RX-8 with 1.3L = 230bhp

zod

We all know the wankel engine ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine ) is better in theory - we just don't have the materials yet yada yada.

My question is more related to VRT.. since all our motor TAX systems are based on CC - these should be cheaper to bring in second hand and also cheaper to TAX :cool: .

Can't seem to find the 1.3 on ros.ie - anyone know why

Delta_ie

they are taxed as a 1.8 not 1.3

zod

Delta_ie wrote:

they are taxed as a 1.8 not 1.3

how do you know this?

Thumper Long

its to do with the cycle of the engine technically they are a 1.3 in a stationary position but the capacity increases as it provides all the stages/strokes in one fluid movement, believe me when you see the fuel consumption on a rx7 / rx8 you wont believe anything about them is 1.3l

PlayaFlow

that gets me sooo angry , and for insurance they charge as a 2.7.
If the rules are to charge by cc they should stick by it. they made their Bed so they should sleep in it, they cant just go around makin up imaginary figures just because a manufacturer has been innovative.
THE CAR IS A 1.3 and thats what it should be charged as, ....stupid scam artists!!!

Peace

Just when you think you're about to get one over on the system... the system says hell no, and turns the screw some more!

zod

Thumper Long wrote:

its to do with the cycle of the engine technically they are a 1.3 in a stationary position but the capacity increases as it provides all the stages/strokes in one fluid movement, believe me when you see the fuel consumption on a rx7 / rx8 you wont believe anything about them is 1.3l

What has the cycle got to do with the capacity ?? How did they pick 1.8 as the Taxing point - it has nothing to do with the real capacity?

This is almost unconstitutional :mad:

Delta_ie

the 2.7 is to do with the older rx7 that had a twin turbo 1.3 the newer rx8 as far as I know is taxed as a 1.8. I think it is done on the power etc of the car because thay do not use the common piston engine.

zod

Delta_ie wrote:

the 2.7 is to do with the older rx7 that had a twin turbo 1.3 the newer rx8 as far as I know is taxed as a 1.8. I think it is done on the power etc of the car because thay do not use the common piston engine.

Does anyone have any facts on this .. do they have different tax regimes for different types of engines.??

peterk19

I think its based on the fact that rotarys capacity changes constantly when they are running id love to know what they are classed as in this country because id love to get one
pete

zod

peterk19 wrote:

I think its based on the fact that rotarys capacity changes constantly when they are running

The capacity of a cylinder in a normal four stroke engine changes depending on the position of the piston..

peterk19 wrote:

id love to know what they are classed as in this country because id love to get one

... anyway

For years when people complained that TAX and insurance on Diesel cars was unfair because the power output from the equivalent CC petrol engine was greater .. the excuse was - "we tax based on CC. Period"

Now when a car comes about that gives the consumer the benefit they change the rules! What a rip off.

Delta_ie

It has always been like this with people importing rx7 s the same thing happens in the UK

zod

Delta_ie wrote:

It has always been like this with people importing rx7 s the same thing happens in the UK

That neither makes it right or excusable

Blitzkrieger

Delta_ie wrote:

I think it is done on the power etc of the car because thay do not use the common piston engine.

I thought we were supposed to have moved to emissions based taxing? God only knows how that'll work.

PlayaFlow wrote:

and for insurance they charge as a 2.7.

Insurance tend to charge based on power. E.g. : 2.0 Celica GT fully comp = €1,600. 2.0 Turbo Celica GT-Four TPF&T = €2,700. Fookers. It's not that much faster than a GT (said with fingers crossed behind back).

zod

Ok called them on 4149700

VRT Staff : "It will be based on the CC in the log book"
me: "Please confirm before I decide to import"
called me back..
VRT Staff : "Yes I can confirm that they will be taxed at 1.7 L rate and that this has nothing to do with the actual capacity of 1.3L"
me: "Can I query this"
VRT Staff : "Yes - all you have to do is import the car first - pay the VRT as currently calculated- then query it"
me: "I have to import it FIRST ?"
VRT Staff: "Yes and you may not be successfull with any query afterwards."

flav0rflav

Would you prefer if they taxed it at as a 2.6?

I have seen good arguments to suggest that this is the true technical equivalent capacity, compared to a four-stroke piston engine. (To do with combustion's per revolution). The actual figure used by the revenus and listed on the reg is 1.74. Which compares nicely to a VW 1.8 5v turbo engines at 225 bhp.

I'm sure the law leaves a loophole for them to do whatever they like. I'd be worried about the soon to be introduced, tax based on emissions. This is high on the RX-8. But the government seems to have stalled on this policy.

De Hipster

Blitzkrieger wrote:

Insurance tend to charge based on power. E.g. : 2.0 Celica GT fully comp = €1,600. 2.0 Turbo Celica GT-Four TPF&T = €2,700. Fookers. It's not that much faster than a GT (said with fingers crossed behind back).

Bloody hell man...I got a fully comp quote for a 2.0GT @ €651.

zod

flav0rflav wrote:

Would you prefer if they taxed it at as a 2.6?

What I or anyone else prefers got nothing to do with it, its what the law says, Turbo chargers do not affect VRT or motor TAX why should this be any different?

Ratchet

it should be really taxed as 1.3 full stop. it is not like they are importing 20.000 of them a year.

Dades

Blitzkrieger wrote:

I thought we were supposed to have moved to emissions based taxing? God only knows how that'll work.

Which tax is this to be for - VRT or motor tax (or both)?

Kavs

Sorry to stray off the point but I drove one of these beasts down in Oz at the christmas ,now this was'nt the fisher price model we get in Europe but a 300 bhp model(high spec model) holy crap that was one cool car lovely six speed gearbox .,engine limited to around 9,500 rpm(If i remember correctly) bloody insane rpm anyway!The roar from the engine is unbelieveable.
The god damn thing stuck to the road like glue ,19 inch rims helped a bit.
Probably safe to say this is one of the best 2 + 2 coupes around at the moment.
Fairly guzzelles juice though if you've got a heavy foot(common symptom from driving this car, begs for RPM!)
anyway sorry for the sidetrack had to get that in there!

PlayaFlow

what u mean by a 300bhp model , not like we get in europe ????...was it an official mazda that came stock with 300bhp , or did it get its 300bhp by aftermarket modifications?
cos as far as i know there are only 2 official models: 190 and 230 bhps

Ratchet

zod wrote:

Ok called them on 4149700

VRT Staff : "It will be based on the CC in the log book"
me: "Please confirm before I decide to import"
called me back..
VRT Staff : "Yes I can confirm that they will be taxed at 1.7 L rate and that this has nothing to do with the actual capacity of 1.3L"
me: "Can I query this"
VRT Staff : "Yes - all you have to do is import the car first - pay the VRT as currently calculated- then query it"
me: "I have to import it FIRST ?"
VRT Staff: "Yes and you may not be successfull with any query afterwards."

rang them too and got cut off after 5min as nobody was able to tell me why system shows 1744cc when paper work shows 1308cc.

flav0rflav

I'm not sure why I'm inclined to continue the debate, as some people seem not to recognise the idea of "real world" and "compromise".

Anyway if you do wnat to argue with the authorities, what about the cap on tax ie.

1L - 151
2L - 539
3L - 1109
4L - 1343
5L - 1343
6L - 1343

Funny how there are so many of those S500s around.

But if you would like cheap tax, try:

Island Vehicles - 78
Agriculture tractor, trench digger and excavator - 78
Motor Caravan - 78
Hearse - 78
Dumper and forklift truck - 78
Taxi and hackney - 72
Schoolbus - 72

Yes, that's right, we're an island, and the tax should be 78 euro.

LFCFan

When getting a motor quote from Quinn Direct for the RX-8, the CC comes up as 2616cc. Insurance companies never miss a trick, that's for sure!

Ratchet

flav0rflav wrote:

I'm not sure why I'm inclined to continue the debate, as some people seem not to recognise the idea of "real world" and "compromise".

.....................

well you can look at it in two ways :
yes engine is different and we can't apply normal rules but when looking at VRT rates , I can't see any special reference to rotary engines which would make me believe that car should be in under 1400cc group.

or
we can go by manufactrers engine displacement which is 1308cc

I know where people get 2616cc but would like to know how they calculate 1744cc

Seanie M

Delta_ie wrote:

they are taxed as a 1.8 not 1.3

1.7 actually... I'm looking into buying one.

Dades

flav0rflav wrote:

But if you would like cheap tax, try:

Island Vehicles - 78
Agriculture tractor, trench digger and excavator - 78
Motor Caravan - 78
Hearse - 78
Dumper and forklift truck - 78
Taxi and hackney - 72
Schoolbus - 72

Yes, that's right, we're an island, and the tax should be 78 euro.

You forgot Classic Cars - 43

And almost as practical as a Schoolbus.

Kavs

PlayaFlow, The story is that down in oz ,and other pacific countries , u can get the high spec sports model not available up here ,and she comes in at 290 - 300 bhp, also full leather + bucket seats, Bose sound system(sweet as!!!)
, chrome finish interior and monster 19" rims. Jeeez what I'd give to have a car like that here! And yes all factory fit at about 3/4 the price of the bog standard version here,,, gotta love this country!

If ya still don't believe me maybe check out a mazda dealership in Oz or something like that,, might have a quick look myself now.

peterk19

You are so full of sh1t i was in nz last year and knew guys workin in a main mazda/ford dealership and they dont come in that spec i also have driven one and as impressive as they are they dont come in the spec you say.
I had to post this to prove it to you
http://www.mazda.com.au/rx8/specifications_pl.asp?ID=43
It says Maximum power man kW 177 @ 8,200rpm which to me is roughly 250hp
Pete

Kavs wrote:

PlayaFlow, The story is that down in oz ,and other pacific countries , u can get the high spec sports model not available up here ,and she comes in at 290 - 300 bhp, also full leather + bucket seats, Bose sound system(sweet as!!!)
, chrome finish interior and monster 19" rims. Jeeez what I'd give to have a car like that here! And yes all factory fit at about 3/4 the price of the bog standard version here,,, gotta love this country!

If ya still don't believe me maybe check out a mazda dealership in Oz or something like that,, might have a quick look myself now.

Kavs

peterk19 bollox,, U callin me a liar biotch! I drove the fu*kin thing ,Cousin gave me a detailed low down on the car, he even bought a hard back brochure when he got the car and as my memory serves me Bhp was up at the 290 mark.
why would I bullsh*t makes no difference to me.

Now unless my trip to Oz is a figment of my Imagination u best check ur facts again mate!