Affordable DIY Wind Turbines- Produce your own affordable electricity

xonencentral

Yes, Oil central heating although I am going to put a solid fuel stove into my garage at some point.

Your quote for an 80 tube system for 5400, I presume you mean 80 tube panels only for 5400 ?? Let me know, I'm doing my homework on this at the moment.

Wood pellet, solid fuel (wood) only require small amounts of electricity to run.

Cuauhtemoc

The quote was from solarplus www.solarplus.ie. systemlink.ie do similar systems but i was talking to them at the ideal homes show and they seemed a bit pricier, but they needed our plans to give a proper quote so i could be wrong.
Surface power are also launching these systems soon as well so i'll be holding off until i see what prices they'll offer. They are also going to supply a wind turbine option with the system to heat the water during winter as well. So that might well be the solution i go for. See how well it works before we commit to a wood or pellet burner(The neighbours are going to love me as that'll make 3 turbines altogether)

Solarplus gave me a quote for what they thought i'd need for a 1500sq ft house with the ufh and hot water powered by the system.
They come in panels of 20 tubes. So i assume they reckoned i'd need 4 panels.
The quote included...solar digital controller, solar pump, exp.vessel , all necessary valves,sensors and probes, and full installation guide(which i'll be giving straight to my plumber i think)
No tank included but they give specs and suppliers for a suitable one, and i'd obviously need to buy the underfloor heating as well.

xonencentral

Ya, heard about the wind/emersion option, "a very interesting combination", no prices yet though, but they haven't a history of being expensive so far.

Ya, I got a price from systemlink; but I got a price of 1600 pounds sterling plus VAT and shipping for a 300 L tank, oh plus insulation, apparently, insulation has to be first rate on a solar system (total - approx 3,200 euro for a solar heating finished tank delivered). Has anyone any other prices, not of normal tanks but the proper job??, I don't like the fact that they only give you bits of the system, and you have to get other bits from somebody else. What happens if it dosent work properly, will they blame each other ??

5,400 plus tank, plus insulation plus antifreeze plus installation plus pipework plus underfloor heating system = ????. Whats the actual final cost.

Oh speaking of antifreeze:
Heard a story from one of the lads in the pub last night, somebody who he works with got a quote of Euro 14,325 for a heatpump, all equipment inc installation, so he said yes. THe day they arrived to put it in, they asked him "didn't you dig the garden for us", ching ching, Euro 1000 to the emergency JCB man, Euro 800 to fill it back in a week later, he was charged another Euro 280 for antifreeze, and as his well was still "brown", he had to pay a guy to bring in a tanker of water to fill it, the farmer wants Euros 1500. This was only pub talk but they reckoned the guy was majorly pissed, 20 grand the final cost.

I'd just be worried about this happening with a solar system especially if it comes from different people. anyone gone through this ??

Cuauhtemoc

These guys do a complete price with tank etc. Look pricier than some quotes but have to work it out. The tanks look cheaper than your quote as well, about 1000 for a 300 litre one.
Only thing i'm not sure of is the flat plate collecters. I thought the tubes were more efficient but i'll have to look into that.
http://www.solarenergyireland.com

Still have to get the ufh pipes but there's a seperate budget for that as we're getting it regardless of solar water heating. Problem is that the system on the site above reckons 20% of heating requirement for ufh. Bit of a shortfall.

turbine?

For solar hot water the solartwin system seems like a good option, as far as flat plate collectors go.
Vacumn tubes are far more efficient on overcast days but similar on clear days, when compared to flat plate systems.

xonencentral

I got a brochure comparing falt plat and vacuum tubes output at a show lately and there was a big difference between the two, personally vacuum seems like the smart way to go and I guess thats why they are a little dearer.

CJhaughey

Maybe we should start a Solar thread as well?
Well since we are OT, Solar Installers arrived today to fit the flat plate collectors, and honestly we couldn't have had worse weather, steady rain and a little wind just enough to blow it into your face.
The 3 Flatplate collectors took about 4.5 hours to fit with three guys hauling them into place.
I asked the installer about the cheaper Vacuum tubes and he basically stated that he felt that you might get 5 years out of them.
Thats not enough lifetime in my book.
I thought the idea was sustainability as well as cheap/free hotwater.

just my 2 cents worth.

turbine?

Hi CJ, what make is the flatplate system you installed?
Was the installer affiliated with the provider of the system or do you think his opinion is non-biased?
I suppose the flatplate collector is a much simpler design than any vacumn tube and in terms of longevity simpler is nearly always better.
A 5 year lifetime would mean it was neither sustainable nor cheap!!!

Mothman

This discussion between flat collectors and tubes clearly hasn't moved on since I looked into it 9 years back.

The tubes people will say that they are twice as good as flat plates and the flat plate people wil say the tubes don't last.

I've no doubt that the tubes are twice as good as bad flat plate, but the flat plates that are generally available are not bad ones.

Vacumn tubes are far more efficient on overcast days but similar on clear days, when compared to flat plate systems.

I broadly agree with this comment by turbine?

As for how long tubes last, I never heard as short as 5 years, and I don't know myself if this is an issue or not.

There was no supplier that I could find of tubes in 97 and I went to UK supplier to look into it. I've always been impressed with the technology, but the bottom line at the time with the way the currencies were, that the tubes were costing more for only half the area. It was a no brainer at the time and I got flat plate collectors installed.

The tubes vs flat plate arguement wasn't helped recently, when in discussion with a tubes supplier at a show, he categorically told me that I made a mistake by getting flat plate and that I would have been far better off getting half the area of tubes.
I also asked him, how would I know if a tube had gone off or lost its vacuum. Well he told me I wouldn't notice if one tube wasn't working as it wouldn't affect the performance. To me its clear, that if one tube out of 20 isn't working than it would be only 95% efficient, and it does affect output.

He pissed me off :mad:

Edit, put in has instead of hasn't in first line :rolleyes:

turbine?

Hi mothman, how do you find your collector?
I am still at the planning stage for my house and am thinking along the lines of solar flatplate collector and solidfuel stove (wood), this option would provide me with domestic hotwater on summer days (sunny I hope!) and on colder, overcast weather the stove will be lit to provide space heating and dhw.
Still have to work out the system precisely though and I am open to all suggestions for improvement!!

I was reading the installation guide for the vacumn tubes from navitron, its available on the website and is very comprehensive, good to read not just for their system. But anyway it says in the case of their tubes if the vacumn is broken the tube will discolour to white.

Cuauhtemoc

As regards lifespan of tubes

Following extensive research into the systems on offer, we have chosen the NEG SUNTUBES as our preferred 'performance' panel, made by the same company, NEG, that probably manufactured the vacuum tube for the screen you are looking at. The tubes carry a full FIVE year guarantee, however a life span of 25 years is reasonable to expect.

From this site. http://www.heatweb.com/solar/solar.html

And also from the thermomax website...

A solar water heating system has a lifespan of up to 25 years.

http://www.thermomax.com/Advantages_and_Costs.htm

Turbine?, you thinking of a solid wood burning stove(in a living room say) that would do your hot water/heating, or one you'd stick in a boilerhouse.
Any thoughts on a pellet burner?

turbine?

I was planning on a wood stove in the kitchen/dining room, to provide hot water for domestic use and to whatever heating system (radiator or underfloor) I install.
I thought about wood pellet but at present I think they are not for me because:
1: Initial cost is high
2: Security of supply of the wood pellets is not assured, although I know it is an up and coming fuel source.
I am going to leave the plumbing in place for one in the future though.

I think with a traditional stove, although you have the minor inconvienience of taking out ash and lighting it, the cheap(ish) and ready supply of wood is a big plus. Also I have some mountainy boggy land available and in the long term would be interested in growing some coppice on it as a source of fuel.

Cuauhtemoc

Thats me sold on the wood burner.

Moving o/t again that navitron site has 5kw diesel generators that look similar to surfacepowers. Except for the price about 800 euro on navitron. 2,500 with sp.
They may not be that similar but looking at the photo it's nearly identical.

Is there a difference i'm missing?

xonencentral

An interesting item, I came accross on a german website was that you can't have a bath/jucuzzi, etc when there is thunder and lightning as your collectors on your roof could act as a earthing rod and fry your ass in the bath. They were recomending ground installation if you have a lot of lightning.
(Nothing like a jucuzzi and a glass (bottle) of wind on a stormy night)

Never would have thought of that !

I heard lately from one of the eco swedish house suppliers that wood pellet was in sweden 20 years ago but died off ? They were saying that it is probably just a fad ? any thoughts.

turbine?

I wonder would the lightning super heat the water? you could use it to power a steam turbine!!!

I dont know much about diesel generators, the navitron prices look really good but the skeptic in me asks why or how they are so cheap? Maybe I'm wrong though 'cos over on hugh piggots page he gives the turbines a good enough review (well compared to some of the others anyway!!)

On the links page on the Navitron site there are 2 links to Irish distributors and if they have some of the equiptment in stock I would like to go and see it. Specs and photos are great but actually seeing and feeling the thing gives a better idea of quality I believe.

I heard they had the wood pellet boilers in Sweden before but I didn't know they were declining in use. Its an interesting development on the Irish scene at the moment, but I'm happier waiting to see how the market expands. Sitting on the fence, I know but I don't want to risk spnding the money and having to replace my system in 10 years.

Mothman

There was a thread on solar panels recently, perhaps in DIY section.

I'm delighted with my collectors. They usually give all my hot water needs (daily bath, showers etc) from mid-late April till well into September. They are integrated into my roof. However my pitch is too shallow at 30deg. I get too much water in Summer and don't make best use of winter sun.

A full sunny day in winter will heat 150l water from 8C to about 40C from 6sqm of panels.

In summer a sunny day can heat 300l water from 18C to 80C+.

I live near coast, where I get relatively more sunshine than inland areas. I'd be inclined to lean towards tubes in inland and flat plates near coast. Depends on price premium for tubes. Afterall the only difference are the collectors. The tank and control gear should be the same, so the price difference between the 2 systems should only be in the collectors.

I'm of the thinking now, (though I haven't put this to any solar suppliers), of increasing the area of collectors and installing them at 70deg or so, as the sun height is below 20deg in winter.

If using same heating source for water and space (ie stove), make sure that the system can heat water without contributing to space heat.
This October was mild and dull. No way was space heating required, but got very little solar heated water, so backup was needed for nearly all the hot water during the month.

xonencentral

Have a look here, these guys were recommended to friend of mine for quality generator products.

http://www.generators.co.uk/harrington/silentdiesel.php

Have to say, 880 euros minus UK VAT @ 131.06 gives you a retail of Euros 748, I have to say the skeptic in me sees this as too good to be true for a 5KW silent diesel geny. There must be catch as all low cost reputable suppliers in the UK seem to be around 2K Sterling plus VAT.

It might be that stuff down the market that you see being sold out of transits, is it not the engine and the generator make that decides a good turbine ?

air

Hi Lads,
I was given this info from a well know UK newsgroup owner.

Contact John in Sustainable Technology
(£335 +VAT for 20 tube array kit)
Not sure how this compares with your pricing.

I also had some conversations directly with an Evacuated tube supplier in China.
They sell the collectors for $13 per tube, might be feasible for a group buy or whatever.

What type of controller do you have with your system?

xonencentral

Has anyone checked out this with their insurance company,

When I put my turbine on my house insurance, they wouldn't do it until I could fax them a certificate of conformance which surface power provided to me.

They told me that if it hadn't this product standard, that if anything happened to anybody, burned my house down, damage, etc that they wouldn't cover it. Apparently, renewable energy systems must have CE marking to be legal products in Ireland, its a measure of safety and quality. My surface power system is fully compliant but it would have been a bit of a shock if I had gone another route and only found this out afterwards.

At the last show I was at, one of the german dealers for solar had stated in a presentation that solar heating systems must be certified to EN12XXX (can't remember) to be legal in the EU, I checked into this and thats where I found out about the "lightning" issue with roof mounted solar panels. I asked my insurance company about solar and they want a cert of conformance from the manufacturer again if I put in solar in or they won't cover it.

My mate "wasn't" asked for this from his insurance company but because I had wrecked his head so much with what happened with my insurance company, he checked with his insurance and they told him, that the cert of conformance would only be required in the event of his making a claim. They told him that if the product was non-compliant with CE that they wouldn't pay up as it would invalidate his policy and it would be my mates problem. (Bit sneaky I thought).

P.S. Another bit of useless information, I asked them about rainwater harvesting tank and they said that they will only insure "sealed" tanks, i.e. ones that children can't climb into to go for a swim. (makes sense I suppose).

xonencentral

At last, a glimmer of hope.

Fine Gaels pow-wow. Going to bring in grants for renewable energy if they get into power and really drive the renewable sector and bio-fuels as well.

Read the press release below:

http://www.finegael.ie/fine-gael-news.cfm/NewsID/26951/action/detail/year/2005/month/11/level/page/aid/186/

CJhaughey

Funny thing, well actually not funny but symptomatic of this govt.
Oil and Gas attract a Vat rate of 13.5 %
Solar and Renewables attract a Vat rate of 21%
This makes Ireland unique in Europe in having a reverse Carbon Tax.
Food for thought when you are next talking to your local TD.
On the topic of Solar HW I think that you get what you pay for with This technology.
Cheap is cheap and better quality is always going to be a little more expensive, I looked at it like this, hot water is essential for a normal lifestyle, I would not think of installing a cheap oil boiler as it would not be economical long term, neither to my mind would a poor quality solar system.

Cuauhtemoc

CJ, when you refer to a cheap shw system, are you talking about tubes or flat plate collecters?
Or do you have a specific manufacturer in mind.

...as regards o/t stuff i think this whole thread is important as regards off grid technology.
Xonencentral has started a thread which started with windmills but which has developed into a v important thread as regards living off grid.
Xonencentral, i hope i'll be able to continue to plague u for advice as our off grid plan continues.

Many thanks for your valuable advice so far.

C.

CJhaughey

I have seen many cheap Vacuum tubes but not as many Flat plate type.
I don't know why there is more cheap tubes but it may have something to do with the fact that tubes are more expensive to buy.
My installer reckoned that this was bad news for the whole industry, people buying a cheap system that didn't work and becoming disillusioned with the whole solar thing.
He installs for 5 or 6 solar suppliers so I would tend to believe him when he says that Chinese Vac tubes are limited lifespan.
He said the german TUV mark was a good indicator of quality
I have only the panels up at the moment with all the rest of the plumbing to be finished later as the house is completed....

Cuauhtemoc

xonencentral wrote:

At last, a glimmer of hope.

Fine Gaels pow-wow. Going to bring in grants for renewable energy if they get into power and really drive the renewable sector and bio-fuels as well.

Only got to reading that now. Sounds good.
As regards the grants, they could go further. €500 is nice but they could go further as these systems can run into many thousands. Maybe a reduction in the VAT on them, or abolish it altogether. As CJ said we're paying a reverse Carbon Tax beacuse of the higher vat on renewable energy.
Or maybe a claimable tax credit on what you buy.
Anyone any other good ideas that we could suggest to door knocking politicians?

turbine?

Net metering for renewable electricity, with an equal or more favourable price for the renewable producer.

xonencentral

I think you should save that one for when GOD knocks at your door.

turbine?

I know, there is as much chance of it being implemented as something with a very small chance!!!
Seriously though government policy as regards energy and environment is questionable, at best.
The policies they drive are geared towards huge levels of growth and are unsustainable in todays oil based context. Of course in the short term the country is getting wealthier and the policy makers continue to be reelected and make more unsustainable policies!!
Of course you can counter this by saying as more people become wealthier they can afford to spend more on environmentally sound options, and this indeed does happen. But I dont think that pinning environmentally sound options as a luxury is the correct way to progress.
I could rant on for ever about this but then I only end up questioning myself!!?
I guess a 500euro grant is a start though!!

turbine?

xenocentral, I was reading back through the older posts and you mention that you had a black boxed radiator, how did that go? It is something I am interested in trying for myself!
Also you say before you found SP you were thinking of building your own turbine, again something I am interested in trying.
I have ordered Hugh Piggotts Axial Flow Plans and his Windpower Workshop Books, still waiting for them though.
As regards the paper brickets, I read your post a while back and thought, ya its only pare no harm there, and spent a while looking through the net and some text books to see what emissions you would expect from burning paper and I couldn't find any that were for paper alone, only for paper and plastic combined in backyard burning instances, or for wholescale municipal solid waste incineration. So what I think now, notwithstanding future info as regards emissions, is that paper brickets are fine, and in some instances probably better than trying to recycle, because if the paper market is weak then paper sent for recycling is actually landfilled.
and CAT sell a bricket maker for anyone who wants to purchase one, I'm with xeno on the home made mass production system though!!

xonencentral

Ya, as is usual (and I'm learning), the secret is not in the doing but the "controlling".

Had the rads out on a few sunny days and got the impression that it would blow up my immersion tank if I installed them onto my system and then on any day without sun, pretty useless and would probably end up heating the planet. By the time I would build my own control system, I would have probably paid for a solar system.

I think that the real problem with all these things is that they all work great if you are grizzly adams and live in your log cabin and can manually intervene cause you are their all day, etc but thats not the real world, we need automation and controls.

I think this was my biggest worry with hugh piggots DIY wind was the possible destruction he mentioned and Ireland is a candidate for that, for sure. I think its easy to build something but controlling it is something beyond the DIYer and not getting any insurance cover was a worry for me, that was stress that outwayed any benefit.

I have done a number of projectcs in the past and I end up spending more that if I had gone out and bought something so when SP showed up on the radar, it was hard to compete with the pricing and expect to have anything that didn't look like a "mad thing".

Paper seems a no brainer to me, no transport CO2, processing, etc and the inks have been food friendly for years, so lets burn the damn thing as bricketts, and its carbon neutral. Recycling is definitely adding more carbon emmissions.

Takeshi_Kovacs

Also you say before you found SP you were thinking of building your own turbine, again something I am interested in trying.
I have ordered Hugh Piggotts Axial Flow Plans and his Windpower Workshop Books, still waiting for them though.

I came across this very good site (http://www.homemade-wind-turbines.co.uk/) on building your own turbine. Just something for ye to look at. I myself am very interested in building one mostly out of pure curiosity, but unfortunately i have no batteries to charge it with, so i'd probaly end up using it to boil water!!

Anyways turbine? , are you paying for those books and plans.. ? as this e-book http://www.scoraigwind.com/pmgbooklet/itpmg.pdf by Hugh Piggott seems pretty informative and is freely downloadable.... not sure if it is the same as what you are getting...



Also , Xonencentral, just wondering what you meant by possible destruction mentioned by Hugh Piggott, ? (to do with diy turbine falling apart?)..
I can see your point on having a ready made turbine from SP... it is CE marked and can be covered under house insurance, still though i like the thought of building my own...... bigger and better...:D ...

Also anyone else come across anything like this before --> http://cgi.ebay.com/Permanent-Magnet-Generator-for-Wind-or-Water-Turbine_W0QQitemZ5828974704QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
found it while searching for Nd magnets last night, is it a gimmick, or is something worth looking into..

turbine?

Hi Takeshi_Kovacs, the PMG plans are only a part of the axial flow turbine plans, the booklet has details on a self furling mechanism to turn the turbine out of high winds to protect itself, along with other information about blades etc. Windpower Workshop is a more general text with details on rewinding generators, sizing and siting. I havent got them yet so dont know for sure.

Thanks for the link to the uk site, some good pictures there.

Xenocentral, I hear what your saying about the control units. I think Grizzly Adams probably has more solar radiation up his way to! I think I will still try to make some variety of collector though, but I wont expect to much from it!

Takeshi_Kovacs

oh right i get ye... although i saw a bit on furling mechanisms on www.otherpower.com, although i'd say anyone that is looking into wind turbines, has seen that site already

turbine?

ya, the otherpower site is very entertaining, the picture of them testing the turbine on the front of the old blue pick up is brilliant:)
I have looked at loads of sites in relation to building a wind turbine and having done so I think buying the two books is the best option. they dont cost much either.

xonencentral

What is a heat pump?

A heat pump is an electrically powered unit consisting of a compressor and a pair of heat exchangers which is able to tap the natural thermal energy stored in the earth, air or water and use this to heat your home and provide hot water. They can also provide cooling systems as well as heating.

How do they work?

They work just like a fridge, but the other way round. Instead of taking heat from the fridge and putting it into the air, it takes heat from the source and puts it into another environment. They do use some electricity to pump but for each kilowatt of electricity used to run the heat pump, three or four kilowatts are produced.

Can I run my house from a heat pump?

Yes you can but your property should be extremely well insulated to get maximum benefit. If there is a lot of heat loss then this can add substantially to the cost of installation.

What are the environmental aspects of heat pumps?

Heat pumps are very environmentally friendly and if you use renewable energy from your own solar panels etc or buy it in from your electricity company, then the whole system will be run from clean and renewable sources.

My example: If a geothermal heatpump is 4 Kw unit, then it uses ESB, (Co2), so their nice recomendation above that if you were to use solar panels to run it, it would be environmentally friendly, , that would mean 8kw of solar to put away power for night time (assuming full solar power which wont happen), I priced this at approx Euro: 80,000 to buy the solar.

Am I just not getting this ?? even a wind turbine would be massive to run a heat pump, even a pruvon 10 Kw would cost about the same installed even if somebody was mad enough to give you planning for blades that big....

A guy from work told me today that his ESB bill (he has geothermal ) is approx 600 euros every month, he doesn't seem to be bothered that much, he says he would only spend it on oil otherwise ?? (sounds like a lot of oil)

I just don't get it ?, He spent 18,000 euros on a system where he justs make the cheque out to another fossil fuel supplier ??? Am I missing something ??

Keeks

xonencentral wrote:

Am I just not getting this ?? even a wind turbine would be massive to run a heat pump, even a pruvon 10 Kw would cost about the same installed even if somebody was mad enough to give you planning for blades that big....

You have to be careful when looking at heat pumps. When you see 10 kW, you might say that is a lot of energy to be using but generally heats pump suppliers reference the output heat in kW and not the energy used. This geranlly varies from 3-5 kW depending on the geothermal source for the heat pump (air, water or ground) and its starting temperature.

If your gerthermal source is at 0 deg C then it will cost you more to heat your house them if it is at 10 deg C.

And of course normal enegy efficieny rules apply. The more you heat the more enegy it will use and the more it will cost.

A lot of people get into heat pump with out researching them properly and get into trouble.

But even still 3-5 kW is still too big for a home/diy wind tubine to run.

There are a couple of threads on this subject before here in Green Issues and also in the Gardening/DIY forum. I'll see if I can dig them out. If i could search...........:rolleyes:

Takeshi_Kovacs

sorry about going off topic, but whats the deal with there being no search on this forum???.. its the only forum i ever visited with no search readily available!!

anyways , back to present matters, i think heat pumps are bit of a novelty, and as X-C said, not all quite what they seem....
why don't people just put in a solid fuel boiler/stove... is it cos people don't like taking out the ashes/ chopping the wood,? keeps you fit at least...

Keeks

the search was disabled because it was putting too much pressure on the servers. These were replaced and also at teh same time vB was updated. When boardsie was all put back together it was found that the search option was slowing down boardsie too much so it was once more disabled untill the admins find out why it is slowing it down so much. But real life jobs is preventing this from happing quickly.

Anyway I found one of the threads on Heat pumps. Click here to see it

turbine?

Takeshi kovacs, thats exactly why people dont put in solid fuel! I have a friend who thinks it is stone age to have to light a fire and take out ash!!:o

Cuauhtemoc

Has anyone else got one of these wind turbines at home, apart from xonencentral?
Just curious if they have had any planning issues.
Spoke to wicklow planning who said i'd have to refer to the Dept of Environment Windfarm guidelines. These weren't particularly useful unless i wanted to start a commercial windfarm.

xonencentral

This sounds familiar;

I went through this as well (with the plonker in the planning office who I talked to) but in fairness they didn't know and it was their first query for a small wind turbine.

When I pointed out that the smallest turbine refered to in that document was 50 metres tall and the largest was 200 metres tall (the smallest turbine was 50 metres tall not the tower), (it can be downloaded from the dept free),

#they went, oh is that not what you want,

I said no its a small one

#She said, this covers small ones.

I said, for *#@ks sake, I don't mean small wind FARM turbines, I mean small home turbine.

#She rang me back, we don't have any guidlines on that, what is it.

I said its a small turbine, home based, like a satalite dish

#She said, oh, satallite dishes are exempt if behind the house but we only have the departments guidelines to work from.

I said, AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

Anyhow, I rang my local energy agency (in the county council) and within 2 minutes they told me to just put the dam thing up and stop looking for complications from the planning office, they have enough to be doing, I told them it was a Surfacepower unit, I'm not sure if the advice was on that basis or a general statement because I was told that noise is their biggest fear with turbines (annoying neighbours, etc) and the SP unit is silent so that might have been important.

So I did and nothing, in fact council engineers called to my house twice to see if they could use it themselves in projects for the council.

So, thats my experience...never looked back

I have since found out that it is in fact exempt because its silent, white in colour and it is mounted on a single pole aerial mounting structure which is exempted development under the 2001 planning act, you can download that as well from somewhere. (its states that aerial mounting structures are exempted development to 6 metres above the roof line of the house, it also states that there is no need to notify the council planning office of exempted developments), I think its in the appendix.

turbine?

Cuauhtemoc, I don't have a wind turbine on my house, because my house is on paper only at the moment, but I asked the engineer doing the plans about putting them on for planning permission.
He told me that for solar pv or thermal you can just draw them on to a rough size and that is ok, but for a windturbine the planning office wants exact specs, height, colour, swept area and the manufacturer.
As I wasn't committing to any one manufacturer and needed to get the planning for the house in I didn't go with planning for a turbine. However I do plan to install a turbine eventually and when I do I'm hopefully going to be able to get away with no planning, like xenocentral (I think).
I will be building in a quiet rural area (Cork county) where there probably will not be complaints about a small turbine, especially when the surrounding area is covered in big 660kW to 2MW turbines!!
I know it doesnt answer your specific question, but hope it helps.

xonencentral

The following might help as well:

I live in an urban area, (not housing estate), but built up enough and my neighbour got planning for a site about 2 months ago so I know the planning officer has seen my turbine close up and no issues.

It really so descreet and quiet that you don't even notice it, you should see the ESB transformer which is close to it, now you can see that baby !

It really puts a perspective on it.

Cuauhtemoc

Thanks guys.
That helps a lot with the decisions.
Our house is sort of only on paper(you may have seen some of my threads on planning in accomodation property) Derelict cottage we're going to restore and extend...

C.

xonencentral

Just thought I'd give an update, still learning;

I am now in my third day without wind, we are in the middle of this massive high pressure H on the weather map.

No winds, not as much as a wisp of wind for the last 2 days and starting today 3rd day.

My battery bank is reporting 75% full and I am not wasting any power unnecessarily and I have enough power for a few days at least so I'll report how this works out but so far I'm happy my bank will see me through this frosty period.

Now, for the depressing bit, my friend who got me into all this has a bigger system than me but he has the electric solar panels as well and his system was full yesterday when I was over there. He reckons the sun alone over the last 3 days was enough to keep topping up his battery bank and its november going on December. I have to admit I was impressed.

Can somebody let me know how their solar water panels are working in this weather, I'd love to get a November reading from both flat panel versus vacuum tube.

CJhaughey

Sorry my system is not running yet;( I would really like to see the result of the sun too.
Xonen, I have seen wax stabilized solar cells from the states $60 + shipping for 20 pcs of 6"x3" cells, you could make a handy array for not much dough if you wanted to supplement your wind collection.

air

I made up a 50 watt panel with the 6 x 3 surplus cells.
Cost me about 70 euro altogether.
Only have it sitting on a sheet of glass atm, should really put it in a frame and put a sheet of perspex over it.
Depends how much your time is worth though. Soldering them is slow and they're very fragile.
Prices are rising on them all the time too.

CJhaughey

How many cells did you put in the array?
I was thinking about getting 40 cells and making a small array, the 40 cells should allow for breakages.
this linky is a nice how-to
http://www.jeff7.com/projects/solar/solar%20prototypes%20page%201.htm

air

I cant remember how many I used, I think I posted a pic of the completed panel somewhere on this site but since you can't search it effectively any more I cant find it.
I'll check the next time I'm home.

GG66

Great thread, although takes quite a while tocatch up on it.

I'm looking at getting 3 comparative quotes (at least) for the following but I'm struggling with the info I have to manage to find suppliers who can do it all or come up with combinations. I'm hoping you can help.


Wind + PV combination and back up diesel generator
Solar Water Heating
Wood Pellet Boiler, Wood Stove Boiler or Geo Heat Pumps

I realise there may not be suppliers who do all but even if I could get 3 suppliers to quote for Wind PV and solar water heating it would be a great start.

xonencentral

My first suggestion would be to read the thread

Where are you, contact your local energy agency, www.aiea.ie
These are in the councils although I think some county's don't have one but they should know the best.

Update on my lack of wind on day 3, I borrowed a 100 watt solar panel from my friend to plug into my system and I guesstimate that it added about 750 watt/hour to my battery bank today due to the direct sunshine all day based on my voltage this evening. I had to move it around all day but I could build a frame with some sort of adjustment. I think I am a solar PV convert. It really is excellent especially when no wind, at least you guaranteed daylight every day. This is my first real wind free period since I installed the system.