Is it bad if you get caught driving by yourself on your 1st provisional?

Merrion

It is probably not too bad if you are caught as the courts have better things to deal with, but if you have an accident while driving unnacompanied on a first provisional you could be looking at a world of pain. (Most likely a disqualification, possibly a loss adjustor suing you for the full cost of the incident plus legal fees)

I personally wouldn't (and didn't) but the decision is yours.

Kristok

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

While this move would certainly cause difficulty for many there are just far too many provisional drivers on the roads - some seem to be long term provisional drivers. I have even heard of people using addresses in different counties to obtain more provisional licences!

Also there should be a point penalty for full licence drivers who display L plates when they are driving as there is in the UK.

It will never happen, insurance companies make a fortune off of young people on provo license.

Why would you want to stop people with full license displaying an L plate ?!? what exactly would that change.

bp_me

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

While this move would certainly cause difficulty for many there are just far too many provisional drivers on the roads - some seem to be long term provisional drivers. I have even heard of people using addresses in different counties to obtain more provisional licences!

Also there should be a point penalty for full licence drivers who display L plates when they are driving as there is in the UK.

While I dont disagree with you, a waiting period of upto and including 60 weeks makes this impractical. If the waiting time were to drop so you could do a test say every 6 weeks this would be possible (almost).

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Im a 21 year old guy. Ive been driving motorbikes for just under 4 years. Never had a crash or a claim and ive a full motorbike licence. Im planning to get insured on a car aswell, which i will not use very often. I will have a fully licenced driver with me until im totally comfortable in the car, but after that i do intend to drive on my own in the car if i need to.

I think here is where the problem lies, i will be treated the same as any other person who has just started driving a car even tho ive 4 years experiance under my belt.

peasant

I don't understand what all this whinging, moaning and stretching of the law is all about ...consider yourselves lucky that there is something like a provisional licence, that allows you to get driving experience (under supervision by a licensed driver) at all.

In other countries (e.g. Germany) you are not allowed onto the road unless you have a full licenence. In order to even get that, you must show so many hours of driving lessons (with professional instructor, dual controls car) x-amounts of hours in town, x hours overland, x hours motorway and night driving. Costs SERIOUS money !! (My licence with the minimum of hours over 20 years ago already cost the equivalent of 700 euros ...these days you can't get the hours and fees paid under 1200 - 1500 Euro :eek: ) and if you fail the test, you keep on paying until you finally pass.

If you want to drive a bike or truck on top of that, you have to start from scratch again ...take all the lessons, all the theoretical tests, etc ...fork out onother 1200 Euros for every licence.

Bri

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

Exactly. My god I remembed why I stopped reading this forum. Cormie it was your mind-numbing thread asking why you got harassed for stopping to collect people each morning at some blatantly unsuitable location, making me realise I didn't want to voluntarily read annoying posts - it's bad enough trying to drive around the multiple muppets. Sure the system is majorly flawed, but so is the transport system; doesnt mean you have the right to not pay the fare on the bus or drive in the bus lane, just cause you need to get to work.

It's the law. I hope they clamp down on it and punish you all. Oh and I had a friend who got caught doing it and breaking the speed limit and he got plenty of hassle.

Seth Brundle

The Muppet wrote:

A car isn't a right or a privilige to many people it's a neccessity.

really? And how did they cope before they had a car? Nothing, except food, water, good health and shelter are necessities!

cormie wrote:

In the eyes of the law I'm not competant to be driving alone. I feel I am.

You feel you are! I feel Im better than Mick Schumacher but that doesn't make it so!

cormie wrote:

The incident you are thinking of was not on a motorway.

I was thinking of the overtaking on the M50 thread - fair enough it may not have been you. Anyway, you were the one who decided to stop on a busy slip road to pick up your mates!

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

Insurance companys should not be our law enforcers.

Con9903 wrote:

In all fairness the driving test still doesn't certify that a person is a good driver as some of them get lucky on that one day and pass.

True but it is the only test we have that allows someone to drive 'unrestricted' on our roads

BrynW wrote:

I think here is where the problem lies, i will be treated the same as any other person who has just started driving a car even tho ive 4 years experiance under my belt.

And why not? Riding a bike is qiute different to driving a car.

seamus

BrynW wrote:

I think here is where the problem lies, i will be treated the same as any other person who has just started driving a car even tho ive 4 years experiance under my belt.

It's actually necessary, and you won't realise why until you've been driving a car for a while. Rules of the road aside, driving a car and driving a bike are two quite different animals.

cormie

I was thinking of the overtaking on the M50 thread - fair enough it may not have been you. Anyway, you were the one who decided to stop on a busy slip road to pick up your mates!

Oh, that was me too I thought you were talking about the stopping to pick my friend up one... which as I said, once I realised it was wrong, I stopped doing it and met the guy at the different point suggested to me. So Bri, I respect everyones oppinions, the more I get the better, so don't abandon the forums for the likes of my previous questions. I'm only trying to make myself safer so if and when we do cross paths, I wont crash into you :rolleyes:

Edit: regarding the overtaking, I realise the dangers involved and even though I'm very cautious about getting into the same situation. Now I never did before, but after reading the "Flashing to overtake" thread, it's ironic because I noticed myself having to flash at many people in the fast lane when it was late and night and there were no cars in the left hand lane and they were doing about 70 in the overtaking lane. I didn't overtake them in the left hand lane, I just flashed, they went left and I overtook them then. Again, if you think I'm some speedy boy, I'm not, I go the limits and don't break them unless necessary, which is extremely seldom. I'm not one of these people who do 70 in a 60 zone and continue doing 70 in a 75 zone. I can only improve whatever my flaws may be.

On a side note, what are the waiting lists for tests in Germany?

PlayaFlow

I was driving down the n3 when i was 17 on my first prov , doin 60 mph in the bus lane in the car on my own, with no L-plates and not wearing my glasses (it says i need em on my licence, but i see fine ). 2 gardai stopped me asked for my licence ( i was crappin my self at this stage ) looked at it, handed it back with a 35euro fine. and said "pay within 30days, now off you go"

Another time a Garda car was pullin out of a petrol station , i flew by at 80mph and cut accros 2 lanes to make a exit (of course with no cars in the way , obviously) He pulled me over and said "slow down ya feckin Lunatic" quite angry. I sincerley apologized and gave my reasons, he then said be more carefull in future .
I stupidly asked "would u like to see my licence sir?" ...(i dont know why) , he said "no youre fine, good luck!"

they were the only times i have ever been pulled over by the gardai!

What a nice a reasonable bunch of people!!!!

PS. i dont usually drive like that ,but 3 years later and i have never touched off another car, although a moped did smash into me once. ...and legged it.

PlayaFlow

i should also add that i got my full licence that same year , first time round when i was 17. with only one fault ( pay more attention to the left when turning right)
first time i ever put on L-plates was driving in to the test centre, hehe.

im a really good driver have over 25k now , not a bother on anyone.

30-6shooter

Another time a Garda car was pullin out of a petrol station , i flew by at 80mph and cut accros 2 lanes to make a exit (of course with no cars in the way , obviously) He pulled me over and said "slow down ya feckin Lunatic" quite angry. I sincerley apologized and gave my reasons, he then said be more carefull in future .

Lol,, ,thats class.

Sure we all have to learn somewhere. Theres way too much bull**** made of all this whole driving lark. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to drive a car reasonably well. Its all a money racket hidden up in a cloud of "safety" political correctness crap.

To the people driving on their 1st provs unaccompanied: I wouldnt lose sleep over it. Just have your test booked and pass it soon as possible.

My only problem regaring all this, are long term provisionals who never plan to actually pass whatever thats all about :rolleyes:

The General

Con9903 wrote:

Thats just silly

No your just silly what he says is the truth if you havent got a full license and you havent got a full license driver with you get the fuk off the road, its the law

30-6shooter

No your just silly what he says is the truth if you havent got a full license and you havent got a full license driver with you get the fuk off the road, its the law

Actually, its only the law if your on a first provisional!

PlayaFlow

30-6 Shooter , youre absolutley right word for word . way to big of a deal is made of all this crap. U either can drive or u cant , who gives a crap bout L-plates and all prov , just apply for your full and and hope u get it just to shut evryone up.
Its not like you go into test center a crap driver and you caome out a good one because you have a cert of competency!!

If its there....its been there from the beggining!!! is what i always say!

Hotblack Desiato

30-6shooter wrote:

Actually, its only the law if your on a first provisional!

No. You're only allowed drive a car unaccompanied on a second provisional. Third or subsequent provisional, you must be accompanied.

PlayaFlow wrote:

way to big of a deal is made of all this crap. U either can drive or u cant , who gives a crap bout L-plates and all

Most people in Ireland can't drive for toffee, full licence or not, but they all think they're great. FFS we have people on boards with no experience who think they'll be "grand" after 2 or 3 lessons.
Trust me your perspective will change when someone close to you is needlessly killed on the roads.
Driving is a privilege, not a right, and it's a privilege not to be taken lightly.

kikel

cormie wrote:

I disagree. I'm still on a provisional myself. Yes, at the start I wasn't experienced, but 20 thousand miles later I do feel I have gained enough experience to be considered a safe driver. The waiting list for a full test is ridiculous. And by that your basically saying that the day before somebody passes their driving test, they shouldn't be on the road, but a day later, just because they have a cert of success, they are safe.

20,000 miles later and you havn't taken your test yet. You should of taken it at least once by now. Comparing you to an average driver 20,000 miles equal 1.5 years driving. No waiting list is that long. If it is go to another county.

If your a safe driver you would have done and passed your test by now.

cormie

kikel wrote:

20,000 miles later and you havn't taken your test yet. You should of taken it at least once by now. Comparing you to an average driver 20,000 miles equal 1.5 years driving. No waiting list is that long. If it is go to another county.

If your a safe driver you would have done and passed your test by now.

If you must know, I've been driving since I'd say April last year, I got insured to drive my car Feb 19th, 2004 and wouldn't have been driving it properly really until around April. I mainly used it to practice with in between lessons. I didn't apply for my test straight away and the centre I did apply with has a waiting list of about 46 weeks (at present, it may have been longer when I applied). So no, I have not had a test yet. I havent even got my 4/5 weeks notice yet :mad:

So I have driven 20K in about a year. I've driven in all conditions too, city, motorway, country, night, day, mist, rain, snow, sleet, sun, passengers, heavy traffic, light traffic, 5 minute drive, 5 hour drive, cork, kerry and galway and back in the year. I also have previous road experience on a bicycle. People may say it's not the same, it's not, but it's still road experience and being able to anticipate things etc.

Its not like you go into test center a crap driver and you caome out a good one because you have a cert of competency!!

Exactly my point earlier on in the thread, I am, in effect waiting to be told I'm a competent driver. I've already been told by IAM Ignition but not officially, so is it a case that I am not competent now, but if I pass my test tomorrow, I am?

Imposter

cormie wrote:

Edit: regarding the overtaking, I realise the dangers involved and even though I'm very cautious about getting into the same situation. Now I never did before, but after reading the "Flashing to overtake" thread, it's ironic because I noticed myself having to flash at many people in the fast lane when it was late and night and there were no cars in the left hand lane and they were doing about 70 in the overtaking lane. I didn't overtake them in the left hand lane, I just flashed, they went left and I overtook them then. Again, if you think I'm some speedy boy, I'm not, I go the limits and don't break them unless necessary, which is extremely seldom. I'm not one of these people who do 70 in a 60 zone and continue doing 70 in a 75 zone. I can only improve whatever my flaws may be.

On a side note, what are the waiting lists for tests in Germany?

I'm guessing you're talking in miles here? If so you do realise there are no 75 zones? Similarly learner drivers shouldn't be on the motorways which are the only 70 'zones'!

If germany is anything like Austria there is no real waiting times. If you've passed your theory test and your instructor thinks you're good enough you are scheduled for the next tests in your town (I lived in a small town and they had tests once a week, larger towns would be every day). If you fail the instructors usually will get you to do 10 more sessions (45 mins each, 20 compulsary before 1st test) and then you'll sit the next test if the instrustor thinks you'll pass.

bonzai bob

Would all the so called ''competent'' fully licensed drivers get off their high ****in horse! The majority of muppets on the road I come across are so called ''competent'' fully licensed drivers:rolleyes:

cormie

Imposter wrote:

I'm guessing you're talking in miles here? If so you do realise there are no 75 zones? Similarly learner drivers shouldn't be on the motorways which are the only 70 'zones'!

If germany is anything like Austria there is no real waiting times. If you've passed your theory test and your instructor thinks you're good enough you are scheduled for the next tests in your town (I lived in a small town and they had tests once a week, larger towns would be every day). If you fail the instructors usually will get you to do 10 more sessions (45 mins each, 20 compulsary before 1st test) and then you'll sit the next test if the instrustor thinks you'll pass.

Regarding the German system, well it's obviously much better run and yes, the road users are most probably allot safer and informed. With our system if they are going to be keeping provisionals on an average one year waiting list, then you have to expect that these drivers will want to get as much practice within that year.

In most cases it will be their first year, where they will be paying ridiculous amounts for insurance and want to get the most out of that insurance. To avoid paying such insurance again for the second year, and coming years, they will want to pass their test. If they fail, they can't re take it within a few weeks. It will take another year. If I was to only drive in the company of a fully licensed driver for the past year, I doubt I would have the opportunity to drive even 1 thousand miles. This means less experience, less chance of passing a test I've been in a 1 year queue for. If i fail, I'll go back to the end of that queue.

I'd be all for the German system, it sounds much better, you have the opportunity to get a full license within about 10 weeks from the first time you start driving, the insurance is much cheaper and of course, the roads much safer. I'm just adapting to my environment and countries system.


Now regarding the 75 Zone, if you read your "make the change" leaflet, or whatever it was called, that you should have got through your letterbox, you will see 120km=75m. I wonder if I had a full license would I have ignored it :rolleyes: Maybe your one of the people I'm referring to doing 70 in the overtaking 75 lane on the motorways?

Imposter

cormie wrote:

Now regarding the 75 Zone, if you read your "make the change" leaflet, or whatever it was called, that you should have got through your letterbox, you will see 120km=75m. I wonder if I had a full license would I have ignored it :rolleyes: Maybe your one of the people I'm referring to doing 70 in the overtaking 75 lane on the motorways?

I live in Austria so I never got the leaflet
Now that I think about it I do remember hearing about the limit rising to 120, so sorry about that. But then again you shouldn't be there in the first place (driving at least)!

Seth Brundle

PlayaFlow wrote:

30-6 Shooter , youre absolutley right word for word . way to big of a deal is made of all this crap. U either can drive or u cant , who gives a crap bout L-plates and all prov , just apply for your full and and hope u get it just to shut evryone up.

hmm, 30-6 zooms past a junction @ 80mph where gardai are trying to exit. A potentially fatal accident narrowly avoided? - I think so!
Then PlayaFlow comes on here praising this and then states that 30-6 should apply and hope to pass the test.
Am I right in thinking there si something wrong with the logic here?

cormie

Imposter wrote:

I live in Austria so I never got the leaflet
Now that I think about it I do remember hearing about the limit rising to 120, so sorry about that.

No problem

But then again you shouldn't be there in the first place (driving at least)!

By law yes, but I've explained my reasons I think this shouldn't be the case. It shouldnt be as black and white as if it's against the law, you shouldn't do it.

Bri

cormie wrote:

Oh, that was me too I thought you were talking about the stopping to pick my friend up one... which as I said, once I realised it was wrong, I stopped doing it and met the guy at the different point suggested to me. So Bri, I respect everyones oppinions, the more I get the better, so don't abandon the forums for the likes of my previous questions. I'm only trying to make myself safer so if and when we do cross paths, I wont crash into you :rolleyes: Edit: regarding the overtaking, I realise the dangers involved and even though I'm very cautious about getting into the same situation.

Your progressive learning points out exatly why 1st time provisionals shouldn't drive on their own, even if they think they're safe. It's my belief that the law should be fully enforced and I for one am glad I stuck to it with hindsight.

By the by, I knew of someone who wrote their application unclearly, got a 1st prov. with a typo and got it corrected = 2nd licence with no need for a fully licensed driver in the car.

vector

I've been waiting for a test for 7.5 months for the test and still waiting, I carry the "Thank you for your application" letter from last year in the glovebox when driving on my own.

jhegarty

cormie wrote:

Regarding the German system, well it's obviously much better run and yes, the road users are most probably allot safer and informed. With our system if they are going to be keeping provisionals on an average one year waiting list, then you have to expect that these drivers will want to get as much practice within that year.

In most cases it will be their first year, where they will be paying ridiculous amounts for insurance and want to get the most out of that insurance. To avoid paying such insurance again for the second year, and coming years, they will want to pass their test. If they fail, they can't re take it within a few weeks. It will take another year. If I was to only drive in the company of a fully licensed driver for the past year, I doubt I would have the opportunity to drive even 1 thousand miles. This means less experience, less chance of passing a test I've been in a 1 year queue for. If i fail, I'll go back to the end of that queue.

I'd be all for the German system, it sounds much better, you have the opportunity to get a full license within about 10 weeks from the first time you start driving, the insurance is much cheaper and of course, the roads much safer. I'm just adapting to my environment and countries system.


Now regarding the 75 Zone, if you read your "make the change" leaflet, or whatever it was called, that you should have got through your letterbox, you will see 120km=75m. I wonder if I had a full license would I have ignored it :rolleyes: Maybe your one of the people I'm referring to doing 70 in the overtaking 75 lane on the motorways?

i second that...

halkar

Cormie, with your 20k miles theory, I should get my full license on post with some Amazon.co vouchers thrown in I have been driving over 30k a year for the past 10 years plus thousands of miles of driving abroad (I have full license from no EU for 15 years) with no claims. I never took my L plate off and does not look like it will be coming down anytime soon either Anyway I am waiting for test again and if i fail again I will take the tester to Wicklow mountains
Drive safe, don't be an @ss hole, respect others and you be fine. There are more dangerous drivers with full license than on provisionals.

vector

If I may make an aside...

If you don't want to attract the attention of the gardai then drive an "invisible" car

Start driving a
Dark coloured, Ford Modeo 04-D, no hubcaps

cormie

halkar wrote:

Cormie, with your 20k miles theory, I should get my full license on post with some Amazon.co vouchers thrown in I have been driving over 30k a year for the past 10 years plus thousands of miles of driving abroad (I have full license from no EU for 15 years) with no claims. I never took my L plate off and does not look like it will be coming down anytime soon either Anyway I am waiting for test again and if i fail again I will take the tester to Wicklow mountains
Drive safe, don't be an @ss hole, respect others and you be fine. There are more dangerous drivers with full license than on provisionals.

Are you saying you do or don't have a full license? 10 years is quite a long time for you not to have passed your test :eek: There are some people who just can't adapt to it I suppose. It's the same with everything, there will always be someone who can't adapt to it. I even know some fully licensed drivers who didn't know your supposed to indicate coming onto a round-about (if your taking the 4th exit for example).

Bri, that typo story is crazy! That's another messed up part of the rules really though, it's ok for someone to drive alone just because they are on their second provisional license. So in theory, your friend was considered to be safe enough to drive alone in the eyes of the law, even though she may have only been on the roads for a month, not even. It's also saying your a safer driver when on your 2nd provisional as to when your on your 3rd. Obviously, the majority of people on their 3rd have failed the test at least once. But when they are on their 2nd provisional, through the eyes of the law, they are seen safer to be driving on their own than somebody who has passed their IAM ignition test