difference you ask any manager what they want when they buy software and you'll get three things

    Quick delevery time
    Cheap
    Reliable

    if all the above have to be meet C++ is out of the question. Why?
    Quick Dev time not a hope unless you have a big dev team which pushs up costs.
    Cheap generally C++ gurus get paid (I don't know why) more so up go the costs.
    Reliable yes C++ can meet this.

    Now answer the above conditions with VB
    Quick Dev Time YES YES AND YES AGAIN
    Cheap since VB is quick to dev in this reduces the Dev team size and thus reduces cost
    Reliable Yes VB can meet this as well as C++

    now which would you choose?

    Kayos


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    #33
    Draco
    Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    Originally posted by Void:
    Oh please....
    I'm in AWE of all the l33t programmers posting here, such as Draco, who's just out of college but thinks he knows everything for some reason.
    Excuse me? Do you know me? I am *not* just out of college. And I certainly do not think I know everything. I made an off the cuff smart ar$e comment. Notice the little smilie face at the end? You know, the thing that means "This is a joke"?

    Draco




    [This message has been edited by Draco (edited 08-08-2000).]


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    #34
    Draco
    Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    Originally posted by spod:
    Have to agree with that completely. Raw win32 api programming in c (it tries to be oo but it so isn't, kinda like mfc really but more painful) especially for GUI stuff, lots of messing with resource files *shudder*
    Why would you use it when MFC is there?
    I thought the whole point of MFC is so that you don't have to go near the raw API. I know MFC is far from perfect, but at least it helps a little bit.

    Draco


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    #35
    spod
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭spod


    Originally posted by Draco:
    Why would you use it when MFC is there?
    I thought the whole point of MFC is so that you don't have to go near the raw API. I know MFC is far from perfect, but at least it helps a little bit.

    Draco

    well, using MFC adds alot to the size of your app. There are things which you can't do through MFC which you can through raw api, generally painful low level stuff, like device driver tinkering or whatever pain you're into. Having said that, for c++ dev, especially gui stuff MFC is a big help.

    Oh, and the last time I used raw win32 api for a full project was aages ago in college for a systems programming course where you *had* to use raw api calls. It was unpleasant.

    From a business pov I have to agree with Kayos, devore completely.

    VB makes perfect sense for 99% of stuff. For the other 1% of stuff write a c++ com to do the tricky stuff and use it in your VB app.

    From a pure fun/enjoyment pov well, it's c++.

    For a nice in between, when it's work stuff, deadlines still matter but you just can't stand doing yet more crap in Basic then I like java personally. It's quite easy to write coms in java. Once you get into it, it's pretty quick as well. It's a nice in between between the low level nastyness of c++ and the drag and drop brain numbing of vb.

    Unfortunately, ms seem to be dropping support for java in favour of this new c# thing I haven't had a chance to look into yet..

    [This message has been edited by spod (edited 08-08-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by spod (edited 08-08-2000).]


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    #36
    Draco
    Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    Originally posted by Void:
    You're out of college one year Karl.
    Surely that counts as being "just out" of college.

    No it doesn't. The peeps that are out since the start of the summer are just out.


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    #37
    Void
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Void


    In that case I concede.
    Your l33tness remains unchallenged.


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    #38
    Void
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Void


    You're out of college one year Karl.
    Surely that counts as being "just out" of college.


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    #39
    Draco
    Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    Originally posted by Void:
    In that case I concede.
    Your l33tness remains unchallenged.

    Yeah yeah, whatever. Go back to your Ivory Tower and look down upon us mere mortals.
    Originally posted by X_OR:

    Has anyone got anything to support this apart from their decision not to ship Visual J++ with the next edition of Visual Studio?
    As far as I can see they has been no offical announcement, just a lot of circumstatial evidence.
    Originally posted by Hobbes:

    You will reach l33tness when you realise it is not the programming language but what you can use to create job security, increase your wages and position while killing off the competition and ensuring that any chance of someone trying to follow your work is going to an early grave.
    Heh - that's what obfuscators are for.
    Originally posted by Hobbes:

    that's what the fresh out of collage people are used for.
    Nonononono - if you do that they learn something and may one day overthrow you. Better to wear down their will by making them test stuff.

    Draco


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    #40
    Excelsior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭Excelsior


    unfortunately, my 3133+n355 is only approaching toddler stage. i dont know much about these visual languages your elders are talking about besides this:
    the software i use at work is visual basic driven. it averages 7 crashes a day. that is just over 1 an hour. because of this, i ask you, what have these words in common?
    thor
    vishnu
    buddha
    visual basic
    jesus
    mohammed
    david koresh
    aum shikoryia
    tom cruise
    odin
    neptune
    rameses
    the sun
    l. ron hubbard

    It is so lonely here in my indecipherable tower of speech impedimency


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    #41
    ecksor
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭ecksor


    Originally posted by spod:
    Unfortunately, ms seem to be dropping support for java in favour of this new c# thing I haven't had a chance to look into yet..

    Has anyone got anything to support this apart from their decision not to ship Visual J++ with the next edition of Visual Studio? I mean, are they going to suddenly stop developing the MSVM and the packages for wrapping around the native objects?

    Java is a far the better language for COM development (my current hobby horse) than VB and much quicker to develop than C++ and seeing as all the leg work for using Java classes as COM objects and vice versa has already been built into the MSVM, I don't see why they would suddenly chuck it out ...

    Having said that, I can see C# quickly becoming the language of choice for COM.


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    #42
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Originally posted by Void:
    In that case I concede.
    Your l33tness remains unchallenged.

    You will reach l33tness when you realise it is not the programming language but what you can use to create job security, increase your wages and position while killing off the competition and ensuring that any chance of someone trying to follow your work is going to an early grave. biggrin.gif

    oh yea, I prefer VB... actually I prefer anything that requires the least amount of work to create what I need with the speed I need. If I could find a programming language where I could just grunt at the screen occasionally and it wrote the program for me I'd use that.... wait... that's what the fresh out of collage people are used for. biggrin.gif Can we declare these people a programming lanuguage?


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