€2000 burning a hole in my pocket...

Gandalf23

Hi all,

I'm in the market for a new laptop, and I have about €2000 to spend.

However, I was also thinking of waiting for a few months... for Longhorn even.

I would appreciate advice on this... wait or buy now, and if I buy now what makes, models, places to buy, etc.

Thanks..

Bard

Save another grand or so and buy a Toshiba Qosmio.

lomb

best buy a celeron dell check the bargain alerts, all urs for 520 big ones, save ur 1480 for an upgradeable desktop

Bard

Why would he 'best' buy a Celeron when he has 2 grand to spend?

Settle for nothing less than a Centrino!

lomb

Bard wrote:

Why would he 'best' buy a Celeron when he has 2 grand to spend?

Settle for nothing less than a Centrino!

because he would be pouring his money down a pan thats why. 99% of people dont need a high end portable machine. its just mine is biggerthan yours thats all. any laptop bought today will be worth zilch in 3 years,thats how its going.

beller b

If your looking for longhorn it could be a while! If it was me I'd get another few hundred, get a plasma screen & start saving again, you'll easy get 2 grand before Longhorn appears

smemon

you cant just keep having the attitude 'ah sure it'll be out of date in a few years, why bother spending big?'

if you have the money, want the laptop, go for it. forget about the future, you want what's hot NOW.

i myself have been hunting for months and was a few clicks away from buying a ferrari3400 . atm im holding out for a newer version (3600) with a bit of future proof in it (amd's new turion processor)

have been looking around shops for ages and laughing at prices, you'll find nearly everything cheaper on the net. dam ireland's inflated laptop prices.

Gandalf23

Thanks for the advice guys... good stuff!!! However I might just be in the 1% of people who would actually use a high end portable.

I agree that it has to be centrino all the way... and dothan all the way too for that matter!!!

I have been thinking Sony, ASUS, or IBM... the Toshiba sounds good, but I wouldnt really use all the multimedia stuff... might be wasted on me.

I currently have a ThinkPad T20 (PIII, 128mb RAM, 6GB hard drive)... fantastic machine but getting old now (and might not like it if I tried to put in a Linux dual boot).

I have also been thinking komplett.ie or elara.ie to buy from.

I am doing a thesis on "Open Source Software adoption by Irish Organisations" in UCD, and ideally I would like to have a wireless powerhorse of a machine, light enough to carry around, with the ability to have a few Linux OS distros to boot from.

Infini

http://vaio.sony-europe.com/PageView.do?site=ite_en_GB&page=ProductTechnicalFeatures&section=Products_ITE&productmodel=%2FComputing%2FVAIO+Notebooks%2FVN+FS+Series%2FVGN-FS115Z&productcategory=%2FComputing%2FVAIO+Notebooks%2FVN+FS+Series&productsku=VGNFS115Z.CEK

This would probably be a good buy. About E1849 in town but with a 1.7 centrino and 100GB HD I find that good value. Besides the sony lappys are pretty good.

Gandalf23

Infini wrote:

http://vaio.sony-europe.com/PageView.do?site=ite_en_GB&page=ProductTechnicalFeatures&section=Products_ITE&productmodel=%2FComputing%2FVAIO+Notebooks%2FVN+FS+Series%2FVGN-FS115Z&productcategory=%2FComputing%2FVAIO+Notebooks%2FVN+FS+Series&productsku=VGNFS115Z.CEK

This would probably be a good buy. About E1849 in town but with a 1.7 centrino and 100GB HD I find that good value. Besides the sony lappys are pretty good.

I think I might prefer this...
http://vaio.sony-europe.com/ShowProduct.do?site=ite_en_GB&category=VN+S+Series&product=VGN-S3VP

Or even this...
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/products/mobile/notebooks/lifebook_p.html

Or these from ASUS...
http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=5&l2=25&l3=0&model=413&modelmenu=1
http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=5&l2=26&l3=0&model=412&modelmenu=1
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1154

What do you think Infini?

(Might be lucky for under €2000 tho... makes me sick when I look here http://www.notebooksbilliger.de/)

dubdvd

if i was you i'd only go for the one's based on the the 915 chipset with ddr2 and that way you will get fairly decent graphics as well this one here that you picked out is nice http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=5&l2=25&l3=0&model=413&modelmenu=1 i wont bother with any of the older model without the pci-express chipset ....that and 1 gig of ddr2 so-dimm and at least you willl be futureproof for a while at least ...and then when longhorn does comes out which maybe 2 years down the road ...just do a software upgrade.and try get a removable graphics card at least then you can up grade further down the road...

Villain

Splash a bit more and get an IBM T42, I'm using one right now with a 1.7ghz Centrino & 1 gig ram, fantastic machine with Bluetooth and wireless.

Good selection here

jesus_thats_gre

Get the Dell i9300 or XPS2 if you can go to 2,300.. There is no laptops that offer anywhere near the same performance. Alienware machines that cost 500 more do not come close to the 6800 (Ultra in the XP2) GPU that is in them.

http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20050224/index.html






Also, just because the laptop supports PCI-Express does not gaurantee that you can upgrade the graphics card at a later date!!

dubdvd

[QUOTE= Also, just because the laptop supports PCI-Express does not gaurantee that you can upgrade the graphics card at a later date!![/QUOTE]


thats not what i meant ..i meant that as least there is laptops out there that have removable "changeable" gpu's and at the moment they mainly seem to be pci-e laptops ,and of course it would be down to which model and make that he picked to know if they have such a card installed ....i didnt mean to give the impression that all pci-e laptops have upgradable gpu's ..sorry if it sounded like that

Gandalf23

OK, so is the BEST €2000 laptop on this list or is there better?

IBM T42
http://www.pc.ibm.com/europe/thinkpad/why/en/tseries.html?ie#chart

Sony VAIO
http://vaio.sony-europe.com/PageVie...u=VGNFS115Z.CEK
http://vaio.sony-europe.com/ShowPro...roduct=VGN-S3VP

Fujitsu Siemens
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/prod...lifebook_p.html

ASUS
http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l...413&modelmenu=1
http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l...412&modelmenu=1
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1154

Dell i9300 or XPS2 http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20050224/index.html


Is there any real difference between these laptops? I have a feeling they have almost identical performance and grunt.

Does it now come down to astethics and brand loyalty?

lomb

Gandalf23 wrote:

OK, so is the BEST €2000 laptop on this list or is there better?

IBM T42
http://www.pc.ibm.com/europe/thinkpad/why/en/tseries.html?ie#chart

Sony VAIO
http://vaio.sony-europe.com/PageVie...u=VGNFS115Z.CEK
http://vaio.sony-europe.com/ShowPro...roduct=VGN-S3VP

Fujitsu Siemens
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/prod...lifebook_p.html

ASUS
http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l...413&modelmenu=1
http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l...412&modelmenu=1
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1154

Dell i9300 or XPS2 http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20050224/index.html


Is there any real difference between these laptops? I have a feeling they have almost identical performance and grunt.

Does it now come down to astethics and brand loyalty?

comes down to battery life..............

Rew

Forget Dothan. Waith a month or two and get a Sonoma system. You would be mad to buy Dothan stuff when the next greatest thing is just around the corner.

For Example:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000200028393/

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000367038714/

Gandalf23

Rew wrote:

Forget Dothan. Waith a month or two and get a Sonoma system. You would be mad to buy Dothan stuff when the next greatest thing is just around the corner.

For Example:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000200028393/

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000367038714/

Apologies in advance for my total stupidity, but I thought dothan and sonoma were the same thing?

What is the difference? Is sonoma the next generation of dothan?

Rew

Yup, should be on sale by the summer. Dothan is the existing one and Banias is the pne before (1st Centrino). Make sure you get a laptop that has either the ATI or Nvidia replaceable gfx card. AFAIK they arnt compatible (ie you cannt go from ATI to Nvidia or vice versa) but at least you can upgrade and get more life out of the laptop.

jesus_thats_gre

The XPS2 main attraction is not its looks or battery life... The main attraction is the GPU. It is by far the most powerful in ANY laptop and would easily surpass every single laptop you have listed.

Rew

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

The XPS2 main attraction is not its looks or battery life... The main attraction is the GPU. It is by far the most powerful in ANY laptop and would easily surpass every single laptop you have listed.

Yeah its the best now but what about 6 months or a year? Thats why id prefer to have an upgrade path. I think most of the new Sonnomas will have the upgradeable GPU's. Depends alot on what you want the laptop for but the way I see it is its not any one feature its the collective package.

jesus_thats_gre

The XPS2 uses the new version of the intel mobile processor doesnt it?

EDIT: Uses the Dothan. Not sure whether that is a bad thing.. I would be surprised whether any companies are offering the sonama yet if Dell are not..


Just some benchmarks comparing the x800xt mobility against the 6800 Ultra Go..

http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=75201

Rew

Sonoma stuff is due but not on sale AFAIK. Don't know who will be first. ATI will bring out a new GPU then so will Nvidia and so on. Point is if you can upgrade it your not stuck with an older one even though the rest of the gear can keep up.

jesus_thats_gre

Rew wrote:

Yeah its the best now but what about 6 months or a year? Thats why id prefer to have an upgrade path. I think most of the new Sonnomas will have the upgradeable GPU's. Depends alot on what you want the laptop for but the way I see it is its not any one feature its the collective package.

Just to address what you said directly. I agree that newer processors are a consideration but it is a never ending thing.. The 6800 Ultra in the XPS2 for 2,300 is alot of bang for your buck and I am pretty confident that there wont be a better offer for sometime yet. The Centrino processor low power consumption and low running tempature allows the notebook to be relatively light for its size and feature list while also offering between 2 and 3 hours of battery life..

Compare this with the offerings from Alienware and other manufacturers and you will be hard pressed to find any of the above plus points.

The laptop offers comparable performance as high end, non SLI, desktops.

Rew

Dell has never equated to bang for buck so if they do an XPS for €2300 then shop around and you will get a better deal. I looked at the XPS on the dell site yesterday. €2300 only gets you the base system...

Also the Dothan XPS should drop in price once the Sonoma systems are launched and if the 6800 is the greastest GPU since sliced bread you should have no problem picking up a better deal with that included.

jesus_thats_gre

The Ultra is exclusive to Dell at the moment so thats a no go.. What benefits does the Sonoma offer over the Dothan?


I have researched notebook prices to death at this stage and have not been able to find any system that comes close to Dell's offering. It may be a first for Dell but...

The 2,300 includes their warranty crap. Remove that and add a DVD-RW and a 7,200rpm hard drive. Admitedly, what they charge to upgrade to a gig of Ram is a disgrace but you can buy additional Ram from a third party.


My invoice:

Inspiron XPS-2 Pentium M 760 ( 2.0GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 533MHz FSB)

17" UltraSharp Wide Screen WUXGA (1920 x 1200) Display with TrueLife

Inspiron XPS Gen 2 clear LCD Backcover with 3x colour Inserts

512MB 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2x256)

60GB (7,200rpm) IDE Hard Drive

Fixed Internal 8X DVD+/-RW Drive with Software

Inspiron XPS Gen 2 Nylon Backpack

NVIDIA Geforce Go 6800 ULTRA with 256MB DDR video memory

Integrated 5 Watt subwoofer

Internal 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet NIC

Intel ProWireless 2200 802.11b/g Mini PCI Wireless LAN Card

1Y NBD (Next Business Day) On-site

All for €2,338.00

I challenge anyone to find a laptop with comparable spec and performance for anywhere near that price.

dubstub

Hi, don't know if you've anyone that could do this for you but I've a mate bringing me back a shiny new HP zd8000 next week from the states.
I do some pretty heavy development work and try to buy high-end equipment so that it'll last me 4-5 years. My current laptop is a Dell and while I like Dells, I find the finish on them can be a little plasticty (albeit the XPS2 is an exception to this). Also the Dell machine similarly configured was a *lot* more.
My spec is

3.4Ghz Pentium 4 (650, I think)
2Gb RAM
256mb X600 ATI Mobility
DVD/CD rewriter combo
Dual TV tuner (to record and rewind live tv)
Windows XP Media Center edition
17" widescreen monitor
80Gb 5,400 rpm hard drive
Integrated LAN, bluetooth, wireless, firewire
Laptop carry case.

All for the princly sum of about €2000.

I only play games occasionally (though I am looking forward to putting Half Life 2 on it!) so the x600 didn't bother me too much and I don't care about portability / battery life (once I can move it from room to room and put it away if people are over) so this laptop was perfect for me. The Dell was in the running for a while but just wasn't offering enough for the cost.

jesus_thats_gre

After a little bit of being messed around by Dell, they are offering me a 15% refuned..

The means it is gonna come in at a little under 2000 euro. I am delighted with that.

Rew

2k is a nice price, iv been doing a bit of reading and the XPS2 mabe be a Sonoma machine. Details are a bit confusing atm and im a bit busy in work.

Also the Ultra looks like its upgradable and that the ATI and Nvidia offering are the same standard so you can pick and choose.

How come 15% off?

jesus_thats_gre

Yeah noticed today there were based on the Sonama but I am getting conflicting info from different websites...

I got them to commit to a delivery date (tomorrow as it happens) and they cannot honour it. I was also promised call backs regarding another issue and no one called me.. Through their screwing around, this is actually my third order blah blah blah..

Sort of sick explaining it at the moment

Rew

LOL, there idiots. I used to do the purcahsing in work but havn't had anything to do with it in at least 2 years. All of a sudden about a month ago they started shipping everything in my name instead of the new guy...

Took em ages to pick up stuff that was wrong even though we were refusing to pay up (10k+) till they sorted it. We have huge probs getting quotes for gear half the time. Nice one hammering the discount out of them.

I tried to read up on the sonoma stuff but it looks like the most low key chip launch ever and there is alot of conflicting info, I was under the impresion that the first machines would be may/june.

Gandalf23

There is a lot of crap available about release dates of sonoma... most of it conflicting. The most relaible thing I have seen is this...

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,115699,00.asp


But the "official" launch date for sonoma was Jan 2005...

http://engadget.com/entry/1234000507026942/

Rew

Well DDR2 and a 533mhz FSB implies Sonoma from what I can tell.

Gandalf23

Rew wrote:

Well DDR2 and a 533mhz FSB implies Sonoma from what I can tell.

Please excuse my extreme stupidity, but will it be easy to easy to identify sonoma laptops? Will it say "sonoma" on them?

Rew

No, Im surprised they way things are ATM because when the Dothan chip came out they made a big deal of saying which it was (new or old).

There's a list of the models here:
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/info.htm#pm

If it has a 915/910 chipset its a Sonoma if its 855 is Dothan
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/pentiumm/index.htm
http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/mobile/915_fam.htm

DDR2 is only supported by the Sonoma (its one of it main advantages) as is the 533mhz FSB (I think).

rsynnott

Gandalf23 wrote:

However, I was also thinking of waiting for a few months... for Longhorn even.

A few months? A _FEW_ _MONTHS_? Ah, well, optimism can't hurt, suppose.

Gandalf23

Rew wrote:

No, Im surprised they way things are ATM because when the Dothan chip came out they made a big deal of saying which it was (new or old).

There's a list of the models here:
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/info.htm#pm

If it has a 915/910 chipset its a Sonoma if its 855 is Dothan
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/pentiumm/index.htm
http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/mobile/915_fam.htm

DDR2 is only supported by the Sonoma (its one of it main advantages) as is the 533mhz FSB (I think).

So sonoma IS available now? Or is it?

Why are Intel making it so difficult to identify sonoma?

(Me thinks it might be because the release of sonoma will make all other Pentium M's outdated and drop in price... if there is confusion about the chipset laptops wont be "outdated"...)

Gandalf23

rsynnott wrote:

A few months? A _FEW_ _MONTHS_? Ah, well, optimism can't hurt, suppose.

I know!!! What am I like...

Rew

Gandalf23 wrote:

So sonoma IS available now? Or is it?

Why are Intel making it so difficult to identify sonoma?

(Me thinks it might be because the release of sonoma will make all other Pentium M's outdated and drop in price... if there is confusion about the chipset laptops wont be "outdated"...)

Yes as far as I can tell it is available off the shelf now BUT there is still plenty of the old stuff around as well. The XPS2 that Jesus got looks like its Sonoma. The main diferance is the DDR2, PCIe (replaceable GFX cards) and the price. Why don't you give us a list of what you want in a laptop and maybe we can nudgue you in the right direction?

paulj13

Acer do a desktop replacement notebook range that runs it. They also seem to give the Dell an run for its money.

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/Acer_TravelMate_8100_Laptops/prod.asp

Rew

Yeah this one is very sexy:

Acer TravelMate 8104WLMi (LX.T7206.067)
* Intel Pentium-M Centrino 760 Processor (2.0GHz/533MHz FSB/2MB L2)
* 1024MB DDR2 SDRAM - upgradeable to 2GB
* 100GB Hard Drive
* DVDRW Dual Layer Multi Drive - To read DVDs and CDs and write CDs and DVD+, DVD-, DVD-Ram and large Dual Layer DVD
* 15.4" WSXGA+ Widescreen TFT Screen
* ATI Mobility Radeon X700 Pro PCI-E 128MB dedicated graphics
* Integrated gigabit LAN and wireless 802.11a/b/g LAN
* Integrated Bluetooth
* Integrated 5-in-1 card reader – reads Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card and XD Picture Card
* SoundBlaster Pro Compatible with Dolby support
* Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition Pre Loaded
* Includes Cyberlink Power-DVD and NTI CD-Maker
* 1 year warranty - upgradeable to 3 years for only £99!

About €2k from them but their prices are pretty crap (and their service is worse!) so you could probably get it for less else where.

Gandalf23

Agreed... the ACER is a beast... fantastic spec.

I was never mad about ACER though... I havent heard great things about them... am I wrong?

Anyone know of a similar spec on a SONY or IBM or ASUS?

Rew

I have one, Travelmate 800 great machine. GF just got an Aspire and its very nice. I would recomend the extra warrenty though.

jesus_thats_gre

As far as I know, IBM, Sony or Asus do not offer a system with comparable performance.

The graphics card is key if you are going to be playing games.

paulj13

Rew wrote:

Yeah this one is very sexy:

About €2k from them but their prices are pretty crap (and their service is worse!) so you could probably get it for less else where.

Hi Raw,

What wrong with the price on laptopdirect? Please don't hold out if you know cheaper/better sites as I'm currently shopping around and like the prices laptops direct site. Also in my searches they seem to have a high review rating.

Please let me know if I'm wrong.

Rew

Well my GF bought an Acer Aspire and it was ordered from Laptopshop.co.uk and they bascly cancled the order and didn't tell anybody. Her brother was buying it through his UK company. When it was queried it turned out they had a problem with the VAT number they had been given. Long story but they wouldn't belive the company existed because it wasn't on the list they use to check. When her brother asked how he could sort the problem out they pretty much said he couldn't! The company exists there was nothing dodgy invloved. We shoppd around after that and got it for about £90 less then laptopshop had it for. Iv read other posts about them not taking Irish credit cards and other stupid problems.

We got the Acer Aspire from http://www.technoworld.co.uk/ in the end. Shop around all the UK web sites to make sure your price is good. Check delivery costs as well as they tend to be up and down.

Gandalf23

The ACER TravelMate 8104WLMi looks like the machine for me. However I'm getting confused and p1ssed off with this sonoma / dothan thing.

This review from cnet says the 8104WLMi is dothan...
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/hardware/notebooks/0,39001745,39083720p,00.htm?

... and this review says the 8104WLMi is sonoma...
http://www.computerbuyer.co.uk/buyer/pcpro-reviews/70413/acer-travelmate-8104wlmi.html


I have to admit, I'm very very tempted to wait till the end of the summer till I'm more certain of EXACTLY what I'm buying.

(And I know this doesnt really matter when considering the power and performance of the laptop... I just want the latest and best chip I can get at this stage...)

Rew

Its a sonoma. 915 chip set have a look at acer.co.uk and http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000200028393/

paulj13

Its a Sonoma alright. Have a read of this really good personal review with great images and benchmarks.

http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=62009

Rew

Good review here:
http://go.theregister.com/feed/http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/14/review_acer_8104/

donalin

If I were to get a laptop I would get a 15' Apple Powerbook G4! This is the best of the best in apple laptops. They retail in Ireland for about €2,329.00 but you can get one here for €1,794.25.


Alot of people dont like apple computers but I really cant see what not to like!!