Driving me crazy

CoD

Hi i worked my way up from playing 0.25/0.50 all the way to 5/10 NL and was making alot of money. Howeve I had one bad week and du to buying a new PC & laptop and things i lost all my bankroll and had spent the back up. So back down to 0.25/0.50 I've been going up and down since Febuary!!!! I cant get anywhere. Doing ok in $25 STTs and some MTTs but the cash game is crazy.

FInally ready to flip my lid when i moved up (only had $300 i know its bad, but i was confident) to 1/2 NL took in the $200.
playing ok, slightly up. When this hand happens. Delt 56clubs in late position, so i call the bb. See a flop, 234 with 2 spades. SO atm i have the nuts.
Some guy bets $2, a few callers, i make it $6, original guy goes all in for bout $10 raise on me, one caller and i move all in. I dont want someone calling on a flush draw, just happy for someone with 2 pair/trips might call or even a lower straight.

He calls, tuns over 2 spades. and hits... how he can call that, i dont know.

Down to $100, and i've been doing good at small MTT freezeouts so i see a $50 one and i try it 2 nights ago...

its early in i'm just over my starting 2k
58 spades in the bb, no raisers, i check, flop comes 258rainbow.
i check, as do a few, one guy bets 480, pot was only about 300 max, so i just call, the turns a 10. i check, he goes for another 480, i think and move all in. He flips over A8 !!!
So i'm thinking no A on river. Its a 10, pairing the board making my 5's usless and giving him it on A kicker.

Last night, i'm up to 2,600 on the 2nd level, and get dealt QQs in bb, only a few callers so i make a 2x bb raise, one caller, flops 349, so i bet 4x bb and he moves all in. I think, put him on a bluff/steal and call
He turns over A5.
Of course a 2 on the turn gives him the straight.

So i'm bust, and i dont know if i shud put in a lil and play the annoying all ins of 0.25/0.50 again and try to build but slower, or wait till i get paid and throw in $600 and start on 1/2 or even 2/4 where i used to do so well.

it seems that on lower blinds, people come in with short stacks and just go all in on nothing ,and will call with anything, and get very lucky/ this makes them hard to read. Also when your $10 up, it doesnt seem like much to call them.

Wheras on 2/4 people know what they are doing, so dont call with stupid things (usually) and because of this easier to read.

Agh confused and annoyed, sorry about the rant. but winning $10 after 1 hours play in 0.25/0.50 doesnt seem like much compared to the $2000 i won once on one table in 2 hours

Sorry about the rant.

Hyzepher

Your experience would match that of most players. Generally patience is the key to profit. Although it is easier to play the higher limits, you need the bankroll to do it - otherwise you wont be able to stand the swings.

Low limit can be frustrating when the players call with marginal hands, however, if you are patient and go in with the best hand, you will make money in the long run.

Trying to recoup money quickly by playing higher stacks for what is the best part of your bankroll is a bad idea. Play the limit you can afford.

Hyzepher

NickyOD

CoD wrote:

Hi i worked my way up from playing 0.25/0.50 all the way to 5/10 NL and was making alot of money. Howeve I had one bad week and du to buying a new PC & laptop and things i lost all my bankroll and had spent the back up. So back down to 0.25/0.50 I've been going up and down since Febuary!!!! I cant get anywhere. Doing ok in $25 STTs and some MTTs but the cash game is crazy.

FInally ready to flip my lid when i moved up (only had $300 i know its bad, but i was confident) to 1/2 NL took in the $200.
.

If you keep putting such a large percentage of your BR on the line in those cash games you are going to lose your knickers my friend.

The only reason you could possibly drop from 5/10 NL to .25/.50 is because you are being wreckless and not using proper bankroll managemnt techniques. Am I right in saying the max buy in for 5/10 NL is $1,000? You shouldn't be playing that unless you have atleast $20K! For 1/2 NL you should have $4,000 - $5,000. and you are playing with just $300 putting 66% of you entire bankroll on the line in just one hand? Do realise how ridiculous that is?

Have a read of this and stop playing above your limits.

http://www.poker.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=360&Itemid=191

AmarilloFats

I feel your pain CoD..
how about starting at .50/1 or 1/2...
If you choose the right tables there is alot of profit to be made...
I know its frustrating losing to marginal hands..But this is where your profit comes from!!If a player never won with k2o then they would never play k2o...If you truely want a plyer to fold when you have the nuts...how about telling them what you have....then explain to them what there chances are of winning...and how if they call it is -EV!!!Then I am sure they would fold and you would not suffer any more bad beats!!!! Wouldn't this be great!!! NO.Of course tell this to my mobile fone which I smashed off the wardrobe(which also brooke) when some guy hit a runner runner on me

It is NOT easier to play at higher limits...they are better players..It IS easier to beat poor players... But I would imagine starting at the .25/50 tables after the dizzy heights of 5/10 might be frustrating....

No panic..Good luck

Iago

For me playing at the lower levels can be very rewarding..ok It's small peanuts compared to what some of you guys make on a weekly basis, but profitable all the same.

In the last week I've turned $60 into over $500, playing exclusively on .10/.20 tables, $3, $5 & $10 STTs and some of the gauranteed MTT's on VC. Had a bad run the last two days and I've dropped about $200 of that, but that's the way it goes. At least in the vast majority of cases I was outdrawn rather than outplayed so I can live with that. It is possible to make money on the micro games though, take two hands I posted the other day
Hand id : 2629267-5323
Board cards : Th Js 9h Ac 2h

Side pot 1 : $35.83
golly ....... 9c Td
DonaldDick ....... Qh Jd

golly wins $35.83 with Two Pair: 10s and 9s

Main pot : $89.89
golly ....... 9c Td
theserge ....... Ks Kc
DonaldDick ....... Qh Jd

golly wins $89.89 with Two Pair: 10s and 9s

and the very next hand

Hand id : 2629267-5327
Board cards : Js 4s 9h Jh 3d

Main pot : $51.36
Sir W ....... Kc Kd
golly ....... Ah Ac

golly wins $51.36 with Two Pair: Aces and Jacks

Nearly $180 won in two hands, both at a .10/.20 table. The key is to play one of two ways, either very conseratively and let someone else bet into the pot for you, or force players either all-in or almost all-in if they call you. Anything else will be called and possibly outdrawn at the lower levels.

In the STT's I'm playing to finish ITM, I play very conservatively because all they are really doing is feeding my BR so that I can play cash games and MTT's...top 3 is all I'm looking for. If I get an edge then I'll play for first but I only really start playing the table and cards when we get down to 4-5 players. Last night for example, we were down to 4 players in a $10 STT and I was the shortstack along with one other. I folded Ak, JJ, QQ, and AJ to big raises preflop. Once we got down to 3 players I played as I normally would and won the game (ok maybe that's not so normal for me ) There are always exceptions but this is my general rule of thumb.

I'd say I finish ITM in at least 50% of the STT's I play in...


I suppose the key message in my experiece at the mico limit cash games and low STTS is play passively, there'll always be someone who'll bet for you when they have by far the worst of it..

kencleary

NickyOD wrote:

If you keep putting such a large percentage of your BR on the line in those cash games you are going to lose your knickers my friend.

The only reason you could possibly drop from 5/10 NL to .25/.50 is because you are being wreckless and not using proper bankroll managemnt techniques. Am I right in saying the max buy in for 5/10 NL is $1,000? You shouldn't be playing that unless you have atleast $20K! For 1/2 NL you should have $4,000 - $5,000. and you are playing with just $300 putting 66% of you entire bankroll on the line in just one hand? Do realise how ridiculous that is?

Have a read of this and stop playing above your limits.

http://www.poker.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=360&Itemid=191

Look thats fine in theory Nicky but in reality there are very very few people waiting til they get 4000 together for 1/2 NL - especially on VC where the standard can be just as abysmal from 2/4 right down to .25/.50. I know i'd sooner chew my own leg off than try to work my way up to 4k at .25/.50 games. I mean making an average of 4BBs per hour means you would up your bankroll to 4k in oh 1000 hours. You'd be better off grinding in McDonalds to accumulate your 4k!

What I do generally is deposit 100 dollars or 150 on a Friday, depending on mood. Start off 2 tabling at .50/1 until im up to 400 then off to 2/4 NL. Finish up and withdraw cash on Sunday, maybe leaving in a few quid in case some mid week play takes my fancy. I know its stupid and im more likely to lose my 100 quid than withdraw anything but its quick, its fun and occasionally fantastically profitable and even if I lose everything well its only 100 quid.

I'd particularly recommend the .50/1 NL tables at VC for anyone looking to re-build a bankroll

Waylander

I operate a pretty similar system to Ken, although Ihave had a few fair sized multi wins on VC and when I have them I generally leave a bit of a bankroll to play with there.

Samba

I currently play 4 tables of 50.$1 with a 2k Bankroll with a target of $300 a day.

and I plan on doing this until I reach 20k before moving up.

With that said one day I decided to venture on to the 2/4 Omaha tables on 365. I turned 400 in to 4k over two days of play.

While doing so I caught a cheat who was using two accounts to sit at the one table (it was so blatently obvious as any time either player spoke the childish manner in which they did so was blatently obvious)

My trust in the Prima network has taken a big dent and I am thinking of taking my cash play back to ladbrokes.

Any one could quite simply go to a prima operator, do you have a previous Prima account...no and hey presto, a few PCS few connections and you can take as many seats at the one table as you like....ridiculous system.

Gave back about 1.5k and quickly left that level as my bankroll simply cannot take a couple of big hits.

It can go well for you and you can win big, but if it goes bad, you lose big.

Not worth imo until you can afford to take the hits in your stride and not chase losses back.


Patience

NickyOD

kencleary wrote:

Look thats fine in theory Nicky but in reality there are very very few people waiting til they get 4000 together for 1/2 NL - especially on VC where the standard can be just as abysmal from 2/4 right down to .25/.50. I know i'd sooner chew my own leg off than try to work my way up to 4k at .25/.50 games. I mean making an average of 4BBs per hour means you would up your bankroll to 4k in oh 1000 hours. You'd be better off grinding in McDonalds to accumulate your 4k!

What I do generally is deposit 100 dollars or 150 on a Friday, depending on mood. Start off 2 tabling at .50/1 until im up to 400 then off to 2/4 NL. Finish up and withdraw cash on Sunday, maybe leaving in a few quid in case some mid week play takes my fancy. I know its stupid and im more likely to lose my 100 quid than withdraw anything but its quick, its fun and occasionally fantastically profitable and even if I lose everything well its only 100 quid.

I'd particularly recommend the .50/1 NL tables at VC for anyone looking to re-build a bankroll

Well that's fine if all you want is a quick fix and some fun but these recommendations are for someone who wants to climb the limits, never have to re-deposit and make a the occasional large cashout. And actually if you analyse the the time that you have put in with your method over the long term it's not likely you're making more than the standard McDonalds wage either. You need money to make money. It's as simple as that and the longer you play poker the more likely you will begin to realise how realistic the BR requirements I listed are.

For the past year, I have considered myself a very decent sitngo player. For the $50 9 seater tables, I earned between $15-$20 per hour over time. But in the short to medium timeframes, you can have really good runs, and some ass reaming runs. Even on Pokerstars, where I mostly play sitngos now, I constantly have spans of 3 - 7 attempts where I do not money. But that is coupled by the occasional runs of 2 wins in a row, or 5 itm finishes in a row, and decent runs of finishing itm twice for every otm finish.

In one month though I had a very bad run of 15 4th or 5th place finishes with a single 9th place finish, all in a row. Thats $800 + juice out the window in 16 straight attempts. And everyone one of these but a couple were race or better scenarios in my favor, with some being multiple beats in a row in a single game to knock me out. It happens. **** happens. And when it rains ****, it pours ****. Now, the four games that wrapped around these 16 were two 1st place and 2 second place finishes, so over 20 games the loss was very minimal. But these runs can and do happen, even if we are playing correctly. Couple in a dumb**** move by our own selves here and there, and it can knock the breath out of you. Most of the time the devaitions are far short of the bankroll requirements listed, but there will be the (hopefully) rare times when the bad runs outlast even the larger sized bankrolls. If it doesnt happen to you, consider yourself fortunate, because it happens to the very best players.

The MTT bankroll requirements are more difficult to calculate. My online bankroll on Pokerstars is very low. I cashed out completely last Christmas and started a new year with $400 so at the moment I play $30 sitngo's and MTTs almost exclusively there, but I also have a similar a mount Full Tilt where I play mostly limit holdem and the occasional NL tournament. The aim is to get to a certain buffer zone amount where I feel I am playing at a level where I make a decent hourly rate and after making some nice profit cash back down to that buffer zone amount, thus never having to reload, Although I have never had to reload on Pokerstars by using this formula, there will no doubt come a time when I have to, as I keep this site funded very low in order to use the rest of my money to do some bonus whoring. There will come a time though when I will want to have a much more serious BR so that I can play high stakes and there is no way in hell that I can do that without using proper BR management techniques.

Backing down a level when you get on a really bad run is ok. But you dont want to underfund yourself so much that you back down after a very simple run of bad luck. For instance, you dont want to step up to $100 sng's with a total bankroll of $500, with the thought that if you drop down to $200, you'll drop down a level or 2. You are not giving yourself a fair shake at being profitable at the $100 level, because even the very best of sng players will finish out of the money 3 times in a row easily, sometimes several times a week. Now, if you had a bankroll of $3000 for the $100 sng's, and hit a bad streak where your bankroll dropped down to $1000, then you could think about dropping a level or two until you have built back up enough of a bankroll to play in the $100's. But dont start out underfunded, because you are not givng yourself a chance to be profitable.

The true measure of your profitability in these games are over time. A faeces throwing monkey pressing the mousepad has a shot a winning a poker tornament. I have a shot at winning a million dollars on a slot machine, but with all slot machines paying back less than 100%, I can never be a winning slot machine player over time, even if I am winning currently. The reverse is true of poker. If you are a winninng player over time, then you must fund yourself enough time to build the money up.

CoD

think im gonna break for a few weeks, read a few books again, and sort myself out then fire in $700-1000 and play 0.50/1 to get some confidence back then step up at 1/2, if im winning i'll try 2/4 again, and hopefully stay there to build a larger BR than before. If not, back down to 0.5/1 and i'll just play to pay for some drink when i head out.

I just got careless, i dont know if i got scared wen i withdrew my BR to buy pc/laptop and stuff coz then i knew i cudnt afford many mistakes, but i dunno. I might set a blog up when i fire in the money, and keep ya all posted. Thanks for the advice

lordofthetilt

"It's action, isn't it"

Nick the Greek