Rover on the brink of collapse - car production stopped

Bluehair

lomb wrote:

from the consumers point of view it may be an oportunity of sorts....
u can buy a 1 year old rover 75 with full leather and climate for 8500 stg in the uk, and this for a car thats 18000 new. crazy depreciation for a lovely car thats basically a bmw under it all. how about 10grand stg for an auto version with all the bits.

Must admit the thought crossed my mind too. The 75 is a fantastic car imho, esp the auto, lovely for long trips.

lomb wrote:

revenue value it at 27grand so vrt would be 7grand.

But thats the bit that pisses me off

bazz26

But even a used 75 diesel can be bought for half silly money after 2 or 3 years. Is the diesel 75 any good? I know it is a 2.0 common rail unit but who builds the engine for them?

secret_squirrel

isnt it their own engine that they also used in the Freelander?

bazz26

Oh well. I was hoping it was BMW sourced. I don't think I would fancy their inhouse engines.

mike65

Its the BMW engine from the 3 series as far as I know.

Mike.

lomb

mike65 wrote:

Its the BMW engine from the 3 series as far as I know.

Mike.

what about their petrol motors?

bazz26

To my knowledge the 4 cylinder are their own K-Series units, not sure about the 6 cylinder and the V8 lump is sourced from the Ford Mustang rather than the old V8 Land Rover unit.

Robbo

bazz26 wrote:

To my knowledge the 4 cylinder are their own K-Series units, not sure about the 6 cylinder and the V8 lump is sourced from the Ford Mustang rather than the old V8 Land Rover unit.

The six cylinder is their own KV6, which in an over simple way is 3/4 of a K Series each side.

MercMad

Honda learned a lot of things from Rover too.

..........what for example ?

I doubt Rover taught the JAps anything except how NOT to run a car company !

I do feel sorry for all those folk now unemployed, I mean 6,000 redundancies, excluding the supplier chain, leaves a lot of worried families out there !

Still the fact remains that Rovers have been sh1t cars for the last 35 years !

I'm not a Honda fan and didn't think much of the HondaRover's either, I mean why would you buy a car that has basically had all the legendary Japanes reliability and resale value taken out of it ??? It begars belief !!

The MG F was good to drive but poxy to work on and that K Series engine they designed i house had so many reliability issues that I think they gave up trying to fix it. The various restyles of this model only made it look worse !

The 75 seems like a nice car because its plush and has a smooth V6 engine, the only 2.0 litre out there with 6 cylinders bar the IS200 ! But it still felt dowdy !

from the consumers point of view it may be an oportunity of sorts....
u can buy a 1 year old rover 75 with full leather and climate for 8500 stg in the uk, and this for a car thats 18000 new. crazy depreciation for a lovely car thats basically a bmw under it all. how about 10grand stg for an auto version with all the bits.

........"a BMW under it all ".....really ? I dont think anyone else believes that ! What bits are BMW ??



Dont even get me started on the 200/400 crap !

The MG tarted up cars weree dreadful IMO but this is one area where someone at Rover understood what the market wanted and gave it to them ! The factory tarted up cars and sold them with what could be considered a prestige performance badge to compete with all the heads buying 2 year old Civics and buying wheels and spoilers themselves !

Still its all jaded now and time to close the book !

Thing is that a lot of those 6,000 people may find jobs with other manufacturers so we can all look forward to those quality control issues from all the other UK car plants !!

mike65

Mike.

Alfasudcrazy

I do feel for all those people who have recently bought new Rovers and MG's - but I wonder how the situation had not come to light well before the collapse - that way at least people would not be stuck with new - probably worthless cars

jozi

So should i buy a rover/mg or not now its over for them?

secret_squirrel

You might get a bargain if you understand the risks - I presume the area of the manufacturer warantee is going to be the most risky.

Its not like all the aftermarket and oem parts suppliers are suddenly going to stop making their stuff for Rovers (unless they go bust as a result of Rover going bust)

lomb

secret_squirrel wrote:

You might get a bargain if you understand the risks - I presume the area of the manufacturer warantee is going to be the most risky.

Its not like all the aftermarket and oem parts suppliers are suddenly going to stop making their stuff for Rovers (unless they go bust as a result of Rover going bust)

parts supply is run by x part, a division of caterpiller, and so parts supply is safe, also the chinese will be making 45, ans 75 models shortly as they bought the rights b4 christmas to the designs for 50 million stg. so parts supply is 100% safe.
get a bargain in the uk on the 75, 10 grand for a fully loaded 2004 conniseur 75 with auto, digital climate control, full electric pack and if u want it leather for 11 grand stg, vrt at 7 grand euro and u are laughing, the rest of their models are old tarted up cars tbh.

unkel

Parts supply is very profitable so no worries there

secret_squirrel wrote:

I presume the area of the manufacturer warantee is going to be the most risky

All manufacturer's warrantees have been dropped. No Rover is under warrantee any more...

lomb

unkel wrote:

Parts supply is very profitable so no worries there



All manufacturer's warrantees have been dropped. No Rover is under warrantee any more...

dealer purchased cars are warranted by the dealer, as ur contract is with the seller not rover. rover merely reimbursed dealers. as long as your dealer is solvent then ur warrranty is valid.

bazz26

I don't think so from what I have read in the last couple of days. Former Rover/MG dealers will still be able to carry out servicing, etc but warranty issues are with the manufacturer not the dealer.

When you buy a new car from a dealer you don't have to get them to carry out warranty work. Any dealer of the same manufacturer in the country can carry out the work once it is a warranty issue. Have a read of the small print on any warranty or guarantee.

For example, I had a faulty electric window relay replaced a couple of years ago when I was on holidays up the country. The window was stuch half way down so I could not wait until I got home. I brought it the nearest dealer (where I obviously didn't buy the car) and they carried out the work.

A new car warranty is between the customer and the manufacturer. The dealer carries out the work which is payed by the manufacturer.

There is a difference between a manufacturer's warranty and a dealer's warranty.

In MG Rover's case they have been declared bankrupt so I would presume normal bankruptcy laws apply. So I would think their warranty is as worthless as their cars now.

unkel

as bazz26 said, unfortunately

lomb

bazz26 wrote:

I don't think so from what I have read in the last couple of days. Former Rover/MG dealers will still be able to carry out servicing, etc but warranty issues are with the manufacturer not the dealer.

When you buy a new car from a dealer you don't have to get them to carry out warranty work. Any dealer of the same manufacturer in the country can carry out the work once it is a warranty issue. Have a read of the small print on any warranty or guarantee.

For example, I had a faulty electric window relay replaced a couple of years ago when I was on holidays up the country. The window was stuch half way down so I could not wait until I got home. I brought it the nearest dealer (where I obviously didn't buy the car) and they carried out the work.

A new car warranty is between the customer and the manufacturer. The dealer carries out the work which is payed by the manufacturer.

There is a difference between a manufacturer's warranty and a dealer's warranty.

In MG Rover's case they have been declared bankrupt so I would presume normal bankruptcy laws apply. So I would think their warranty is as worthless as their cars now.

The manufacturers warranties are worthless, that is correct. however the dealer still warrants them under the sale of goods act for 12 months. this is the original dealer the car was purchased from and not any other rover dealer. so a basic warranty is still there unless the dealer goes insolvent.

i dont know where u are getting ur info from bazz or unkel but
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=214696

and

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=214688

unkel

I'd expect most dealers, especially those that only do Rover, will go down too, leaving owners completely in the dark

Dealers are already owed £25 million in warranty back payments by MG Rover..... the Retail Motor Industry Federation (RMI) has warned that many could go out of business

lomb

unkel wrote:

I'd expect most dealers, especially those that only do Rover, will go down too, leaving owners completely in the dark

that is true no doubt about it.

bazz26

lomb wrote:

The manufacturers warranties are worthless, that is correct. however the dealer still warrants them under the sale of goods act for 12 months. this is the original dealer the car was purchased from and not any other rover dealer. so a basic warranty is still there unless the dealer goes insolvent.

i dont know where u are getting ur info from bazz or unkel but
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=214696

and

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=214688

Yes Lomb the dealer's warranty is still valid just not the manufacturer's.

IrishRover

MercMad wrote:

Honda learned a lot of things from Rover too.

..........what for example ?

Sorry for the very long response time.
I've had to spend a little while in mourning and letting the dust settle.

The short answer to your question is, believe it or not, build quality and the best part of a century of engineering experience.
The Honda Concerto and Rover 200/400 ('89 to '95) were both the same car (the R8 project). The R8 was for the most part a Rover designed car.

mike65

I see they're guaranteing parts until 2010...

Mike.

secret_squirrel

IrishRover wrote:

build quality

Absolute rubbish. Rover learnt this from Honda not the other way around.
One of my best friends worked in Rover's quality department at the time of the R8 project - honda's quality standards were so high that they had trouble meeting them - indeed many of the parts rejected by honda ended up on rover's.

The MGF was so poor qualitywise on launch - they had a section of Cowley dedicated fixing them.

IrishRover

What parts did Honda reject that ended up on Rovers? You make it sound like they were beggars waiting for Honda's castoffs.

Read this and see if you agree or disagree: http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?r8storyf.htm

"Honda deferred to Austin Rover’s expertise in interior packaging, seats, cabin styling, but most significantly British engineers led the suspension tuning, if not the complete design."

Honda engineering project leader, Kenzo Suzuki : “The British side was deeply involved in the concept and design stage, and subsequently had up to 20 or 30 engineers at a time working with Honda in Japan.”

secret_squirrel

IrishRover wrote:

What parts did Honda reject that ended up on Rovers? You make it sound like they were beggars waiting for Honda's castoffs.

Read this and see if you agree or disagree: http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?r8storyf.htm

"Honda deferred to Austin Rover’s expertise in interior packaging, seats, cabin styling, but most significantly British engineers led the suspension tuning, if not the complete design."

Honda engineering project leader, Kenzo Suzuki : “The British side was deeply involved in the concept and design stage, and subsequently had up to 20 or 30 engineers at a time working with Honda in Japan.”

I dont really disagree with any of that - I dont know enough - however none of your quotes has anything to do with build quality!!

And yes Rover did end up with Honda's cast offs even though Honda didnt know about it. Rover had the contract to produce panels for all their shared models built in Swindon - however since they had lower quality standards they could take panels for Rover that Honda would not accept. It was as much a result of financial needs and pragmatism than anything else - as every scrapped/reworked panel would cost Rover money.

Honda also had huge fines built into the contract if anything supplied by Rover shut down their production line. (Which happened a few times!!)

bazz26

Well going back a good couple of years ago, I was working for a company and was given a then 1994 Honda Accord as a company car. Around the same time my boss was given the car of this choice, a nice top of the range Rover 600. Both cars were almost identical except for styling but shared many parts. The Rover spent alot of time in the garage with head gasket and gear box problems even though it spent most of it's day parked outside the office. (There was always a puddle of oil in his parking space.) The Honda spent alot of time on the road and never let me down.

It always puzzled me how the Rover could be so troublesome when it shared so much in common with the Honda.

IrishRover

Secret Squirrel, I don't know about these deficient panels. I wonder if that was to do with the 200 MK3 / 400 MK2 / '96 Civic?
It's never something I've heard anyone mention before. I'm not saying it's not true - I don't know about everything that happened. Who was your mate or who did he know that worked there? Was it Swindon or Longbridge that he worked at? What line did he work on?

Certainly the bodywork and paintwork on any of my Rovers has been something that has always impressed me a lot. Have a look at the pics here: http://members.boards.ie/irishrover/ of a 214SLi that I used to own. The bodywork on that was near perfect. No rust, no blistering or bubbling of paint, never had a respray or anything - and that was on a 12 year old car!

Bazz, what you say puzzles me too. As you say, the Rover 600 was the sister car of the Accord. The Rover 618, 620 and 623 were all powered by Honda engines. In fact, only the rather more rare 620ti had a Rover engine - the 2 litre T16 turbo, so chances are it was a Honda engine.