The McCartney Murder-Who's to blame for the lack of evidence?

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

cdebru the margin of error goes from 5% to 11% with that poll.
It would seem that SF are down 1% on the last poll which was subject to a similar margin of error.

I've no doubt that the article is slanted against SF coming from the Indo.However they cant slant the figures, just the commentary on them.
That said, it doesnt bode well for a Lab/FG coalition when the gap between their support and that of the current government is widening in the wrong direction for then.

I would agree that the most dangerous aspect of this poll for SF are peoples opinions of their policy with regard to the McCartney Murder.
It's indicative of the damage its doing to SF's credibility amongst the new voters that they would want to be attracting.
I saw the Sisters on the Late Late on Friday night and they said they were convinced that someone was being protected and again mentioned the Taximan over hearing Cora Groogans account of events which when it came to actually giving a later account of what she saw was markedly different.

They're not going away either and to be honest,I say fair play to them, its a pity others werent able to find the courage to do the same in similar cases, right through the troubles, the Sisters are carrying the torch for them though and hopefully it will eventually end up with justice.

yes it does it is typical indo anti SF propaganda the main story of the poll is the fact that despite the FG/LAB pact there has been no increase in fact there has been a decrease in support for both parties
and satisfaction with both leaders is down


on the robert mccartney sisters has the taxi driver made a statement to that affect if no why not if he has have the police interviewed groogan or arrested her for withholding information or making a false statement

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

on the robert mccartney sisters has the taxi driver made a statement to that affect if no why not if he has have the police interviewed groogan or arrested her for withholding information or making a false statement

I don't know, but I'd imagine one taxi drivers word against more than one passenger would be dodgy,I have more reason to doubt Cora Groogan though than the Taxi driver simply because of the delay in her coming foward at all.

The other thing to note is, that the Sisters know who done it and nothing can be done because there was that forensic clean up and they say that someone is being protected.

I don't like any of this.

Villain

Neither do I Earthman, if Ms Groogan is lying she should be ashamed of herself and if it's proven that she is withholding information or made a false statement she should be locked up.

I really don't know whats going on here and while I don't support the use of violence, perhaps the IRA should help deliver the killers to the PSNI by using some sort of force.

This issue is nothing going to go away until these women get justice (and rightly so) but the PSNI don't seem to be in a position to deliver it, someone needs to make these guys go to the PSNI and take responsibility for their actions.

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

I don't know, but I'd imagine one taxi drivers word against more than one passenger would be dodgy,I have more reason to doubt Cora Groogan though than the Taxi driver simply because of the delay in her coming foward at all.

The other thing to note is, that the Sisters know who done it and nothing can be done because there was that forensic clean up and they say that someone is being protected.

I don't like any of this.

if the taximan can provide information that he overheard groogan impart on the phone that he could not know unless he witnessed it himself that would be more than he said she said

also there is still a witness to these events mr devine could identify at least who attacked them if not who inflicted the fatal blow/s

just had another tought as well the killing took place or partly took place in the street is there no other video evidence form street cameras other businesses

i have my doubts about a complete forensic clean up being done mr mccartney was lying dying in the street with mr devine in a bad way presumably the PSNI were callled if not from the bar from elsewhere

a few questions what time did the assualt take place
when were the psni informed
how quickly did they arrive

in other words how long did they have to clean the scene was the street cleaned etc

when did the PSNI attempt to collect forensic evidence it would appear that it was not on the night of the incident according to sean hayes

cdebru

irish1 wrote:

Neither do I Earthman, if Ms Groogan is lying she should be ashamed of herself and if it's proven that she is withholding information or made a false statement she should be locked up.

I really don't know whats going on here and while I don't support the use of violence, perhaps the IRA should help deliver the killers to the PSNI by using some sort of force.

This issue is nothing going to go away until these women get justice (and rightly so) but the PSNI don't seem to be in a position to deliver it, someone needs to make these guys go to the PSNI and take responsibility for their actions.

the IRA cannot deliver them to anybody and there is no need for them to do so the PSNI know who the people involved are
any evidence including a confession collected by the IRA is useless to the PSNI
also if they were force to a PSNI station to make a statement of admission under a threat of violence or death the statement made would be useless as it would be made under duress

lastly apart from the family of robert mccartney the next group who it would be in their interest to settle this is the republican movement
there is no benefit to the republican movement in having this hanging over them and as you say it is not going to go away

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

if the taximan can provide information that he overheard groogan impart on the phone that he could not know unless he witnessed it himself that would be more than he said she said

Not if Ms Groogan had company, it would be his word against 2 people or more so useless.

also there is still a witness to these events mr devine could identify at least who attacked them if not who inflicted the fatal blow/s

Again even though he's a victim, he's only one person against many who saw "nothing"...

i have my doubts about a complete forensic clean up being done mr mccartney was lying dying in the street with mr devine in a bad way presumably the PSNI were callled if not from the bar from elsewhere

Well they and others say there was.

when did the PSNI attempt to collect forensic evidence it would appear that it was not on the night of the incident according to sean hayes

Well they were a bit quicker about it than he or Groogan were with giving their "accounts", thus I'm skeptical of their accounts.
Theres also the little matter of how McCartney was left out on the street mortally injured.

Now while we are on the subject, given that theres no specefic thread for this,I'll split this into another thread, titled the McCartney Murder who is to blame for the lack of evidence.

Sand

Neither do I Earthman, if Ms Groogan is lying she should be ashamed of herself and if it's proven that she is withholding information or made a false statement she should be locked up.

Her statement isnt much different from any made by SF/IRA members in the pub. They were in the pub. They didnt see/hear any disturbance. They were in the toiliets or on their mobile phones. They went home. Apparently not a *single* statement admits having seen any disturbance. The three SF/IRA who surrendered to the PSNI for questioning simply gave their names and sat in silence, ignoring questions, until the time was up and they could leave. It was only a publicity stunt for SF/IRA.

Groogan is just unlucky that she was badly caught out in that she claims she left before the murder, but street cameras opposite the bar identified her taxi arriving to collect her at 11:20pm, after the murder, catching her in the lie. It seems that taxis ferried a lot of provos from the pub to provo drinking dens in Ardoyne and West Belfast after the murder.

Another interesting item is that the McCartney sisters named republicans they believed responsible for the murder to Gerry Adams, and he suspended 7 SF/IRA members in another publicity stunt. The thing is Adams suspended 7, he claimed at the behest of the sisters. The sisters are mystified because they only named 6 provos they believed responsible. What did Adams know about the 7th that the Sisters didnt know?

I really don't know whats going on here and while I don't support the use of violence, perhaps the IRA should help deliver the killers to the PSNI by using some sort of force.

I certainly agree with your first statement, though you should qualify it that, whilst you do not support violence, you support a movement that has used terrorism to achieve it's aims, does not rule out using terrorism again, and does not accept the rule of law. And in case your upset by that, youre arguing here that SF/IRA, instead of simply co-operating honestly and truthfully with the legitimate police investigation, should use illegal force themselves to do the police's job!

And SF/IRA are paralysed on the issue of sacrificing the mean to appease public opinion. Unfortunately, the killers of McCartney were *ordered* to kill him by an extremely high ranking provo who iniated the first violence by smashing a bottle over Devines head - in the proccess cutting his hand - and slashing his throat open. The SF/IRA killers are understandbly outraged that they would be made convenient scapegoats - even shot! - for following the orders of their commander. The commander who iniated the row is untouchable. He is simply too well connected and too high up to be sacrificed. And Adams and his buddies on the Army Council try to make the low rankers scapegoats whilst the commander is left alone they risk at the very least serious divisions in SF/IRA and at worst a split.

The SF/IRA tactic is simply to say nothing, continue the intimidation, threaten and/or discredit the sisters and their campaign, and hope that the story drops from the newspapers. They have absolutely no interest in seeing justice done.

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

Not if Ms Groogan had company, it would be his word against 2 people or more so useless.
.

again if he has information that he heard groogan pass on the phone and he was not in the bar how else could he have come across that info

Earthman wrote:

Again even though he's a victim, he's only one person against many who saw "nothing"...
.

yes but he is a victim that was definitely there and saw things as opposed to those who saw nothing

Earthman wrote:

Well they and others say there was.
.

i accept that there was an attempt to clean the scene however i doubt that given the people involved would have had a very limited time i doubt they could have removed all forensic evidence

Earthman wrote:

Well they were a bit quicker about it than he or Groogan were with giving their "accounts", thus I'm skeptical of their accounts.
Theres also the little matter of how McCartney was left out on the street mortally injured.
.

hang on hayes gave his name to the PSNI on the night of the incident and the next day the PSNI did not come back looking for a statement
I dont know what you are getting at here are you suggesting that everyone in the pub was fully aware that a man had been assualted and left for dead outside the pub


.[/QUOTE]

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

again if he has information that he heard groogan pass on the phone and he was not in the bar how else could he have come across that info

No use cdebru if two people in the taxi say otherwise

yes but he is a victim that was definitely there and saw things as opposed to those who saw nothing

Again not much use if more than one person discounts what he says, the other material witness being dead.The sisters have said that the police know who did it, and perhaps it is from him that they know.

i accept that there was an attempt to clean the scene however i doubt that given the people involved would have had a very limited time i doubt they could have removed all forensic evidence

You can speculate, but the IRA are good at these things.

hang on hayes gave his name to the PSNI on the night of the incident and the next day the PSNI did not come back looking for a statement
I dont know what you are getting at here are you suggesting that everyone in the pub was fully aware that a man had been assualted and left for dead outside the pub

When did Hayes get back to them? I dont know about you but If I witnessed anything,I'd have been recording a statement straight away and down to the police/ombudsman or wherever to put what I saw on the record.
Hayes account was fairly neutral to the investigation anyhow.
Forgive me if I'm reading more into this than you but my head is telling me, that this guy being an ex SF councillor is neither going to be helpfull to the PSNI or in a hurry not to say that they are useless, bearing in mind what the former SF mayor of Belfast was initially saying about the incident , something the sisters strongly criticised him for.
The sisters on the Late Late friday night said no-ones even given a statement to the ombudsman.I'm telling you that I don't accept that that is because no one saw (or heard the screams) anything.

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

No use cdebru if two people in the taxi say otherwise
Again not much use if more than one person discounts what he says, the other material witness being dead.The sisters have said that the police know who did it, and perhaps it is from him that they know..

ok lets say the taxi driver heard her say X was stabbed in the Y now if that was true the taxi driver could not know it as he was not present do you see where i am coming from

on the devine issue just because one or more people disagree with what was said does not mean it can not be used it is up to a jury to decide who is truthful that would be true of any assault



also the IRA statement says that another friend of mccartney and devine was present at the time of the attack in the street what about this unnamed guy
if he ids the same people as devine that is a different kettle of fish

Earthman wrote:

You can speculate, but the IRA are good at these things. .

ok but this was an incident that was not in a controlled area it was not planned it took place inside a bar and out on the street the PSNI would have been present within a fairly short time
my impression is that the PSNI were not to bothered about it at the time they did not seal of the pub or treat it as a crime scene that is before they would have known that it was cleaned
if they left it till the next day or later the chances are the bar staff would have cleaned away any evidence that may have been there in the normal course of their work same with the street outside any evidence would have been gone if the area was not sealed of at the time or very shortky afterwards

another question what about mccartney and devines clothes from what i have read they put up a fight and they were not the only 2 bleeding at the scene

Earthman wrote:

When did Hayes get back to them? I dont know about you but If I witnessed anything,I'd have been recording a statement straight away and down to the police/ombudsman or wherever to put what I saw on the record.
Hayes account was fairly neutral to the investigation anyhow.
Forgive me if I'm reading more into this than you but my head is telling me, that this guy being an ex SF councillor is neither going to be helpfull to the PSNI or in a hurry not to say that they are useless, bearing in mind what the former SF mayor of Belfast was initially saying about the incident , something the sisters strongly criticised him for.
The sisters on the Late Late friday night said no-ones even given a statement to the ombudsman.I'm telling you that I don't accept that that is because no one saw (or heard the screams) anything.

he spoke to them twice th enight of the incident and the next day the PSNI had not got back to him when he made that statement which was about a month or so after the incident
the PSNI would not have known what he saw or did not see untill they took his statement
has the ombudsmans office confirmed that no one has given a statement to them yet

what about the people who turned up at police stations and were turned away did the sisters comment on that ( i did not see the show)

Phil_321

cdebru wrote:

ok lets say the taxi driver heard her say X was stabbed in the Y now if that was true the taxi driver could not know it as he was not present do you see where i am coming from

The woman just gave general statements on the phone (Ie. "It was rough in there tonight"....words to that effect), she didn't go into any detail on the attack.
Tbh, The police are looking for a first hand account of the murder. Involving a taxi driver who overheard a consversation isn't going to lead anywhere cos it's just his word against hers.....and even if his word held more power, she'd keep her mouth shut during questioning on the murder anyway.

on the devine issue just because one or more people disagree with what was said does not mean it can not be used it is up to a jury to decide who is truthful that would be true of any assault

I read Devine was originally going to give an account of the attack but he's since been intimidated too, surprisingly enough.

cdebru

Phil_321 wrote:

The woman just gave general statements on the phone (Ie. "It was rough in there tonight"....words to that effect), she didn't go into any detail on the attack.
Tbh, The police are looking for a first hand account of the murder. Involving a taxi driver who overheard a consversation isn't going to lead anywhere cos it's just his word against hers.....and even if his word held more power, she'd keep her mouth shut during questioning on the murder anyway..

so she didn't really say anything of consequence on the phone like she saw a or b or c
i mean it is possible she was in one end of the bar and heard shouting roaring
glasses breaking etc and did not see who was involved

Phil_321 wrote:

I read Devine was originally going to give an account of the attack but he's since been intimidated too, surprisingly enough.

have you a link to that not doubting your word just i have not heard anything about wether he had made a statement or was refusing to

also what about the third guy mentioned in the IRA statement has he made a statement


if the murder took place in the street then it is unlikely anyone who was in the bar and stayed in the bar saw anything that would help in a conviction for murder or manslaughter
I dont know the layout of the bar but if there was a fight row in the bar that preceded the assault outside of the bar it is possible that alot of people did not see anything that they could identify what happened outside

A Dub in Glasgo

If everyone in the bar claims they saw nothing of the incident, how can the evidence of Devine be discounted by people in the bar?

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

ok lets say the taxi driver heard her say X was stabbed in the Y now if that was true the taxi driver could not know it as he was not present do you see where i am coming from

I was saying exactly that, ie his evidence would be no use in court, it just outlined Groogans duplicity,given that she initially said that she had left before the incident and was apparently caught out by the fact that her taxi was shown to have came after the incident and of course what the taximan said

on the devine issue just because one or more people disagree with what was said does not mean it can not be used it is up to a jury to decide who is truthful that would be true of any assault

It would be no use if someone/multiple people gave an alibi for who ever was involved.

also the IRA statement says that another friend of mccartney and devine was present at the time of the attack in the street what about this unnamed guy
if he ids the same people as devine that is a different kettle of fish

The IRA can say what they like to be honest

ok but this was an incident that was not in a controlled area it was not planned it took place inside a bar and out on the street the PSNI would have been present within a fairly short time
my impression is that the PSNI were not to bothered about it at the time they did not seal of the pub or treat it as a crime scene that is before they would have known that it was cleaned
if they left it till the next day or later the chances are the bar staff would have cleaned away any evidence that may have been there in the normal course of their work same with the street outside any evidence would have been gone if the area was not sealed of at the time or very shortky afterwards

I wouldn't give the killers the benefit of the doubt as to what evidence they removed, the IRA would be very good at removing it.
I'd imagine unfortunately that the PSNI would be slower than other police forces to enter a scene like that(especially when they would know who the clientelle of the bar would mainly consist of) given that the IRA orchestrated riots the following nights when they did go to search houses.
It's not made easy for them.

another question what about mccartney and devines clothes from what i have read they put up a fight and they were not the only 2 bleeding at the scene

I'm not privy to the extent of the forensic clean up,but I'd take the IRA volunteers to have been warey of leaving DNA behind them.

he spoke to them twice the night of the incident and the next day the PSNI had not got back to him when he made that statement which was about a month or so after the incident
the PSNI would not have known what he saw or did not see untill they took his statement

He gave a statement to the ombudsmans office via his solicitor, but as I say the type of statement he would have given perhaps going on what he said to the papers that he saw would have been neutral to the investigation

has the ombudsmans office confirmed that no one has given a statement to them yet

They have confirmed that 4 people gave statements,3 of them being the SF people (Hayes ,Groogan and Hargey) and one unknown person.That doesnt gell with the none that the sisters talked about on Friday night.I'm inclined to understand they were talking about witnesses who must have seen something as opposed to those that in the words of manuel "saw nothing".

what about the people who turned up at police stations and were turned away did the sisters comment on that ( i did not see the show)

No they did not, but assuming that they gave their names do we know if the police got back to them eventually? perhaps one of them was the 4th unknown person that gave a statement to the ombudsman.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If everyone in the bar claims they saw nothing of the incident, how can the evidence of Devine be discounted by people in the bar?

That wouldnt stop individuals saying if they had to, that the killers were still in the bar, or that another taxi or whatever took them away earlier.
The silence wouldnt contradict that and it would leave Devine as a one man band with no witness.
Loads of coverup options unfortunately especially when theres silence

cdebru

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If everyone in the bar claims they saw nothing of the incident, how can the evidence of Devine be discounted by people in the bar?

as far as i can see if robert mccartney was killed in the street what people saw in the pub would be of very little help to anyone

the real witnesses are the people involved in killing mcartney and devine and the third unnamed friend of devine and mccartney

presuming that the people involved are unwilling to testify against themselves then it is upto devine and friend

then as regards forensics was there blood from any of his attackers or anyone else on devines or mccartneys clothes it seems unlikely that there would not have been

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

It would be no use if someone/multiple people gave an alibi for who ever was involved.

The IRA can say what they like to be honest

that does not answer what i said the IRA statement says there was a third person present who was with mcartney and devine if he names the same people as devine then it is not one persons word against others

Earthman wrote:

I wouldn't give the killers the benefit of the doubt as to what evidence they removed, the IRA would be very good at removing it.
I'd imagine unfortunately that the PSNI would be slower than other police forces to enter a scene like that(especially when they would know who the clientelle of the bar would mainly consist of) given that the IRA orchestrated riots the following nights when they did go to search houses.
It's not made easy for them.

I'm not privy to the extent of the forensic clean up,but I'd take the IRA volunteers to have been warey of leaving DNA behind them.

see what i m saying is it is very hard not to leave DNA Evidence in an unplanned assualt or to completely clean up in a short time

Earthman wrote:

He gave a statement to the ombudsmans office via his solicitor, but as I say the type of statement he would have given perhaps going on what he said to the papers that he saw would have been neutral to the investigation
They have confirmed that 4 people gave statements,3 of them being the SF people (Hayes ,Groogan and Hargey) and one unknown person.That doesnt gell with the none that the sisters talked about on Friday night.I'm inclined to understand they were talking about witnesses who must have seen something as opposed to those that in the words of manuel "saw nothing".

that is completely different from what you said the sisters said were the sisters deliberately being misleading or would they be unaware of the statements

Earthman wrote:

No they did not, but assuming that they gave their names do we know if the police got back to them eventually? perhaps one of them was the 4th unknown person that gave a statement to the ombudsman.

perhaps but that is surmising

Earthman wrote:

That wouldnt stop individuals saying if they had to, that the killers were still in the bar, or that another taxi or whatever took them away earlier.
The silence wouldnt contradict that and it would leave Devine as a one man band with no witness.
Loads of coverup options unfortunately especially when theres silence

unless the other person mentioned in the IRA statement gives a similar account to devine that would be first hand corroboration and would carry alot of weight in court

also is there no other video evidence even if it does not catch the killing puts the people involved outside the pub for example

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

that does not answer what i said the IRA statement says there was a third person present who was with mcartney and devine if he names the same people as devine then it is not one persons word against others

How do we know this other than what the IRA said, as I say they can say anything.

see what i m saying is it is very hard not to leave DNA Evidence in an unplanned assualt or to completely clean up in a short time

You seem to be suggesting that the IRA would not be as good as I think they are,I don't concur.They are experts at cleaning up murder scenes, there would have been no stone left unturned.

that is completely different from what you said the sisters said were the sisters deliberately being misleading or would they be unaware of the statements

I thought you might say that,I'd say they knew that the statements handed in were probably of little more use than you or I cdebru handing one in based on what we read about it-in the words of manuel they "saw nothing" :rolleyes:

perhaps but that is surmising

Which is what you are doing but interestingly you're surmising from a different angle than I am...

unless the other person mentioned in the IRA statement gives a similar account to devine that would be first hand corroboration and would carry alot of weight in court

As I say the IRA can say what they like.

also is there no other video evidence even if it does not catch the killing puts the people involved outside the pub for example

I'm not privy to that but one thing I will say, if there was, it would be used and shown probably on TV.As you know McCartney didnt die of natural causes,so if there was a usefull video it would be used.

rsynnott

cdebru wrote:

unless the other person mentioned in the IRA statement gives a similar account to devine that would be first hand corroboration and would carry alot of weight in court

This is amazing logic...

cdebru

rsynnott wrote:

This is amazing logic...

what is amazing about it

the IRA statement says another friend of mccartney was present when he was attacked in the street

if that other person gives the same account as devine and identifies the same people it would obviously corroborate devines account and would carry much more weight than the testimony of devine alone

WTF is amazing about that

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

How do we know this other than what the IRA said, as I say they can say anything.

You seem to be suggesting that the IRA would not be as good as I think they are,I don't concur.They are experts at cleaning up murder scenes, there would have been no stone left unturned.

I thought you might say that,I'd say they knew that the statements handed in were probably of little more use than you or I cdebru handing one in based on what we read about it-in the words of manuel they "saw nothing" :rolleyes:
Which is what you are doing but interestingly you're surmising from a different angle than I am...

As I say the IRA can say what they like.

I'm not privy to that but one thing I will say, if there was, it would be used and shown probably on TV.As you know McCartney didnt die of natural causes,so if there was a usefull video it would be used.

so basically you dont believe there is another witness or that it is possible that the people involved in the attack left any evidence at the scene despite the fact that at least one other person was taken to hospital bleeding and they had a very limited time to clean up an unplanned killing which took place in at least two locations
or that any other CCTV could have captured the killers outside the bar

in that case I cannot see how a conviction will ever happen unless the people involved come forward and confess which they have shown no inclination to do so far

and the suggestion that the IRA could force them to confess could actually get them off even if they did confess they could allege that they confessed under duress and threat and if a trial found them not guilty under those circumstances they could not be tried again

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

so basically you dont believe there is another witness

Why should I believe the IRA?

or that it is possible that the people involved in the attack left any evidence at the scene despite the fact that at least one other person was taken to hospital bleeding and they had a very limited time to clean up an unplanned killing which took place in at least two locations

Being IRA members that it is believed are involved, they've plenty of experience on what to do.

or that any other CCTV could have captured the killers outside the bar

I dont know the location of any of the cctv cameras if there were any.I do know that McCartney didn't die from a lightning strike so if there was a camera within range whose film was kept by the PSNI or traffic corp then that would be evidence accessable by the PSNI.
Of course the Bars tape was taken by those involved, so obviously they thought that tape was going to show the part of the fracas that went on inside the bar, who was nearby that weren't in the toilet like they said they were and who dragged who outside for the murder.

in that case I cannot see how a conviction will ever happen unless the people involved come forward and confess which they have shown no inclination to do so far

Agreed, if theres a coverup and people don't come foward as material witnesses for a myriad of reasons then the perpetrators get away with it-so much for truth and justice eh?

and the suggestion that the IRA could force them to confess could actually get them off even if they did confess they could allege that they confessed under duress and threat and if a trial found them not guilty under those circumstances they could not be tried again

I believe it was Irish1 that suggested that, and yeah you're right if the defendents proved that they were forced into a confession then the case would be thrown out.That would be a non runner.

cdebru

what about the suggestion that devine does not want to make a statement because he was the one who started the row and he was the first to pull a knife


btw before anyone accuses me i am not trying to suggest that anyone deserved to be attacked or killed
this is a suggestion that i have heard that might explain devines un willingness to make a statement

I'd have to say that it wouldn't be Devine who was saying that obviously
So who was saying that...?

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

I'd have to say that it wouldn't be Devine who was saying that obviously
So who was saying that...?

I think it is based partly on jock davisons interview where he alleges he was attacked and stabbed in the bar by someone who was with robert mccartney he does not name devine but it is pretty obvious who he is talking about

davison was arrested in hospital on the morning after the killing he was treated for stab wounds to the right hand

Where was this interview? and do you have a link?

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

Where was this interview? and do you have a link?

I believe that this is the individual that the mccartneys allege has been allowed back into the IRA


http://62.253.251.16/dailyireland/home.tvt?_ticket=9NTHLXD4YGSGX40FHONDL1Q39LLDPJSGZRVFNOPDHOWDALOL6Z5FURUSJORE9NTHLF8WBHSJ7QRFOSMAAT2DALOLR58QH46X3H&_scope=DailyIreland/Content/News&id=1216&_page=&opp=1