I'm Probably Preaching to the Converted Here But...

leggo

...somebody PLEASE try and justify Irish being mandatory for the Leaving Cert. I just wanna get some thoughts on this matter.

Gone West

I can just about hear a stampede of angry 2nd level students coming to rant and bitch and moan about this.

So, I'll start it off!:

Its the biggest waste of time ever, as there is nobody out there who speaks Irish but not English. You never have to use it in normal conversation. It takes up a serious amount of time in your school day. You have to learn it right from primary school. Most people arent interested in laerning irish. A lot of people are not suited to learning languages, yet they are forced to learn irish. (alternative is not do it, and therefore not be able to go to university).
Yes, it is a traditional thing, heritage and so on. But the fact of the matter is that Irish is just not worth the hassle.

Dublin's Finest

now that's a challenge....

it should be optional.

Gileadi

it was put in place when the new free state government got power in 1922 and was a popular policy among those who were influenced by the gaelic league and the revival of the irish language,enough backround...

basically theres no reason why not to learn it really,in alot of european countries they can speak 4 languages fluently and not a bother on them so why is it such a struggle for irish kids to learn something unique to the country?

if your struggling at it its simple,do pass irish. its designed so as that its really easy to pick up the 40% needed to matriculate for most collages(trinners and dcu excluded),if they did away with learning it from primary school which they wont btw as the government dont care as nobody in 1st/2nd level schools can vote apart from some 6th years so its not going to impact them in anyway shape or form but if they did you would be made to do another language in its place as in other countries and then the circle starts again

Scraggs

irish is great!
its part of our culture and its something to be proud of!! bet ya anything that 99.999% of irish people on holidays speak it so others cant understand what they're saying! Its so unique.. there arent many countries that have their own ''secret'' language to be proud of!!
admittedly the higher LC course can be quite challenging for some but i think the dept of ed are looking into changes so who knows...
anyone guess that i'm just a tad passionate about it!?! LOL

leggo

That's the thing Gileadi and Scraggs, I don't want to be FORCED to do a subject because it's good to use on holidays as a code in front of foreigners or because it's been around since the Free State. Latin has been around longer, doesn't mean it's of any use nowadays does it?

Don't get me wrong, I find it interesting and if I had the option probably WOULD do it. I do ordinary level and find it piss easy and LIKE to do it. I just find History more important in learning about what makes us Irish and see absolutely no reason for the subject to be mandatory anymore.

p~b

its the only thing that would make you wanna be english or american or another nationality

Of COURSE, it should be ****ing optional. It's a joke.

But that won't happen.

The people in charge of this country (and i don't just mean the government) are desperately fighting to retain some sort of Irish culture to make the country unique. They think that force feeding us the Irish language will do that.

Who's going to break the bad news to them? :rolleyes:

Dublinstiofán

I dont think it should be an optional subject at all.There are very few speaking it at the moment anyway only for the good owl west of Ireland it would be gone all together. The only reason were speaking English is because of the damn english in the first place. We were sorted at home here with our own language until they invaded, murdered pillaged and plundered ya know how the story goes. Its the only ****in thing we have left of our own and im tired of students sayin they dont want it.Cop on will yous? its a novely! How many other countries around the world can say that they speak the most spoken language in the world (english) but also have their own language to speak amongst themselves. It sucks that so many are takin it for granted ya have to do it anyway so why not enjoy it?
Shure its the handiest thing ever when your on holidays and there is some nosy person listenin into your conversation. Flick into Irish mode and your sorted. Even if your just sayin your name and address to each other ya will prove that ya know theyre listenin and they will either **** off or get pissed off listenin to what they cant understand .....mission accomplished!

Dublin's Finest

I'm all for Irish, not that I'm too good with it though. I actually think making it optional would do it a great deal of good. Put the emphasis on the oral tradition too, that way more people might become competent in Irish.

Dublinstiofán

One more thing most people dont realise 'Ni teanga ofigiúil i seo' i.e. its not a recognised official language and i think its the only one in Europe. Intead of bitchin about havin to learn it (and gettin nowhere i might add) students should be out tryin to get it recognised because that is a joke. There have been protests before but theres strength in numbers and thats the major problem. Not enought people feel strongly enought about this subject to do anything about it. Fair enough if ya dont care go ahead speakin your 'foreign language' because english shure as hell isnt ours!

Scraggs

Dublinstiof&#225 wrote: »

I dont think it should be an optional subject at all.There are very few speaking it at the moment anyway only for the good owl west of Ireland it would be gone all together. The only reason were speaking English is because of the damn english in the first place. We were sorted at home here with our own language until they invaded, murdered pillaged and plundered ya know how the story goes. Its the only ****in thing we have left of our own and im tired of students sayin they dont want it.Cop on will yous? its a novely! How many other countries around the work can say that they speak the most spoken language in the world (english) but also have their own language to speak amongst themselves. It sucks that so many are takin it for granted ya have to do it anyway so why not enjoy it?
Shure its the handiest thing ever when your on holidays and there is some nosy person listenin into your conversation. Flick into Irish mode and your sorted. Even if your just sayin your name and address to each other ya will prove that ya know theyre listenin and they will either **** off or get pissed off listenin to what they cant understand .....mission accomplished!

Well said...an-mhaith ar fad!

Camogie Playa

if it wasn't so learning orientated, learning off poems and stories that are pointless.What we do at school isnt studying irish, just simply learning it, we should be learning about the history and background of irish and irish history, about your local areas and all that, basically it should be a subject called history of irish and ireland. like the stair na gaeilge is the only interesting thing on the course. go on criticise me its an outrageous idea but it would appeal to me and some of my friends.

Le Rack

I Hate Irish It Should Burn In Hell And Be Optional For The Leaving Cert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dublinstiofán

Come on im dyin for a good arguement somebody challenge me

Scraggs

Le Rack wrote:

I Hate Irish It Should Burn In Hell And Be Optional For The Leaving Cert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

waaaay harsh dude!!!!

Dublinstiofán

Le Rack wrote:

I Hate Irish It Should Burn In Hell And Be Optional For The Leaving Cert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus your a leavin cert arnt ya? Thats a ****in stupid thing to say! Im delighted to know that ya prob have no choice in the matter anyway. If ya hate it so much why dont ya do pass or if your already doin pass foundation.Or just do some work and improve your irish. Your gonna look like the thick at the end of the day (if ya dont) anyway when either your brother or sister or your kids when your older ask ya a stupid ****in basic word like what does 'dorais' mean? and ya look stupid cause ya cant anwser them

upmeath

we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

Scraggs

upmeath wrote:

we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness..............................................................................................codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

at the risk of sounding like some weird peppy cheerleadeer for gaeilge.... well said upmeath! i'm aware i'm not adding anything valid at the moment but dont worry i'll shock ye all yet lol

Simi

we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

YES!!! You just don't seem to get it...It's completely ****ing useless. It wastes time and energy which we could be spending on other subjects or on learning another language we can actually use. And i'm sick to ****ing death of this heritage ****e. I don't speak Irish, my parents don't speak Irish and only 1 of my 4 grandparents can still speak Irish.

Kevo

Simi wrote:

YES!!! You just don't seem to get it...It's completely ****ing useless. It wastes time and energy which we could be spending on other subjects or on learning another language we can actually use. And i'm sick to ****ing death of this heritage ****e. I don't speak Irish, my parents don't speak Irish and only 1 of my 4 grandparents can still speak Irish.

Exactly, i cant stand it when people try to defend Irish being mandatory. Especially when they say "you can just move to ordinary level its easy". Why do that when I could be doing a different less dead langauge at higher level.



QUOTE=upmeath]we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?[/QUOTE]

Not everyone is good at languages. Im only good at mathematical/memory based subjects. Same applies for most of the people in my class. So its not just laziness!!!!!

What do you mean its because its who we are!!!! When I finish my leaving cert I will never speak Irish again and im sure the same goes for most people. Its nothing to do with who we are anymore. The langauge is dead.

randomfella

people have lost a sense of culture nowadays. If irish was optional nobody would do it. people who don't like irish aren't good at languages or else don't give it the same effort because they won't use it in the future. Official language or not, the revival of the language is getting people to speak it not getting it some special status bull****.

Cool_CM

reason to learn irish= PAISEAN FAISEAN !!!!(what a show)
I'm all for irish, just not in the way its forced upon senior cycle students faoi lathair. I see no point whatsoever in learning about stair na gaeilge, lets face it, you can keep on repeating arguments about our aincient heritage till your blue in the face, but no 6th year actually gives a toss about stair, the only reason it's learned is because it's 30 marks that you can't afford to lose, is there any practical reason for learning it? no. is anybody ever going to hold a gun to your head and threaten to pull the trigger unless you can tell him/her about an ruraiocht? probably not. it would be more interesting and worthwhile to actually learn bout irish films+tv and things we can associate with
eg. a question on hector(granted he can't speak irish, but at least he tries and has probably done more to promote the language than peig) or paisean faisean would go down just great. otherwise i have no problems with it.

Le Rack

I'll have you know I did honours for JC and got an A and am still at honours. I never said I could't handle it I just said I didn't like it and I hate the teacher and I'm not going to let some soul sucking old bat get in the way of me getting my points and getting into the profession I want to be in!! so tá mé ar mhuin na muice!!!!!

Le Rack

I love English its so bloody easy! I'm doing higher in all subjects for my leaving and its fine I just dont like Irish

Le Rack

Exactly when are we ever going to use Irish in the real world upmeath!!??

Le Rack

Kevo wrote:

Exactly, i cant stand it when people try to defend Irish being mandatory. Especially when they say "you can just move to ordinary level its easy". Why do that when I could be doing a different less dead langauge at higher level.



QUOTE=upmeath]we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

Not everyone is good at languages. Im only good at mathematical/memory based subjects. Same applies for most of the people in my class. So its not just laziness!!!!!

What do you mean its because its who we are!!!! When I finish my leaving cert I will never speak Irish again and im sure the same goes for most people. Its nothing to do with who we are anymore. The langauge is dead.[/QUOTE]
Yes!!

rainbow kirby

Quadruple post?! :eek: Use the edit button!
Anyways... speaking as one who's a few years out of having to do Irish (and quite proud of her ordinary level A2), my opinion is that Irish should be compulsory to Junior Cert (get a broad foundation), but an option at Leaving Cert. The teaching of the language needs to be radically overhauled though. It should be taught in a similar way to the continental languages, that is with a much greater emphasis on communication. The current course does nothing to promote Irish as a living language. Literature could be introduced for honours, but more emphasis should be placed on speaking, writing and reading. Another reason why it should be an option at LC is that most students know by the age of 15/16 whether they have an aptitude for languages or not. I knew early on that I was mathematically minded, and it always annoyed me that I had to do English, Irish and French in school when I could have been doing something more relevant (which would take me onto my rant about Computer Science being introduced as a Leaving Cert subject, but that's waaaaay off-topic here).

Lantis

I'm in full agreement that Irish is important, but the current LC course is a joke. Something needs to change, either by rehauling the course or making it optional.
Look at it this way, if it was being taught as a living language, why are we just studying poetry and literature? That really gives off the impression that it's an old dead language, and only alive in the stories and poetry.
I'd say about 60-70% of people who enjoy Irish and learning it get completely put off by the course for the LC. I mean, come on now, this is a language most people don't get real exposure to except in class time, and they're expected to be as fluent as in English for the exam? And it requires twice as much coursework to cover, not even counting the fact that it's all in Irish?
Really, the Department of Education needs to get a grip, because all they're doing is making people resent/hate the language.

randomfella

did anybody hear that report, don't quote me on this but around 5200 hours are spent by students learning irish - junior infants to sixth year, and some peole haven't even got a basic grasp of the language and feel nervous talking in irish etc..

^^^^^^^^^
This is a complete sham.

Camogie Playa

Not saying that Irish isnt important, it is part of our heritage that nearly got destroyed.but the teaching of it is brutal, they are teaching it the way it was taught way back 70 or 80 years when they were trying to keep irish alive and to try and get people to have some fluency in it.Agree totally the teaching of it should be changed radically.it should concentrate more on speaking it!and not learning about crappy poems and storys that are of no relevance whatsover.
Thought Hector was fluent at Irish? Paisean Faisean is the bomb!i watch it religously every Monday night.