Laser Cards...WTF

RuggieBear

Apologies if this moan has been posted before....

I enquired about getting a laser card today while opening a new account....and was basically told that i would not be eligible for one until i had been with this bank for a couple of months or showed them six months previous account details....WTF?

I asked them why and was told that the Laser card is "considered a a form of credit". Now forgive me if i'm wrong but laser is a ****ing debit card is it not!!! (I admit i am open to correction here), which would allow me to take the money already in my account out :eek:

I thought Laser was the Irish version of Switch in the UK. I got a switch/atm card automatically when i opened an account in Britain a few years ago....Seemingly you can get a debit card over the age of 13 in England but not if you are 26 and have a steady income in Ireland.

Sometimes i wonder about this country....

Kevin_rc_ie

I don't think the debit card actually checks if u have the money in your account when you use it. It will go into overdraw if funds are not available. Could be wrong though.

Guy:Incognito

Together with an overdraft it could be considered a form of credit I suppose. afaik you are credit checked when applying for one (not 100% on that, open to correction)

Kevin_rc_ie

If you don't actually have any credit problems just go to your branch and insist on speaking to some ppl higher up the chain, they should make it happen for you. Maybe bring some statements from your previous branch.....

RuggieBear

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

I don't think the debit card actually checks if u have the money in your account when you use it. It will go into overdraw if funds are not available. Could be wrong though.

Ah...that might explain it. Still ****ing retarded imo....but that does kinda make sense

kasintahan

I was issued one immediately with new NIB FREEBANK A/C. I had no job (didn't tell them) but I had P60 and recent wage slip.

seanogal

In Ireland at the moment the laser card is also a cheque guarantee card (with AIB anyway).They are combined on the one card.It is a dr and a cr card at the same time.

LFCFan

Lazer Cards for most banks are a Cheque Gaurantee card aswell up to the value of €127 so I guess they are kind of a form of Credit as you could still use it if you've no money in your account. Could be wrong but I've used mine on a couple of occassions without realising I was overdrawn and it still went through!

nlgbbbblth

a) some laser transactions, if they are within the shop's floor limit, will go through even if you have insufficient funds in your account

b) coupled with this is the fact that it is also a cheque guarantee card (up to €130) so in theory you could order a cheque book (which contains 25 cheques), purchase goods in a variety of retail outlets to the value of €3,250 (€130 x 25) without having any money in your account to meet the cheques.

end result being that the Bank is stuck with a debt of €3,250 as it is obliged to honour all the cheques

which means that they are entitled to see if you are a trustworthy individual before issuing the card.

Banjo013

The banking system is a total fu**ing mystery in this country. Personally I haven't a clue how it works or why - despite being a customer of some form or other for years.

Just regarding the cheque guarantee card bit - any time I've ever paid by cheque the Laser card gets swiped anyway. Apparently one of those "Auth Code" things comes back on the swipy thing, which the shop assistant writes on the back of the cheque. I assumed that this swiping checks to make sure the funds are there, and the issuance of an Auth Code means funds to the value of the cheque are frozen in the account to meet the cheque when it's presented. Am I wrong/right ?

If I'm right, then there's no way I could fly off around town spending €130 in fifty different shops not having any money in my account, because that gets checked each time the card is swiped. Banks aren't that dumn you know - to allow something like that to happen !

Anyway the above dispenses with the theory that it's possible to get credit on a Laser card by using a cheque book. I don't believe either that when using Laser to pay something your account isn't checked to make sure the funds are there. Again one of these "Auth Code" things is generated, making sure money is there to meet the transaction.

Of course I'm perfectly open to anyone who knows better how all this works telling me what I've said is a load of b****x. But please, if you're going to do that make sure you do know what you're talking about, not just speculating like I am !

tk123

When I got mine they automatically gave me an overdraft. The laser transactions don't always get taken out of your account straight away also if it's a Meastro you can use it abroad/online which wouldn't go out of the account straight away eith so that would be "credit" too...I thinks... Its stupid thou cos I had one since I was a jobless student!!

nlgbbbblth

Banjo013 wrote:

Just regarding the cheque guarantee card bit - any time I've ever paid by cheque the Laser card gets swiped anyway. Apparently one of those "Auth Code" things comes back on the swipy thing, which the shop assistant writes on the back of the cheque. I assumed that this swiping checks to make sure the funds are there, and the issuance of an Auth Code means funds to the value of the cheque are frozen in the account to meet the cheque when it's presented. Am I wrong/right ?

It is not necessary to swipe the card when paying by cheque, however all that this does is encode the cheque card no and expiry date on the back of the cheque. Saves the shop assistant from writing it on. It does not give an authorisation code.
Under no circumstances are funds "frozen in the account to meet the cheque when it is presented". This would be totally impractical. For starters there is no obligation on the retailer to lodge the cheque straightaway - they have six months in which to do so.

Banjo013 wrote:

I don't believe either that when using Laser to pay something your account isn't checked to make sure the funds are there. Again one of these "Auth Code" things is generated, making sure money is there to meet the transaction.

see comment re floor limits. Anyway the laser debit is not posted to your account immediately - which means you can go to an ATM and withdraw monies a few minutes later. And then a couple of days later you're overdrawn - or have "forced credit". Banks can do nothing with "forced credit". Just write to you nicely hoping you'll regularise the account.

Banjo013 wrote:

Of course I'm perfectly open to anyone who knows better how all this works telling me what I've said is a load of b****x. But please, if you're going to do that make sure you do know what you're talking about, not just speculating like I am !

I think I know what I am talking about.

Our man in Havana

see comment re floor limits. Anyway the laser debit is not posted to your account immediately - which means you can go to an ATM and withdraw monies a few minutes later. And then a couple of days later you're overdrawn - or have "forced credit". Banks can do nothing with "forced credit". Just write to you nicely hoping you'll regularise the account.

Cancel laser card?

Skyuser

Laser is form of CASH! not credit. MBNA told me when paying my account I could pay in post office by cash or Laser, as Laser is a form of cash. If the money is not in your account, the card will be rejected at checkout unless you have an overdraft. But an overdraft is decided on your account and has nothing to do with the Laser card.
I got a Laser card a few years ago before I had a credit card, they just gave me one when I asked for it. You should insist on it or tell them you'll close your account.

Our man in Havana

Nope, you can well drive your self up to 1000 euro overdrawn with laser easily. As it doesnt check your account before authourising. Similar to the check book senario.

Elmo

AIB give you ODs for Direct Debit and Laser Transactions but charge you 4.50 for the facility if you haven't got an OD set up on your Account.

AIB will give a student a credit card but won't give a student a laser card.

Tom Dunne

Bond-007 wrote:

Nope, you can well drive your self up to 1000 euro overdrawn with laser easily. As it doesnt check your account before authourising. Similar to the check book senario.

I beg to differ.

I know for a fact several times I have been in my overdraft, I have had Laser card transactions denied. I could still go to the ATM (with the same card) and withdraw money.

I'm with Ulsterbank.

Nevyn

Laser card transaction that happen over the weekend (after 6 on a Friday until 9am on a Monday) often will not be settled ie the money removed from your account until your bank opens on the Monday so you can go over the ammount in your account easily.

If a shop has a policy of not checking against your account for small transactions (30 to 50 euros) you can also go over the ammount in your bank account as all banking transactions are not finalised until 4m on a weekday and those over the weekend wait until monday morning.

In all it is possible to get into a couple hundred of euros debt over a weekend
using a laser card.

RuggieBear

Perhaps i just thought it was exactly like switch (which seems to be a far superior system), when it's not.

It's such a pain in the arse if you get used to using a switch card in uk: accepted everywhere, cash back, no extra charges, if you don't have the money it wont, the transaction will not go threw....

sounds like a ****ty technongy issue to me. Why are our banks still in the ****ing dark ages..?

nlgbbbblth

RuggieBear wrote:

Perhaps i just thought it was exactly like switch (which seems to be a far superior system), when it's not.

It's such a pain in the arse if you get used to using a switch card in uk: accepted everywhere, cash back, no extra charges, if you don't have the money it wont, the transaction will not go threw....

sounds like a ****ty technongy issue to me. Why are our banks still in the ****ing dark ages..?

people will complain if transactions are declined when they have insufficient funds
people complain if transactions are authorised when they have insufficient funds

impossible to please everyone

RuggieBear

nlgbbbblth wrote:

people will complain if transactions are declined when they have insufficient funds
people complain if transactions are authorised when they have insufficient funds

impossible to please everyone

true....

but i'm complaining about a debit card being considered a form of credit...i just want to spend my own money more easily. Perhaps if i had never used switch i'd think fair enough but i have and i'm feeling very let down that my country can't match the uk for ease of use and simplicity

Imposter

The problem is that Laser is an Irish solution to an already solved problem, probably dreamt up by Iriah banks to increase their already substantial [strike]customer rip-offs[/strike] profits. I couldn't get a Laser card as a student in Ireland but a CC was no problem! That doesn't make sense. Similarly I got a Maestro enabled card when I opened an account here in Austria without questino (as does everyone no matter how young they are afaik). Maestro being a standard for debit cards that is recognised worldwide.

deRanged

Imposter wrote:

I couldn't get a Laser card as a student in Ireland but a CC was no problem! That doesn't make sense.

When I started my PhD I asked about changing to a student a/c for free fees. They told me I could do that no problem, but that I then couldn't have a laser card. At the same time as I was being told this, they were preparing my gold credit card, on which there were no restrictions.
As I walked off they told me that if I got a USIT card I could then get
a laser card on my student a/c, plus they started offering me loans!

This was all BOI btw.

LFCFan

I've long since given up trying to figure out where banks get their policies from. Most of them from their ass by the looks of things

fintan

The majority of laser transactions under €100 are not checked to see if the funds are in the account.

englander

Moving over from England to start a well paid job in Ireland - I was in a spin of frustration trying to set up bank details with Bank of Ireland.

I could not get a cheque book or laser card (or credit card) without any financial history (my UK accounts were not acceptable proof .....WTF !). They would require 6 months of financial history in Ireland !

I then could not believe BoI were (and still do) charge for every transaction - even though I am in (lots of) credit ! How can people go along with this ?

I moved to Ulsterbank.
No problems getting laser card/credit card/ cheque book/ mortgage !

And you dont pay through the nose for every transaction.

Coming from UK, I can't believe people happily (well, they dont change banks !) pay their bank these fees even though the bank is making wads of cash from your money !!!

I was under the impression that the laser transation was authorised with your bank account at time of payment at the till. I know switch used to work like that.

BuffyBot

Moving over from England to start a well paid job in Ireland - I was in a spin of frustration trying to set up bank details with Bank of Ireland.

Moving to the UK from Ireland is no banking picnic either, trust me. The banks there don't take into account your Irish financial history - because they can't check it. Same applies for Irish banks, they can't check your UK history. Took me a while (and a change of bank) to get a proper overdraft, decent debit card, and credit card with a decent limit.

Coming from UK, I can't believe people happily (well, they dont change banks !) pay their bank these fees

Up until recently, there wasn't much choice. Only now, with the introduction of easy switching has the market started to move. With Bank of Scotland (Ireland) in the process of opening a branch network and offering a range of retail banking products, things should change even more in the near future.

RuggieBear

acyaully just on the whole moving from england lark....my girlie has just moved over from England....she can't believe that banks charge for everything here. She actually just can't comprehend it at all....and the fact everyone seems to take it for normal.

:mad: What a ****ing cartel

Elmo

Permanent TSB don't charge anything with there new accounts. anyone got one?

I suppose if BOS get up and running, they will do the same. And hopeful all the rest of them will follow suit.

RuggieBear

Elmo wrote:

Permanent TSB don't charge anything with there new accounts. anyone got one?

.

It was PTSB i was talking to about opening a new account.

parsi

RuggieBear wrote:

acyaully just on the whole moving from england lark....my girlie has just moved over from England....she can't believe that banks charge for everything here. She actually just can't comprehend it at all....and the fact everyone seems to take it for normal.

:mad: What a ****ing cartel

Strange.. I had a buddy who worked in the Irish banking system and then went to the UK system and he was amazed at how much the UK customers put up with compared to his Irish customers...