What can i Do? Re:Irish teacher

i have a big problem, currently i'm in 5th year, doing honours irish in the top class (officially we've 2 hounours classes but in september we'll be the only class doing honours) and have come to the conclusion that it doesn't warrant all the study that is needed to use this as a "points subject", i'm studying 8 subjects already. But i still want to do honours irish, i'm quite capable at irish and quite confidently could say that if i did the leaving cert tomorrow i could pass it.
Now, the problem. My teacher has written "notes" for us to learn by heart for the exam, (5 essays and notes on all the poems and stories) which comes to about 30 A4 pages, the second i saw them i knew i wasnt goin to learn them, it's far too much work to take on for a subject that's not one of "your 6".
So i've spoken to my teacher, told her the circumstances, quite plainly and said to her that i'm not going to learn them off, it's too much, at first she said it was fine, for me to not learn them off and instead try by myself (about C standard essays) but on wednesday after class she spoke to me again, basically saying that i'm too arrogant, that if i want to do honours irish then i should aim for an A, even if it means that my final points total will go down, and that i now have to learn off all the notes. Finally she gave me an ultimatum "If you're not going to work me way then you're going to have to find somewhere else to do it".
I was a bit dumbstruck when she said this to me so i had nothing to say back to her, to plead my case, basically she has said to me "This is the honours class, to do honours you have to do what i say, if not, you do pass, i don't care what you want to do".

Where do i stand here? What can i do? What should i do?

grimloch

well unless im mistaken youre doing 9 subjects for the L.C.? that sounds like a fair workload but if youre able for it....

if you want to do the higher course and are capable of doing it then do the higher level, i wouldnt let a bossy teacher bully you into doing something you dont really want to do, its your choice what level you want to do in the end

basically its your choice and if you want to work to a C standard there's sod all she can do about it, maybe have a few more words with her although it may not achieve much, she cant force you to learn off 30 a4 pages

well basically the undertone of the conversation was "if you don't learn the notes, you're not going to be in my class".

(i'm studying a total of 8 subjects btw)

Chong

Report her to your principal, or inform your parents and have them report her.

Bah

Willem D wrote:

Report her to your principal, or inform your parents and have them report her.

She's effectively just set homework - which everybody in the class is expected to do. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe if she was only making certain people in the class learn them off and not others, then you might be able to report her.
She's not stopping you doing honours level irish - she's really just stopping you staying in her class for not doing the work. Obviously she can't stand over you in the exam when you ask for a higher level paper...
Just take a look over the notes, be able to reproduce something similar to get her off your back.
Reporting a teacher will get you nowhere, the principal is practically guaranted to side with the teacher. It's sad, but true.

Chong

It happened me also when I was in sixth year, my english teacher continually told to do pass english , but I persisted and got a C1 honour in my leaving.

Bah

Willem D wrote:

It happened me also when I was in sixth year, my english teacher continually told to do pass english , but I persisted and got a C1 in my leaving.

From reading Leroy Uninterested Bumper's posts, it doesn't seem like it's the same situation...

Webmonkey

Bah wrote:

She's effectively just set homework - which everybody in the class is expected to do. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe if she was only making certain people in the class learn them off and not others, then you might be able to report her.
She's not stopping you doing honours level irish - she's really just stopping you staying in her class for not doing the work. Obviously she can't stand over you in the exam when you ask for a higher level paper...
Just take a look over the notes, be able to reproduce something similar to get her off your back.
Reporting a teacher will get you nowhere, the principal is practically guaranted to side with the teacher. It's sad, but true.

It's ridiculous learing tones of A4 page essays off. Thats not learning Irish? You arn't gauranteed that any of the essays are going to come up? What a waste of time.
It's easier to actually learn irish and be able to form any essay then, Plus thats the way it should be. This learning off stuff is just stuipid in my opinion.

You shouldn't be forced to learn all that, I , me personally, I would go to the principal and report it. Every principal is different they might take students side. I know for a fact my principal will, he isn't afriad to talk up to teachers.

Just my opinion.

Webmonkey

grimloch

It's easier to actually learn irish and be able to form any essay then

exactly, id much rather spend my time learning to have good grammer and verbs than an essay spouted off from memory

a few phrases here and there but time spent memorising sheets can be spent more fruitfully

grimloch

grimloch wrote:

exactly, id much rather spend my time learning to have good grammer and verbs than an essay spouted off from memory

a few phrases here and there but time spent memorising sheets can be spent more fruitfully

i have actually said that esact phrase to her, her response

"I know what i'm teaching, i'm teaching it because it works, it's worked before and it will work again.

Bah

Webmonkey wrote:

It's ridiculous learing tones of A4 page essays off. Thats not learning Irish? You arn't gauranteed that any of the essays are going to come up? What a waste of time.

Exactly - it's a total waste of time. But that's just the way it is in most schoold. The teacher is king. I never said I agreed with it.

grimloch

Deleted User wrote:

i have actually said that esact phrase to her, her response

"I know what i'm teaching, i'm teaching it because it works, it's worked before and it will work again.

ah, one of the "my way or the highway teachers", i dont think shes going to budge on this issue unfortunately,

ive a similar teacher with a "do this my way or get a detention" attitude, for the most part i conform to it as the teacher is quite unreasonable to say the least

has the teacher actually given you any threats of being put down to pass or disciplinary action?

lestats_bride

I think you should let her put you down to pass and do the honours course yourself. If you can already speak and write Irish then you just need to know your poetry and stories and you don't need a teacher for that. Just a good book.

Learning off essays is pathetic. How does she know the essays that are coming up?! :rolleyes:

Praetorian

I think there is something fundamentally wrong with the way languages are taught in secondary schools. Learning off whole essays in general is designed to pass the exam, rather than to teach the language. But learning off word for word is a gamble in itself, as people have already mentioned, the topic may not come up!

I recall learning more French with a French French teacher who only spoke French to us in a month than I did with my Irish French teacher who insisted on spending 90% of her time trying to teach us grammar.

C’est la vie

Emmett, I think you should get your parent or guardian involved.

D-Generate

If she wants to make you move class then just do but don't drop down the level. She will look bad for forcing you down and you say yourself that you don't need her anymore so its a win win. Besides you will have an easier time in pass also.

I cant drop a class and not a level, in september, the 5b class will become pass, and anyone who still wants to do honours and is capable enough to will go to 5a, back to the same teacher.

I've spoken to my parents about it and my dad will be going in to talk to her in the next week or two.

grimloch

that seems like a good idea, a parent can get alot more achieved than a student

4Xcut

Think about it logically. How easy is it for her to re-arrange it so that you do pass. Witheveryone doing different subjects aswell that time-tables will be in a mess. Un less your school has unreal numbers she cant do anything. I remember before i left at the end of T.Y. for the leaving cert the school just couldn't make you change class, it just wasn't feasible. Also learning off essays is stupid. she is a muppet, muppets shouldn't be listened to.

grimloch

4Xcut wrote:

Think about it logically. How easy is it for her to re-arrange it so that you do pass. Witheveryone doing different subjects aswell that time-tables will be in a mess. Un less your school has unreal numbers she cant do anything. I remember before i left at the end of T.Y. for the leaving cert the school just couldn't make you change class, it just wasn't feasible.

i dont think she can force anyone to lower level from a rules point of view, as fair as im aware the decision rests with the pupil at the end of the day

Also learning off essays is stupid. she is a muppet

johnnyq

Just say to her yes i'll do it, then just go over it with a highlighter and learn wat u think u need 2 know. Getting principals/parents involved is always messy and won't win you any favours. Remember, teachers talk to each other too.

randomfella

Looking from a broader perspective, it depends how many points you need for your course. If you really have 7 other subjects that you are better in and u are SURE u are!! and are prepared to work in then why not drop down (but wait till end of sixth year, so u get better teacher). 8 subjects are too many! Co-operate with her for now, i know exactly the type she is, and its better to just do that for the time being. I don't think she honestly means word for word, she probraly means have a good jist of it, and pick out useful sentences. Besides, your only in 5th year so don't rush any decisions.

okay a couple of points to address.
1 - The timetable will not have to change at all for me to do pass, all of 5th year do Irish at the same times, i'd only have to go to a different calss for irish periods
2 - I want to do honours, i don't want to take the easy way out, i got an A in honours in the junior cert and would like to have a decent standard finishing school.
3 - I can't just say i've learned it, we've tests after we've learned each page (once a week)
4 - the 5A teacher now, will be the 6A teacher come september, this is the only honours class, so she's the only honours teacher.

the smiley one

this is what I've heard, now personally I think it's a load of Bo*****ks but there you go.....*apparently the only way to get an A1/A2 in honours Irish is to learn off an essay.........i know its awful, but maybe your teacher knows this. I would say avoid as much agro as you can with the teacher (principal, parents etc.)because if you are going to say in her class then it's going to be very uncomfortable for the next year or so. WHat you could do is go through the stuff that she gives you and formulate your own answer and learn off all the vocab you don't know and then give that to her when she does class tests-would she agree to that?

that's exactly what i have asked her to, and at first she said it was fine, but a week later, out of nowhere she just says, you're too arrogant, it's not going to work like this, my way or the highway etc

wheresthebeef

Unfortunately the teacher is the boss. And ultimately it probably is a little bit arrogant to think you know better than the teacher, after all the teacher has a degree in the subject they are teaching and a H.Dip in Education. They should know how to get the best results.

All the teacher is asking you to do, is do the same as the rest of the class and not look for special treatment just because you don't need the points for irish. If that was the case, homework would be optional to those who wanted good grades and students who didnt care could opt out.
If you start to pick and choose what work your willing to do, you will undermine the whole system. You have to row in with everyone and do what needs to be done. and if you only revise the stuff enough to pass class tests, and get to the leaving cert not remembering it and you only get a C, then thats fine.

There is a system of education and it has to be the same for everyone. I doubt my maths teacher would be too pleased if i told him i wasnt going to do any of the revision work he sets cos maths is my 7th subject.

Stop looking for special treatment.

4Xcut

grimloch wrote:

i dont think she can force anyone to lower level from a rules point of view, as fair as im aware the decision rests with the pupil at the end of the day

Obviously she cant make him change levels, you can change on the day if you want ffs(maybe inconvient for the dept. but they allow it)
What she can do is suggest that he be moved to a different class. The principle(sp?) will think she is right cos she's the teacher.

randomfella

If you got an A in the junior cert what are you moaning about. You are obviously good at irish. Learn as much of the essays as possible when it comes to test, you will prob do better than u expect. Ur teacher might be a bit fussy but you are being arrogant about it, getting hung up on such a minor issue. I'd be delighted if i got sample essays for the irish aiste.

obviously you dont understand the postition i'm in, i have a good standard of irish, i want to continue with honours irish for the Leaving cert, but as i'm doing 7 other honours subjects, i have realised that the work needed to get points from irish would actually detract from other subjects. Among this work is essay's to learn off by heart and regurgitate on the day.

The problem is that i want to learn Irish.
That is my problem, in a nutshell.

I don't want to learn of 40 pages of Irish notes and essays, which will be 100% useless to me once i finish the leaving cert, i'd prefer to learn Irish, the language, how to speak it, listen to it and understand it. And when i look at my subjects i see "Irish" not "Irish Essay Learning" as a class.

And don't say that learning Irish will be useless to me after the leaving cert, i want to speak my native language. Not be able to write an essay on the problem of Racism in this country to an A1 standard, to be able to speak and use Irish.

4Xcut

randomfella wrote:

If you got an A in the junior cert what are you moaning about. You are obviously good at irish. Learn as much of the essays as possible when it comes to test, you will prob do better than u expect. Ur teacher might be a bit fussy but you are being arrogant about it, getting hung up on such a minor issue. I'd be delighted if i got sample essays for the irish aiste.

his point is he only wants a C and shouldn't be forced to do something as stupid as learming off an essay. This in no way shows intelligence just determination(or being stubern(sp?) as its more commonly known). Do you not agree that our minds can be put to better use than memorising off a sequence of words. Learning off stuff mindlessly is about as much use as knowing pie(as in 3.14) to a hundred places. Knowledge is no use if you cant reason it and reproduce it yourself.

randomfella

Seriously though, if you got an A in the junior cert and u can write a C grade essay without study and your only in fifth year you are well capable of getting an A in the leaving cert, easily. I can't really understand this situation, you want to learn how to speak irish and not how to write essays on racism???? Yea i'd rather learn how to speak german without doing comprehensions on a handicapped boy who has a guide dog. so what?

Aswel u said u won't use "an essay on racism in irish". Do u think i'm going to ever need an essay on the French Third Republic that i learnt by heart when i leave school? Seriously its the leaving cert, cos u leave it all behind u. U never need the vast majority of it again. But it does give u an education, which tries to make u think for yourself. Another days topic.....

Tough **** thats the leaving cert, and its what everybody else is doing. Are u going for 700 points or something? your being such a bitch about it.

Webmonkey

randomfella wrote:

Seriously though, if you got an A in the junior cert and u can write a C grade essay without study and your only in fifth year you are well capable of getting an A in the leaving cert, easily. I can't really understand this situation, you want to learn how to speak irish and not how to write essays on racism???? Yea i'd rather learn how to speak german without doing comprehensions on a handicapped boy who has a guide dog. so what?

Aswel u said u won't use "an essay on racism in irish". Do u think i'm going to ever need an essay on the French Third Republic that i learnt by heart when i leave school? Seriously its the leaving cert, cos u leave it all behind u. U never need the vast majority of it again. But it does give u an education, which tries to make u think for yourself. Another days topic.....

Tough **** thats the leaving cert, and its what everybody else is doing. Are u going for 700 points or something? your being such a bitch about it.

What the hell is wrong with you?