Chaos

Rothen

http://www.marauderunderground.chaosmagic.com/index.html

Here..read all of this and then the last page...i expect to see that sigil up all around dublin

Talliesin

Compulsive litter-bugs working on other planes doesn't strike me as a terribly great thing tbh.

NeilJ

We conjure up spirits and set them loose

That doesn't sound very clever. Not that I particulary believe a single word of the page. I'm sure they are performing some magicks doing what they're doing, but I somehow doubt it's effecting anyone really all that much beyond themselves.

Neil

Rothen

Here

More is explained if you click the link.

As for conjuring spirits, they tie them to the sigil so they have to stay within its prescribed boundaries...

McGinty

I can't say I agree with this, whether or not it is effective, it sounds totally irresponsible and slightly dangerous, I know for a fact that the symbol with arrows going outwards is a dangerous occult symbol, as there are no boundaries. I know a friend of a friend who had that symbol tattooed on her spine and she became possessed (whether you believe this or not, but as I do believe in it, I think it is dangerous). If one can perform magic/magick, I believe it should be carried out in a responsible manner, as those who abuse it, give those with good character a bad name.

ancathach

I just think they stumbled upon the arrow symbol on the front of a Phil Hine book. Several on his website (PDF) on actual chaos magick. Also check out the work of Spare, Peter Carol and Steve Wilson.

Chaos magick is a path, not random acts of silly vandalism, yes we should bring our symbols into the public domain, but would it kill to do a nice mystical mural? I mean as well as being vandals, these people seem to be talentless vandals.

Brian M. Walsh

ancathach

Phil Hines website

Brian

Rothen

Right so...still havent read the thread then....tell you for free, twill convince you...i was like you at first.

Nevyn

Oh I read it, and it still left me cold.
Just because you could do somthing does not mean you should.
I do understand and respect choas as a force and a tool but you need order to control choas, and same way you need choas to create and inspire or else order will suffacte life. But really random acts of choas magic is in my opion and experience never a good thing.

acri

as much as i'd love to believe in stuff like this, these guys are idiots.

Nevyn

acri wrote:

as much as i'd love to believe in stuff like this, these guys are idiots.

Care to expand on that Acri ?

acri

Thaed wrote:

Care to expand on that Acri ?

just to ensure i dont get the wrong end of the stick, do these guys truely believe that they are summoning spirits and conjuring majic etc.? perhaps idiot was too strong a word.

Nevyn

Oh just reminder for people to read the Charter

acri wrote:

just to ensure i dont get the wrong end of the stick, do these guys truely believe that they are summoning spirits and conjuring majic etc.? perhaps idiot was too strong a word.

All sorts of magic is possible, I have never meet a Pagan who believes otherwise.
But the how and why of doing such things is important and if thier only reason
is to

infect the population with the power of chaos, and watch as random magick explodes into the lives of unsuspecting citizens.

and to

pry open the eyes of a sleeping humanity to the terror and wonder of the worlds beyond.

Then thier how and thier why is pretty idiotic, and possibly dangerous.

acri

why oh why would you want to do that to people!? let them live their lives in a happy dream! ignorance is bliss. youve only got one life, why would f*ck that up for someone? i dont believe in the magic crap, but even if it were true, i think these guys are arseholes for trying to bring "chaos" upon everyone else.

Rothen

i agree....that is crap...but tapping into other peoples magic gives your magic a whole lotta hit that one person cant just tap into. I may not be doing what they are doing (chaos etc) but using that sigil to tap into all the others doing what they will with it leaves you educated to say the least...

ancathach

i had read what was written, and your last thread says it all- tapping into a focal point increases power, its an astral buildup, but my referenencing you to Hine, Spare, Carroll and so forth gives just such a traditional line with an astral presence, and which has much longer line and coherency than vandals and taggers.

I am fully aware of the background of chaos and the discordian tradition and can see its rebelious appeal, but chaos has to meet common sense at some stage and illegal tagging, grafitti, and other acts of random vandalism have to meet the real world at some stage and you have to ask why you feel compelled to link yourself to juvenilism, is it about shock value for you or is it about the magick for you, and if the latter is there a more effective way. Someone in the thread said any magick by this method would be quite accidental and having looked at their site I do feel like these people are stumbling through the spiritual undergrowth.

Brian

ancathach

McGinty wrote:

I know for a fact that the symbol with arrows going outwards is a dangerous occult symbol, as there are no boundaries. I know a friend of a friend who had that symbol tattooed on her spine and she became possessed (whether you believe this or not, but as I do believe in it, I think it is dangerous). If one can perform magic/magick, I believe it should be carried out in a responsible manner, as those who abuse it, give those with good character a bad name.

The symbol with the arrows is a chaos symbol of Peter Carrolls chaos Occult order the IOT, and has been used sucessfully and safely for several decades, and having some knowledge of chaos I can honestly say I have found this symbol to be highly effective, and not of the nature you describe.

Perhaps then another variable should be considered, for example thE individual involved and their circumstances.

Brian

Rothen

ancathach wrote:

i had read what was written and illegal tagging, grafitti, and other acts of random vandalism have to meet the real world at some stage and you have to ask why you feel compelled to link yourself to juvenilism

Ahh...but it was mentioned to use chalk, that comes off easily enough. Not vandalism then...

Nevyn

It is still defacement of property , makes no difference if it takes a damp cloth or paint strippers to remove it.

Rothen

Its implied that rain and weathering will take it off...Didnt you ever draw with chalk on the gtounf when you were an ickle 5 yr old...same thing.

Undergod

The Marauder Underground seems kinda childish. There's a difference between practicing Anarchy and just causing havoc and carrying out pranks.

I don't practice or know much about magic, but I have wo questions.

1. What is the definition of Chaos Magic? I've come across references to it, but I don't know much about it.

2. Could sigils like the one on the Marauder Underground site work on computer? Could placing an image on an email or phone message damage the device that it's opened on, or is there a way to make it do this?

ancathach

Rothen wrote:

Ahh...but it was mentioned to use chalk, that comes off easily enough. Not vandalism then...

It doesnt fore go the definition of the act of juvinile though. Rothen has clearly defined his own reason for using this symbol is the tapping into the engore of these people, but of all the group engores to tap into, many with a much more established astral presence, why this act of accidental occultism?

The question of motivations in question here and if its magick, shock value, vandalism, an under indulged juvenile period. Why bother with such a haphazard and accidental occultism when there is well thought out occultism, and real power based on the afore mentioned engore available through less spurious movements, ones which will be around long after the juvenile taggers behind this website and project are past thier "magick" phase and wearing suits in their day jobs.

Brian

ancathach

A popular deining article

Defining Chaos
by Mark Chao

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Introduction
Chaos, according to the `Oxford English Dictionary' means:
A gaping void, yawning gulf, chasm, or abyss.
The `formless void' of primordial matter, the `great deep' or 'abyss' out of which the cosmos or order of the universe was evolved.

There are a couple of additional definitions, but they are irrelevant to this discussion. When chaos is used in magic, there is no place for con- fusion or disorder.
Chaos is the creative principle behind all magic. When a magical ritual is performed, regardless of `tradition' or other variables in the elements of performance, a magical energy is created and put into motion to cause something to happen. In his book, `Sorcery as Virtual Mechanics', Stephen Mace cites a scientific precedent for this creative principle.

I quote:


"To keep it simple, let us confine our example to just two electrons, the pointlike carriers of negative charge. Let us say they are a part of the solar wind--beta particles, as it were--streaming out from the sun at thousands of miles a second. Say that these two came close enough that their negative charges interact, causing them to repel one another. How do they accomplish this change in momentum?
"According to quantum electrodynamics, they do it by exchanging a "virtual" photon. One electron spawns it, the other absorbs it, and so do they repel each other. The photon is "virtual" because it cannot be seen by an outside observer, being wholly contained in the interaction. But it is real enough, and the emission and absorbtion of virtual photons is how the electromagnetic interaction operates.

"The question which is relevant to our purpose here is where does the photon come from. It does not come out of one electron and lodge in the other, as if it were a bullet fired from one rock into another. The electrons themselves are unchanged, except for their momenta. Rather, the photon is created out of nothing by the strain of the interaction. Accord- ing to current theory, when the two electrons come close their waveforms interact, either cancelling out or reinforcing one another. Waveforms are intimately tied to characteristics like electric charge, and we could thus expect the charges on the two electrons to change. But electron charge does not vary; it is always 1.602 x (-19) coulombs. Instead the virtual photons appear out of the vacuum and act to readjust the system. The stress spawns them and by their creation is the stress resolved".


Austin Spare understood this principle in regard to magical phenomena long before scientists discovered photons or began experiments in the area of chaos science.

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Austin Osman Spare-some history
Austin Spare was born at midnight, Dec. 31st, 1886 in a London suburb called Snow Hill. His father was a London policeman, often on night duty.
Spare showed a natural talent for drawing at an early age, and in 1901- 1904 left school to serve an apprenticeship in a stained-glass works, but continued his education at Art College in Lambeth. In 1904 he won a scholarship to the Royal College of Art. In that year he also exhibited a picture in the Royal Academy for the first time.

In 1905 he published his first book, `Earth Inferno'. It was primarily meant to be a book of drawings, but included commentaries that showed some of his insight and spiritual leanings. John Singer Sargent hailed him as a genius at age 17. At an unspecified time in his adolescence, Spare was initiated into a witch cult by a sorceress named Mrs. Patterson, whom Spare referred to as his "second mother". In 1908 he held an exhibition at Bruton Gallery. In 1910 he spent a short time as a member of the Golden Dawn. Becoming disenchanted with them, he later joined Crowley's Argentium Astrum. The association did not last long. Crowley was said to have considered Spare to be a Black Magician. In 1909 Spare began creation of the `Book of Pleasure'.

In 1912 his reputation was growing rapidly in the art world. In 1913 he published the `Book of Pleasure'. It is considered to be his most important magical work, and includes detailed instructions for his system of sigili- zation and the "death postures" that he is well known for. 1914-1918 he served as an official war artist. He was posted to Egypt which had a great effect on him. In 1921, he published `Focus of Life', another book of drawings with his unique and magical commentaries. 1921-1924 Spare was at the height of his artistic success, then, in 1924 he published the `Anathema of Zos', in which he effectively excommunicated himself from his false and trendy artistic "friends" and benefactors. He returned to South London and obscurity to find the freedom to develop his philosophy, art and magic.

In 1947 Spare met Kenneth Grant and became actively involved with other well-known occultists of the period. In 1948-1956 he began work on a definitive Grimoire of the Zos Kia Cultus, which is referred to in his various writings. This is unfinished and being synthesized from Spare's papers by Kenneth Grant, who inherited all of Spare's papers. Much of this information was included in `Images and Oracles of Austin Osman Spare' by Kenneth Grant, but there are some unpublished works which Grant plans to publish after completion of his Typhonian series.

References for this section are mostly from Christopher Bray's introduction to `The Collected Works of Austin Osman Spare' and from `Excess Spare', which is a compilation by The Temple Ov Psychic Youth of photocopied articles about Spare from various sources.

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The Magic of Austin Osman Spare
Spare's art and magic were closely related. It is reputed that there are messages in his drawings about his magical philosophy. One particular picture of Mrs. Patterson has reportedly been seen to move; the eyes opening and closing. Spare is best known for his system of using sigils. Being an artist, he was very visually oriented.
The system basically consists of writing down the desire, preferably in your own magical alphabet, eliminating all repeated letters, then forming a design of the remaining single letters. The sigil must then be charged. There is a variety of specific ways to do this, but the key element is to achieve a state of "vacuity" which can be done through exhaustion, sexual release or several other methods.

This creates a `vacuum' or `void' much like the condition described in the introduction to this discussion, and it is filled with the energy of the magician. The sigil, being now charged, must be forgotten so that the sub-conscious mind may work on it without the distractons and dissipation of energy that the conscious mind is subject to. Spare recognized that magic comes from the sub-conscious mind of the magician, not some outside `spirits' or `gods'.

Christopher Bray has this to say about Spare's methods in his intro- duction to `The Collected Works of Austin Osman Spare':


"So in his art and writing, Spare is putting us in the mood; or showing by example what attitude we need to adopt to approach the `angle of depart- ure of consciousness' in order to enter the infinite. What pitch of con- sciousness we need to gain success.
"One must beware making dogma, for Spare went to great pains to exclude it as much as possible to achieve success in his magic; however a number of basic assumptions underpin chaos magic.

"Chaos is the universal potential of creative force, which is constantly engaged in trying to seep through the cracks of our personal and collective realities. It is the power of Evolution/Devolution.

"Shamanism is innate within every one of us and can be tapped if we qualify by adjusting our perception/attitude and making our being ready to accept the spontaneous. Achieving Gnosis, or hitting the `angle of departure of consciousness and time', is a knack rather than a skill."


There are other methods to utilize the same concept that Spare explains for us. Magicians since Spare have written about their own methods and expantions of his method quite frequently in occult magazines, mostly in Great Britain. Spare is certainly not the first person in history to practice this sort of magic, but he is the one who has dubbed it (appropriately), Chaos.

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