Affordable DIY Wind Turbines- Produce your own affordable electricity

xonencentral

Hi,

Answered a couple of threads on the above subject and got a private email to start a thread and to answer questions on the subject so I will. My friend has just installed 2 micro wind turbines to run his house Lights, garden lights, TV, dvd, stereo's central heating, garden shed, garage, security lights, etc and he has completed 6 month's of research on suppliers, the technology, costs, government agencies, etc and I will relay this information and advice as he received through this forum if anybody is interested.

There are loads of pitfalls and things which people should be aware of, so ask away and I'll see what value I can bring to the discussion.

P.S. He is thrilled with the outcome he had but it took alot of work and there is no information or guidance available on this subject anywhere which needs to change and his first follow-on ESB bill was only €41 all in.

KdjaCL

Any pics of equipment needed ?

or links to it ?


kdjac

or where to get them cheaply and reliably?

zod

How much did it cost ? more info please

Webmonkey

Would be very interested in this for a Wireless Project. Please send more info

xonencentral

This can be quite comprehensive so I try and start the conversation:

My friend settled on an Irish Product which has been modelled on the commercial wind turbines but has been packed into a DIY self install system which was basically also the cheapest as it turned out, the company is Surface Power Technologies and their site is www.surfacepower.com

He has installed 2 x 500 watt microturbines and they cost him €1,400 plus VAT a piece, are fully automatic microprocessor, quiet, CE marked, and look the business.

They are off-grid systems, this is important in Ireland.

There are 2 long established dealers in ireland and a couple of manufacturers in the UK which he researched in great detail, (if you ask me a difficult question, I might be delayed in rerfering to hime, just a note). The prices for one of these systems from the Irish dealers was approx 8-12 K, yes, thousands of euros, plus VAT, plus installations and if no installation, no warranty. You also have to take them down in a storm.
The UK systems were similar in price, 7K plus VAT, etc.

Does this help so far ?

xonencentral

Meant to mention as well, that the clincher was that Surface Power were the only supplier who didn't insist on a professional recommended installer to fit the product, one quote was 18 THOUSAND EUROS plus accomodation.

"The lunatics running the asylum, no wonder there are no micro turbines"

Surface Power nearly insisted on a DIY approach "cost saving" and provided a full 2 year warranty to boot with a purchase price as low as a decent lawnmower.

Webmonkey

Very Interesting. Might get myself one of these but must raise a bit of cash first. Pity i'll only be running a few wireless acess points off it, all that energy wasted

xonencentral

Built in electromagnetic braking system "same as big windfarm systems", system safe up to 130 mph. Perfect for Ireland which was important as you have to take down wind turbines in Ireland if they don't have a braking system.

A turbine can also have a furling system which means it diverts out of the wind when it gets to quick, thats about as usefull in Ireland as an umbrella with holes in it. It generally means it dosent work over 60 mph which is not that windy.

www.surfacepower.com is the website

xonencentral

They also do finance in Ireland, not sure how much but I remember it was less than 50 euros a month.

Webmonkey

ahhhh finance, excellent but will probably require a full time job to be considered :S

stiofanD

This looks like a fascinating and affordable way of saving money, but I'm confused as to whether the generator can power more than one appliance. The website seems to indicate that the system terminates in a 3-pin socket, which is powered by the generator. I'd imagine it'd be a lot more useful if the generator could feed into all the sockets in a house.

xonencentral

Had a word with my mate, he says that the fact that it ends in a socket is health and safety issue to satisfy the DIY market. If it didn't end in a socket, you would have to get an electrician or specialist in to install the system. He himself has connected his 2 controllers into the lights and sockets supplying the Tv's, fridge, room lights, outside lights, etc.

He dosen't use ESB at all on those systems.

xonencentral

Got my surfacepower turbine last weekend, started installing Friday evening, had it completely installed by Saturday afternoon, and guess what, Storms on Saturday night and it didn't even budge, just chugged away producing electricity. Great instructions and its chugging away.

Its been so sunny and calm for the last few days but my turbine is running at about 75-80% effieciency even while we having beers beside it. I have installed it also 15 ft from my bedroom window (it was the most suitable out of the way location)and its completely silent even when belting away at full speed. I had to buy the mounting kit locally, it uses a standard 7-8 metre scafolding pole, aerial ties and clips, galvanised anchor bolts from the local Co-op store and the whole bill was only 66 euros complete.

I even plugged my drill into the control system to drill the holes. this was easy. I'll update when I get some info on what I am permanently powering with it (its still my new toy for a while yet or until the wife gives me grief) but I have already tested it with extension leads on my large TV, portable TV, several softtone CFL's (100w equivilants), phone chargers all at the same time and it powered the lot. Electrician said integration through timed contactors into my fuse board was straight forward.

The feeling of producing your own free electricity is such a rush. I can't wait to install a crap load of gardens lights as well.

So far, it has exceeded my expectations but I'll update its benefit as i get my next electricity bill. Its the best 1695 euros (plus battery and mounting) that I've ever spent and especially after the quotes for wind systems I got already (Proven 600 - 10,418 plus installation).

Important Note: A planning officer told me that any wind turbine with a blade span over 2 metres would be problematic for planning approval in domestic locations. He said my 1.4m blade span was a no-brainer.

*(&^@$ the ESB, ya boy ya, bring on the powercuts.

Webmonkey

Sweet, will get myself one of these in the future. I can't believe it can power that many applicances same time. Thats outstanding

Bill2

Any idea if this system could power a GSHP and assocoated equipment... this could mean free heating..!!

xonencentral

I would be interested to learn more about that potential, I haven't the first idea about GSHP's but I know it has something to do with refrigerant and pressure changes given temp and its a pumped circuit, but I have heard that it's cost savings are easily consumed by it's overuse, i.e. people only get more heat rather than lower bills (in practice)!

My Surface Power system has 2 x 230 Ah battery's totalling 460 ah at full charge. (that's equivilant to 5.5 KW's for 1 hour or 1.1 Kw's for 5 hours)

What power would a GHSP use, is it on all the time ?, I can do the maths on the wind energy side if some body can tell me how a GSHP works (in simple english please). how often does it switch on, how much power does it draw when it switches on, etc, etc.

shanea

Simple answer is no.

Even a 6 Kw output heat pump one of the smallest o the market, would be pulling up to 2 Kw at High temp. and would require up to 58 amps just to start the unit.

Most houses average at a 12Kw output requiring up to 100amp kick start.

underfloor heating systems could be running for up to 12 Hours.

xonencentral

What is the benefit of using GSHP if the elctricity cost is so high? Is it that you don't need heating oil?

Bill2

OK.. could wind generated power be used to heat water in a tank and heat radiators, thus cutting down the need for conventional heating to be used as much..

CJhaughey

I see that the UK/NI Vat rate is only 5% for these.
a saving of 16% over the Republic's full 21% rate of tax.
Any possibility of a grant in NI for these?

Capt'n Midnight

Bill2 wrote:

OK.. could wind generated power be used to heat water in a tank and heat radiators, thus cutting down the need for conventional heating to be used as much..

Not really - you need lots of power.
Water has the highest specific heat capacity of any common substance. 4200 J/Kg
1000watts would take 42 seconds to raise the temperature of a litre by 10 degrees. Hours to get enough for a bath. (kettles are usually 2-2.5KW)

It would probably be cheaper to invest in insulation for the house to keep in the heat generated by humans and electical appliances etc. - conservatory / greenhouse effect and black paint would be even better.

Nordic

Having posted on revious forums about heat pumps and wind turbines, since we distribute heat pumps I decided to get the best deals I could for our customers when buying with a heat pump:
2kW turbine incl 8m tower, 2kW inverter, stay cables, elec cabling, controller etc, excl batteries: Eur2,700 + VAT.

xonencentral

You can buy a 300 Watt 12 Volt emersion tank element in the states for about $30, don't forget to add duty and VAT onto the total. Still cheap.
Try the RV and Motorhome stores.

Interested to know where you can get a 2KW wind turbine solution for EUR2,700 plus VAT.

Update from SEI, In the near future we should be able to grid-tie with our ESB supply once a standard comes in here which is the equivilant standard of the UK's G8, but be warned, you must submit your turbines manufacturers CE approvals with the application form before you'll be allowed connect it. Only CE certified turbines can be sold in the EU legally.

Nordic

The manufacturer is selling them themselves in the UK at GBP2,500 + VAT (Eur3,700 + VAT). Buy from them! Not offering anymore. Thank Gandalf and Keeks for you now having to pay full price.

Grid tie:
In reality the number of houses that will have a home turbine and be producing more than they are actually using with normal winds, are few and far between.

Having monitored my own "windy site" for a number of weeks now, my average wind speed is showing as 3.2m/s and we had some stormy weather during that time too. As I look at it now it's currently fluctuating between 1.5m/s & 4.8m/s. Grid tie is pretty much irrelevant for most consumers, since even a 2kW turbine with a wind speed of 5m/s is only producing 700W. There's no magic wand - if you only have a 500W turbine you'll only be producing 1/4 accordingly - 125W or so. This 2kW turbine has an 8m tower and a 3m diamter turbine. There's no comparison between a surfacepower unit and one of these, so don't get too bogged down in thinking you'll sell to the ESB. All your turbine will do is reduce the amount you buy from them.
You're far better off taking your lighting circuits and maybe one or two light use power circuits (like an office) and supplying them through their own changeover switch and choose either ESB or wind. If the wind is low for a while, switch to ESB and let the low wind trickle charge your batteries for later.

xonencentral

I think its important to remember that whilst your are banking your wind power all day, you don't draw from it all day.

My Surfacepower unit has allowed me to draw full power (500 Watts) every evening until we go to bed since I installed it. I come home every day and the battery bank is fully charged, even on sunny calm afternoon's my turbine is silently chugging away.

So for me, I have a 500 Watt supply which is great because I have a small, silent and un-noticable wind turbine in my garden.

My local planning officer told me that they wouldn't approve a blade span over 2 metres or if the turbine was visible from the front of the property.
I satisfy both of these, thankfully.
This is really unexplored territory in Ireland. I just hope it isn't a rocky road.

The advantage I would have with grid-tieing is I could connect straight into my fuseboard and not worry about having enough power from my inverter to run high power items or switch overs, etc.

Info from Surface Power lately is that I can upgrade my current system with a grid-tie adapter and still have backup and storage. This would be the best solution for a domestic environment for me. It's an add-on available to UK/NI customers at the moment as its only legal over there.

The future is with lower energy technologies for heating, hot water, etc. we have a long way to go yet.

Just got my copy of The Local Planet, you might have heard Duncan advertising it, really puts the story together on the future of oil and renewable energy products, very up to date on technologies in development and the only one thats around today that gets a long-term mention is wind power.

With regards Capt Midnights comments on heating water, he is right, I think there are few if any low energy solutions to heating water but a viable way of heating water with wind would be to try and get a situation where you are primarally maintaining your temperature which wouldn't use a lot of power. It might take a while to get it up to temperature but once your there, you just need to keep boosting it and never let it drop.

Capt'n Midnight

xonencentral wrote:

You can buy a 300 Watt 12 Volt emersion tank element in the states for about $30, don't forget to add duty and VAT onto the total. Still cheap.

Normal imersions like in your hot water tank have about 10 times the heating power that that would have eg: 2.7KW - http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/95-0000

To heat water using wind power you would use ever trick in the book geothermal / heat pump / solar to get the water as warm as possible first before using electricity to boost it from tepid to hot.

Nordic

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Normal imersions like in your hot water tank have about 10 times the heating power that that would have eg: 2.7KW - http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/95-0000

To heat water using wind power you would use ever trick in the book geothermal / heat pump / solar to get the water as warm as possible first before using electricity to boost it from tepid to hot.

Absolutely Agree. Capt.
Use wind for low wattage items like lights unless you have a monster turbine and windy site. I just came across a print of the surface power brochure - "turbine in a box" Don't expect the same performance as a bigger turbine - it just won't happen. Maths is maths and facts are facts - and no matter how many times it's said you can't make something out of nothing.

xonencentral

Don't expect the same performance as a bigger turbine - it just won't happen.
"Isn't that just an obvious statement?" Something bigger will produce more than something smaller?"

There is nothing like the practical example:

I have my surfacepower system running my lights, tv's, chargers, central heating, etc for the last 2 weeks of my ESB bill just received and my Bill has dropped from an average of EUR138 last bill to EUR 107 this bill.

Can't wait to see my next bill when I will have had the turbine running for the full 2 months of my next bill.

The proof is in the pudding......

*The truth is more important than the facts. Frank Lloyd Wright

*Facts and truth really don't have much to do with each other. William Faulkner

Nordic

xonencentral wrote:

Don't expect the same performance as a bigger turbine - it just won't happen.
"Isn't that just an obvious statement?" Something bigger will produce more than something smaller?"

There is nothing like the practical example:

I have my surfacepower system running my lights, tv's, chargers, central heating, etc for the last 2 weeks of my ESB bill just received and my Bill has dropped from an average of EUR138 last bill to EUR 107 this bill.

Can't wait to see my next bill when I will have had the turbine running for the full 2 months of my next bill.

The proof is in the pudding......

*The truth is more important than the facts. Frank Lloyd Wright

*Facts and truth really don't have much to do with each other. William Faulkner

xonencentral
Here's the truth, the facts and the maths.

Everyone can read and understand this and make their own mind up whether it's the truth, whether it's the facts and whether it's the maths.

500w = 0.5kW x 24h = 12kWh of electricity is all your surfacepower unit could produce in 24hrs AT FULL CAPACITY (That's 12.5m/s wind speed sustained, without dropping below 12.5m/s). If you had a sustained 12.5m/s wind for a full "2 weeks" it would produce a total of 12kWh x 14 = 168kWh x 12.2c/kWh (ESB rate) = Eur20.49 worth saving of electricity. And that's allow you full rate on ESB against it - not allow a night rate meter!

Given that yours appears to have dropped your bill by Eur31 that's 150% of the absolute maximum capacity of your turbine, either you've become more concious of your use of electricity or ....something is making you promote the surfacepower unit beyond it's capability now!!???!!!

As I said maths are maths and facts are facts, and you certainly didn't have a sustained 12.5m/s over the two weeks. My anenometer has logged one peak gust at 12.2m/s over the last 3 weeks, average 3.5m/s, and I have a clear view for 25miles from my hilltop site.

xonencentral

Hi Nordic,

Again, your assumptions need adjusting.

By taking the money I took out of my wallet to pay my bill and dividing it by the number of units I received is a long way from the base rate of a unit which you are using. (If only life was so simple)

An ESB bill includes a PSO % Levy, standing charges and the dreaded VAT.

Doing simple (money I paid) divided by (units consumed) = around 18c per unit on that particular bill.

That is the REAL cost of a unit of electricity in my house.