Is it bad if you get caught driving by yourself on your 1st provisional?

MrPudding

cormie wrote:

Well the system we have now is obviously in shambles.

No excuse.

cormie wrote:

I'm not suggesting scrap provisional licenses, I'm suggesting have different grades of licenses.

Like what? How about full, provisional & really provisional?

MrP

sci0x

I was so unlucky. It was like my 2nd time driving on the road with my 1st prov and i got caught. I had a trailer in the back, no L plates or nothing and he let me off. I got caught a couple of weeks after that on Tralee road. Left me off as well

cormie

I'm only making suggestions here, as we all know, the current system has its flaws. I think 3 grades could work though.

Theory and car knowledge (oil checking etc test)
1-Must be accompanied at all times, must not drive on motorway etc

Theory and car knowledge test 2, driving test
2-Allowed to drive solo, not on motorways/abroad

Theory and car knowledge test 3, final driving test
3-All restrictions lifted. Full license granted.


This way people would be more inclined to get proper lessons, learn the rules of the road properly and be more likely to pass test 2. This would then mean more people would pass test 3 which would probably free up allot of waiting lists etc. If it was enforced properly of course.



About feeling safe, there is a certain point as to which you believe you are capable of have the responsibility to drive solo.

bonzai bob

can someone please provide links that prove provisional drivers are the worst on the roads? i'm not saying we're all good drivers, i'm saying that not all fully licenced drivers are good drivers.

MrPudding

cormie wrote:

I'm only making suggestions here, as we all know, the current system has its flaws. I think 3 grades could work though.

What makes you think people would not ignore the new system?

cormie wrote:

Theory and car knowledge (oil checking etc test)
1-Must be accompanied at all times, must not drive on motorway etc

Theory and car knowledge test 2, driving test
2-Allowed to drive solo, not on motorways/abroad

Theory and car knowledge test 3, final driving test
3-All restrictions lifted. Full license granted.


This way people would be more inclined to get proper lessons, learn the rules of the road properly and be more likely to pass test 2. This would then mean more people would pass test 3 which would probably free up allot of waiting lists etc. If it was enforced properly of course.

If we can't even get one test organised what makes you think we can magically sort 2 out.

cormie wrote:

About feeling safe, there is a certain point as to which you believe you are capable of have the responsibility to drive solo.

You may very well believe it, my point is you are not qualified to make that determination. There is a system in place for that. It is called the driving test. I have met many people who thought they were safe, yet they keep failing a driving test and when you get in a car with them it woul dput the fear of God into you.

MrP

cormie

What makes you think people would not ignore the new system?

Because it would be heavily inforced and rightly so, if somebody was caught driving alone without passing test 2, they would receive high points high fine, and garda wouldn't let anyone away with it because they are obviously a big danger. You can't really say the same for everyone on provisionals today

If we can't even get one test organised what makes you think we can magically sort 2 out.

Because it should make people cop on more and dedicate more time to it, ask around, allot of people who take the theory test don't even read the book :rolleyes: With this new system, people are going to want to be able to drive solo and not risk huge amount of points/fine (where it's only tiny for provisionals today) and they will learn what they have to and get proper lessons too. There would be much more of an emphasis to do so anyway.

You may very well believe it, my point is you are not qualified to make that determination. There is a system in place for that. It is called the driving test. I have met many people who thought they were safe, yet they keep failing a driving test and when you get in a car with them it woul dput the fear of God into you.

MrP

In the eyes of the law I'm not qualified to make that determination, yes

edmund_f

i vote we get the insurance companies to sort out the bill for the driving tests. Introduce a decent test, akin to the German test (almost like getting your private pilots license). The insurance companies are making enough money off us, and are the first to point to bad driver training (second to boy racers of course) as causing high preimums.

If this is such a big deal, why not just sort it, other countries have done it, it is not as if we are trying to invent the wheel here. The only excuse i can see for the delays in getting these problems fixed is too many people are making too much money.

MrPudding

bonzai bob wrote:

can someone please provide links that prove provisional drivers are the worst on the roads? i'm not saying we're all good drivers, i'm saying that not all fully licenced drivers are good drivers.

No-one is saying that fully licensed drivers are all good. It is quite obvious that they are not. The fact remains that there has to be a method of deciding whether or not a person is fit to drive a car on public roads.

Do you suggest that we have a free for all? Personally I think it is worth inconveniencing what ever provisional drivers that think they are good enough at driving to keep the ones that aren’t off the road.

I appreciate that the current test is a joke. A joke for what it tests and how long you have to wait. But, it is all there is. Inconveniencing proficient drivers that have not sat the test yet (for whatever reason) is not the purpose of the driving unaccompanied law, it is just a side effect.

I know 3 people personally that say they are good and safe drivers, 2 of them have failed the test several times and the other hasn’t done one as he does not see the point.

In an ideal world we would have an amazing public transport system that would mean everyone could get wherever they want with no inconvenience. In this world we would also have a comprehensive driver education programme that starts in school by teaching children how to be safe road users, Initially as pedestrian and cyclists and eventually as motorists. This would be followed up by a comprehensive test, with little or no waiting, that would actually test skills and ensure that people that pass know what they are doing. Finally you would need to recertify or be removed from the road. But hey, we live in a far from ideal world so we will just have to deal with what we have.

MrP

Boggle

@Cormie: I can't honestly make that judgement as I have never seen the hib prov test. It doesn't constitute a national test and definitely does not permit you to legally drive on your own but who knows, it may be a better test than the national one.

You may very well believe it, my point is you are not qualified to make that determination. There is a system in place for that. It is called the driving test. I have met many people who thought they were safe, yet they keep failing a driving test and when you get in a car with them it woul dput the fear of God into you.

And the worst driver I know, passed his test first time. It is understandable that people are doubtful of the current system...

can someone please provide links that prove provisional drivers are the worst on the roads? i'm not saying we're all good drivers, i'm saying that not all fully licenced drivers are good drivers.

Don't think it existes in any legitimate format. The gards don't even have this figure for road fatalities and the insurance co's only show you the data they want you to see... (they protect their core data vigorously)

Capt'n Midnight

cormie wrote:

Of course there should be another kind of test (that had a weeks waiting list lets say) to determine if your safe to drive solo or not. The problem is the waiting times etc.

If there was a pre-test, then the law would be enforced harder and those who haven't passed the pre-test would more than likely be prosecuted.

FFS - you are describing the driving test,

Our test is easy compared to most other EU countries and you want something even easier - lets look at our nearest neighbour then - If you pass your test up north, for the first year you MUST display R letters aren't allowed on motorways or even drive above 50Mph (80Kpm) - and I think that is a bloody brilliant idea, not to let people go flat out till they get some experiance.

Politicians might say it would not be possible to set more test centres but NCT tests take about the same time and cost the same amount as a driving test, and about 1/3rd of the cars on the roads are tested every year and you have to do a retest within two weeks. If there was a political will to do it the same could be done for driver testing.

If they were to enforce current laws on unaccomanied drivers it would relieve a lot of traffic congestion in the cities and would benefit everyone apart from those driving illegally. I would argue that my premiums are high because insurance companies here are paying out claims despite stating on the back of the policy that the driver must hold a valid license for the vehicle, and a provisional license is not valid on motorways...

Personally I'd like spot checks on the M50 perhaps at the toll bridge and anyone not qualified to drive on it to be told park the car and start walking.

Arguing about the merits of untested drivers is a complete waste of time, the problem is that the maximum waiting time is over one month.

Don't hold your breath the last time any govt did anything about driving test times was the amnesty back in 1979...

cormie

If you see from my post describing the 3 different tests, I think it could be an option to get things going smoother. I don't want it to be easier, I want it to be harder. For my own safety and that of others.

I think the Ignition cert should hold some sort of permit to allow you to drive solo anyway. That would solve allot of the trouble.

I always wondered why they didn't do spot checks at the toll bridge myself :rolleyes: Good job;) The only time a garda car approached me at the toll bridge was from behind flashing his sirens, I got free through the toll to let him past, yeeehaw!!! haha.

PlayaFlow

Ah shut up !!cormie i bet you , that youre a crap driver . if i dropped you in the middle of paris in rush-hour youd be eaten alive u litlle pussy granny driver . I bet u that youre one of those that concentrates more on indicating left and then right when going straight through a roundabout instead of watchin your sides so as not to scrape the car beside you and haveing them watch you and avoid u while ur oblivious in your reasonable 02-D toyota yaris, grrrrrrrr.

Stop being such a wimp , and trying to sound smart with all your theories. i ve been drving solo sonce 17 (3yrs) , got my full also at 17 . youre either born with a gift and more importantly FEEL for driving or your not and you just now that you have to clutch,gera,gas, brake.

if i gave u a car and told you to drive to germany when u were 18(like i did) , i'd be surprised if u made it out of your housing estate.

Imposter

The standard of the test in Ireland is probably harder than in a lot of other countries. When I say harder I mean that the testers are very picky and don't use discretion all that much. The trouble is people don't learn properly and that imo explains the high failure rate.

A the Capt'n said waiting times need to be slashed.

Imo provisional licenses should be scrapped (once wait times are sorted give it 1 year) and learners should learn only through certified driving schools.

Banning new licensees from motorways would not be a good idea imo, as in some cases it's better to have these drivers on motorways than gonig through towns. Plus some motorways (M50) are the only realistic route to travel in certain cases. I would however bring in a 0.1 limit on alcohol in the bloodstream for all new licensees, like there is here in Austria. It means that new drivers don't even comtemplate drinking for the first 2 years and generally this habit pays off in later years too.

Padraig Mor

PlayaFlow wrote:

I bet u that youre one of those that concentrates more on indicating left and then right when going straight through a roundabout
.

You might want to have a read of the Rules of the Road there......and perhaps edit your post so as not to look like a fool.

cormie

PlayaFlow wrote:

Ah shut up !!cormie i bet you , that youre a crap driver . if i dropped you in the middle of paris in rush-hour youd be eaten alive u litlle pussy granny driver . I bet u that youre one of those that concentrates more on indicating left and then right when going straight through a roundabout instead of watchin your sides so as not to scrape the car beside you and haveing them watch you and avoid u while ur oblivious in your reasonable 02-D toyota yaris, grrrrrrrr.

Stop being such a wimp , and trying to sound smart with all your theories. i ve been drving solo sonce 17 (3yrs) , got my full also at 17 . youre either born with a gift and more importantly FEEL for driving or your not and you just now that you have to clutch,gera,gas, brake.

if i gave u a car and told you to drive to germany when u were 18(like i did) , i'd be surprised if u made it out of your housing estate.

What's with that post? First of all, I drive a 96 Green Micra, much more of a grannies car than a Yaris and when do you ever indicate left and then right when going straight through a round-about? :rolleyes:

I don't know where you're getting your theories from really. You have no idea what I'm like in a car so why bother guessing, it's pointless, especially if what you guess is bogus. Any way, part of what your saying is backing up what I was initially saying. There are drivers who may be on a provisional who have this "feel" or "gift". You were lucky to get your full test when you were 17. I'm assuming you either knew the right person or else you got a car the minute you turned 17 and you applied straight away for the full test?

I would have loved to have had the opportunity to drive to Germany, or to drive in France.

So what car do you drive? How did you save up for it when you were 16? Were you not still in school? And insurance must have been hell for you to pay at 17 too?

bonzai bob

PlayaFlow wrote:

Ah shut up !!cormie i bet you , that youre a crap driver . if i dropped you in the middle of paris in rush-hour youd be eaten alive u litlle pussy granny driver . I bet u that youre one of those that concentrates more on indicating left and then right when going straight through a roundabout instead of watchin your sides so as not to scrape the car beside you and haveing them watch you and avoid u while ur oblivious in your reasonable 02-D toyota yaris, grrrrrrrr.

Stop being such a wimp , and trying to sound smart with all your theories. i ve been drving solo sonce 17 (3yrs) , got my full also at 17 . youre either born with a gift and more importantly FEEL for driving or your not and you just now that you have to clutch,gera,gas, brake.

if i gave u a car and told you to drive to germany when u were 18(like i did) , i'd be surprised if u made it out of your housing estate.

Man, you sound like a dumbass, say it with me... D.U.M.B.A.S.S

*EDIT* Mods, for the record, i didn't actually call him a dumbass, i said he sounded like one.

LFCFan

There's no point making the test harder if a driver who fails can just jump back in their car and drive off on a provisional license. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the driving test. Like someone said above, if the political will was there they could easily cut waiting times for the driving test. Set up temporary test centres wherever they can, hire a crap load of testers (qualified instructors could do it as a part time job), get the waiting list down and in the meantime provide the permanent centres that are needed. The wait for a test should be no more that 2 weeks. In the States you just walk into the DMV, do a theory test, usually on computer, pass this and then do your driving test and get your license there and then. If you fail, you can come back the next day. The difference there is that kids are taught to drive in school and there are all sorts of restrictions on them when they are driving on a learners permit and these are enforced by a dedicated traffic police.

There should be Driver Ed. in school here too. If they need to make room for it, get rid of Religious Studies as it's the greatest waste of time and resources in school which would be much better served by teaching kids how to be safe on the roads!

Has anyone even noticed an increase in Garda activity on the roads since the new Traffic Corp was set up? I saw one of the Traffic Corp cars in Drogheda one day before they became active. Nothing since!

masteire

What about being on a 1st provisional and driving on a motorway - anyone experienced the gardai here?

bonzai bob

masteire wrote:

What about being on a 1st provisional and driving on a motorway - anyone experienced the gardai here?

Nope, but i have seen someone driving on the M50 with their L plates up and the guards were behind them but did nothing.

MrPudding

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

FFS - you are describing the driving test,

Our test is easy compared to most other EU countries and you want something even easier - lets look at our nearest neighbour then - If you pass your test up north, for the first year you MUST display R letters aren't allowed on motorways or even drive above 50Mph (80Kpm) - and I think that is a bloody brilliant idea, not to let people go flat out till they get some experiance.

Almost right. It is 45Mph, unless they have changed it very recently, and "R" drivers are allowed on the motorways (still restricted to 45Mph.)

There is a fine and restricted driving period extension for not displaying "R" plates. Repeat offenders will get a ban.

MrP

cormie

bonzai bob wrote:

Nope, but i have seen someone driving on the M50 with their L plates up and the guards were behind them but did nothing.

I've seen that too. Infact, I've seen MANY cars with L plates on the M50. Best bet is to take them down and drive invisible, keep to the limits, don't look like a learner. Don't speed, don't drive slowly.

MrPudding, how would you know about the North with your thick Wicklow accent

xzodia

driving on the motorway on any provisional is not allowed but the cops dont seem to bother with it as alot of times there will be more than one person that will be allowed to drive the car IE. it could be your parents car and your on the insurance, so as long as you dont act stupid they dont tend to pull you over

declanoneill

xzodia wrote:

driving on the motorway on any provisional is not allowed but the cops dont seem to bother with it as alot of times there will be more than one person that will be allowed to drive the car IE. it could be your parents car and your on the insurance, so as long as you dont act stupid they dont tend to pull you over

On that note, I know this has been asked before but I don't think it was answered, is it illegal to drive with L plates when you have your full licence?

xzodia

you are supposed to take them down but unless you get a cop on a bad day most wont pull you in for it just tell you to take them down

Alun

declanoneill wrote:

On that note, I know this has been asked before but I don't think it was answered, is it illegal to drive with L plates when you have your full licence?

Yes, it is, but I'm not sure why exactly. I suppose in a hypothetical country where the police actually do their job properly and stop people driving on their own with L plates and prosecute them, that it could be construed as wasting police time.

MrPudding

cormie wrote:

MrPudding, how would you know about the North with your thick Wicklow accent

I normally get Scottish, never been accused of being from Wicklow before.

MrP

cormie

MrPudding wrote:

I normally get Scottish, never been accused of being from Wicklow before.

MrP

I was joking :rolleyes: I knew it was a northern accent. Don't worry, I get Australian sometimes :eek:

angeldelight

xzodia wrote:

you are supposed to take them down but unless you get a cop on a bad day most wont pull you in for it just tell you to take them down

Just interested is this really true, any links? Just curious cause I have L-plates on my dad's car and he certainly doesn't take them off every morning before he drives to work...

PlayaFlow

ok a few points:
yes i know that indicating LEFT&RIGHT when going straight through a roundabout is the rule, but waht bugs me are those oblivious drivers that think this is most important , ...instead of being aware of other exiting cars and cars beside them, it means u have to watch for them not to scrape of you.
you know the type : when ur stuck behind them and they cant even see you in the mirror and theyre driving parrallel to a car in the lane beside them at the same speed, and then indicate like 2 miles before takin an exit , and youre like : "GO FOR F***S SAKE, YOU FECKIN RETARD" in ur reaonably priced 02 d supermini with feckin L plates.

cormie ,
im sorry i took it out on you , its just that i was drivin from college and had to do a F***g slalom around all the cars on the M50 , feckin retards ( DO they not know that the speed limit is UP TO 120kmh , and both lanes are moving at 90kmh driving side by side!!! , grrrrr)

to answer ur Q's:
i drive a Mitsubishi Colt 1.3 (un modded, just a nice set of rims)

i got it 1 month before my 17th birthday, with money i save since i was 15 ( i paid 1,400)

and yes ur right ,i applied for my full asap when i was 17

and my dad paid my insurance for first two yrs ( 6th year and 1st yr college)

LFCFan

PlayaFlow wrote:

ok a few points:
yes i know that indicating LEFT&RIGHT when going straight through a roundabout is the rule

But it's not the Rule. You never indicate left & right when going straight through. You enter the roundabout and when you've passed the first exit on the left, you then indicate left to exit at the second exit (which in the majority of cases is straight through the roundabout). Indicating right never comes into it.