The race for the 4th Champions League spot

Dub13

Liverpool

---

Spurs (h)
Portsmouth (a)
Palace (a)
Borro (h)
Arsenal (a)
Villa (h)

Everton

---

ManU (h)
Birmingham (h)
Fulham (a)
Newcastle (h)
Arsenal (a)
Bolton (a)


P GD PTS
4 Everton 32 6 54
5 Liverpool 32 12 50

KdjaCL

Should add Bolton to that.

                            pld     gd      pts
4  	Everton  	32  	6  	54
5 	Liverpool 	 32 	12 	50
6 	Bolton 	         32 	5 	 49

Pool have CL to contend with and that will be a distraction (as others have proved in the past)

Bolton have to play everton last game of season.
Everton also have Man utd and Arse to play.

Bolton only have Chelsea and Everton from top half of table to play

kdjac

PHB

Indeed, I think it will be Bolton.
I honastly don't think Liverpool can catch them, they just have no consistancy whatsoever.
Especially since this weekend they will probably lose, as they always seem to after the CL games. ALso since Spurs are playing fantastic lately.

Portsmouth(a)- Should win it
Palace (a) - Should win it, although Palace are fighting for survival
Borro (h) - Tough game, could win it or, a draw proly
Arsenal (a) - I think a loss is likely here, Highbury ain't so easy to win at
Villa (h) - Should win it

I think they will get 10/12 points out of 18

Everton:

ManU- Tough game, loss
Birmingham - Tough game, win or draw
Fulham - Should win
Newcastle - Should win it, but if Newcaslte show up, they will win, which they might
Arsenal - Tough game, loss

Generous 9 out of 15 imo

Bolton on the other hand could easily take 12 out of 15, assuming they lose to Utd, which is far from a definate.

So on the last day of the season, it should look like this:

4 Everton 31 63
5 Bolton 31 61
6 Liverpool 31 57/59

Liverpool should win the last game, putting them up to either 60/62, which I don't think is enough full stop.
Then Bolton will play Everton for the decider, and I think they will win it.

I think Everton would have had a fantastic season to come 5th, and take a UEFA spot. IMO it would be bad for them to get into the CL< they might try and overreach instead of steady stable build up, like MIddlesborough have done.

Bolton on the other hand should get a shot at the CL, and I think they'd get into the group stages at least, Everton on the other hand, I wouldn't be that sure about.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

since Spurs are playing fantastic lately.

What is your definition of fantastic? 2 single goal (not to mention uninspiring) home wins either side of a draw after a three game on the trot losing streak?

Liverpool have a tough run in, and Im sure will drop points, but I cant see them coming 6th. Everton and Bolton will both also drop points.

If Liverpool dont qualify for the CL, it wont be the end of the world for them. They have had a great season (which is still not over). CL qualification would be great, but at the same time, failure to qualify would leave them in a better position to make a stronger push in the league next year, which is Benetiz's goal.

PHB

Bolton now take 5th
The race is on!
G'wan Big Sam!

jank

Everton for me and dont they have a game in hand??

PHB

yep, but it's against Man Utd.

I'm not being cocky, well no I am, but I wouldn't expect that to be a win for Everton, if they are lucky a draw.

Villain

4 Everton 32 6 54
5 Bolton 33 6 52
6 Liverpool 33 12 51
7 Tottenham 33 4 47
8 Middlesbrough 32 2 45
9 Aston Villa 33 -1 45
10 Charlton 33 -10 44

Very very close now, still wreckon Everton will do it though

WhiteWashMan

Jivin Turkey wrote:

What is your definition of fantastic? 2 single goal (not to mention uninspiring) home wins either side of a draw after a three game on the trot losing streak?

spurs have same record as liverpool for last 11 games as far as im aware.
3 draws, 3 losses, and 5 wins.

im sure you will let me know if im wrong.
while i dont think that is fantastic, the fact is out of spurs, liverpool, bolton and everton, only boloton are performing, with some record like 12 wins out of last 16 games or something.
and have won 8 out of last 9 away games.
now thats a fantastic record.

eirebhoy

Everton v Man Utd - Man U have a great record against Everton.
Everton v Birmingham - Everton should easily win this.
Fulham v Everton - Draw the most likely outcome.
Everton v Newcastle - 50/50 imo.
Arsenal v Everton - Arsenal should win this.
Bolton v Everton - Last match of the season. Home game means Bolton favourites.

Bolton v Southampton - Bolton should win this.
Aston Villa v Bolton - Tough one.
Bolton v Chelsea - Bolton have a fantastic record against the top teams. 50/50.
Portsmouth v Bolton - Should win, not easy though.
Bolton v Everton - as above.


Liverpool who?

mike65

Liverpool to sneak through the middle then! Not looking great though

Portsmouth vs Liverpool
C Palace vs Liverpool
Liverpool vs Middlesbro
Arsenal vs Liverpool
Liverpool vs Aston Villa

Have to win them all really.

Mike.

Jivin Turkey

WhiteWashMan wrote:

spurs have same record as liverpool for last 11 games as far as im aware.
3 draws, 3 losses, and 5 wins.

im sure you will let me know if im wrong.

I dont know, but I never said Liverpool were playing fantastically. I just pointed out that Spurs' form is hardly "fantastic".

eirebhoy

Bolton have gone from 4.6 to 4.1 in the last 15 minutes on Betfair. Pity I didn't get on earlier.

WhiteWashMan

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I dont know, but I never said Liverpool were playing fantastically. I just pointed out that Spurs' form is hardly "fantastic".

and neither did i?

Chucky the tree

WhiteWashMan wrote:

and neither did i?

thats probaly the reason he quoted PHB then.

Portsmouth vs Liverpool
C Palace vs Liverpool
Liverpool vs Middlesbro
Arsenal vs Liverpool
Liverpool vs Aston Villa

i can see us winning all those expect arsenall, would of said we would beat bolton aswell though.


Edit- i dunno where bolton came from i meant to say spurs

Villain

Chucky the tree wrote:

thats probaly the reason he quoted PHB then.

Portsmouth vs Liverpool
C Palace vs Liverpool
Liverpool vs Middlesbro
Arsenal vs Liverpool
Liverpool vs Aston Villa

i can see us winning all those expect arsenal, would of said we would beat bolton aswell though.

They should beat portsmouth but C Palace will be fighting for their lives so I think the pool will do well to beat them. Middlesbrough are fighting for a UEFA Cup spot so they don't be any push overs, Arsenal will probably still be fighting for second and the Polol would do well to come away from Highbury with a point.

Then you have the last game against my beloved Villa, who had a great result today and could be in with a shout for a UEFA Cup spot as well, because I believe if Man U win tomorrow 7th will qualify for the UEFA Cup. Plus

start Keving Keegan mode
I WOULD LOVE IT IF WE BEAT THEM JUST LOVE IT
end Kevin Keegan mode

The Muppet

Jivin Turkey wrote:

If Liverpool dont qualify for the CL, it wont be the end of the world for them. They have had a great season (which is still not over).

Unless Liverpool win the CL they will not have had a great season, they will have had a good run in one competition and been poor in the rest.

I think Everton will hold onto 4th place though Bolton are on an impressive run. Everton may even get the 3 points midweek from United particulaly if United beat Newcastle tomorrow.

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

Unless Liverpool win the CL they will not have had a great season, they will have had a good run in one competition and been poor in the rest.

Dunno know about that new manager an all that, he knows where hes weak and his team is strong. Just a matter of bringing in or 2 players and he has a good 11.


Would say regardless of pools outcome Rafa has had a very good 1st season in PL.

kdjac

The Muppet

He certainly is a good manager and they have been very unlucky with injuries too but to say 5th place or lower would be a "Great Season" for a team with Liverpools standards is streching it a bit IMO.


Raffa has had a good first season and has the team playing like Liverpool should.

mike65

Actually two good cup runs - lets not forget the League Cup...okay lets forget the League Cup!

Mike.

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

a team with Liverpools standards is streching it a bit IMO.

Well they not really in a position to have standards and be expecting to win things. Most Pool fans i know altho would like to win something are quite happy with how this season turned out regardless of winning stuff, the team are trying to play attacking football and wanting to win. Can ask nothing more of your team really.

kdjac

The Muppet

Maybe it's an age thing and the younger Liverpool supporters have lowered their sights but for me Liverpool should always be challenging for the league. They are showing signs of improvement but still lack consistancy. I wouldn't class their season as being " Great" but each to their own.

Ronan|Raven

I would class liverpools season as a season fo change, new manager , new ideas (for the better) some new players, unlucky not to have had his first choice team available for most the season. I would be disapointed not to get 4th spot and a shot at the CL. But for all the turmoil so far with MO leaving, the continuing threat of SG leaving. And a dysmal away record thingsh avent been all so bad. Of course I like lal Liverpool fans want to see them challenging for the league but there is a time for a reality check. The team Rafa took over was never going to win the league. He has a lot of players he doesnt want etc. The man must be given time to do his work and if this means we miss out on CL qualification via the league then these things happen.

Anyway 4th is irrelevant as were gona win the CL

Chucky the tree

The Muppet wrote:

Maybe it's an age thing and the younger Liverpool supporters have lowered their sights but for me Liverpool should always be challenging for the league. They are showing signs of improvement but still lack consistancy. I wouldn't class their season as being " Great" but each to their own.

i disagree. Its not a age thing, its a reality thing. If any liverpool fan(no matter what age) thought we were capable of winning the PL this season, there idiots.

We should always be challenging for the league, but to think it was possilbe this season was plain crazy. Every liverpool fan new this season was going to be a struggle.

We got to the final of the Coca-cola cup, still in the semi's of the CL, still in with a good chance of 4th - In the context of things, its a very good season i think.

PHB

I honastly disagree. I thought when Liverpool brought in Benitez and the signings that were made over the summer, that they would challenge. They have had an injury riddled season, that I think will result in the ultimate failure, the UEFA cup , but next season I can once again see them challenging for the league

Ronan|Raven

It is an awful situation to find yourself wanting united to win on wednesday

I feel dirty!

The Muppet

Ronan|Raven wrote:

It is an awful situation to find yourself wanting united to win on wednesday

I feel dirty!

It's even worse for us United supporters wanting Everton to win but I think we owe them one.

Take it

its important that liverpool come 4th not only for CL place but to attractnew signings aswell i think they HAVE to get 4th and will get forth (fingers crossed)

Dont be at yourself

I think our good Champion's League run, as well as the presence of the likes of Alonso, Morientes (and possibly Gerrard) in our team will do more to entice big-names than 4th place would.

PHB

NekkidBibleMan, somebody, it might have been you can't remember, was saying how Ballack might join Liverpool.

Do you think there is any chance whatsoever that Ballack would leave Bayern Munich who play in CL football, and got the 1/4's, would leave for LIverpool. They need to get this spot, defo to keep Gerrrard at least.

Aquos76

liverpool may be better off without gerrard. Liverpool fans have a read of this

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=330923&cc=5739

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

Unless Liverpool win the CL they will not have had a great season, they will have had a good run in one competition and been poor in the rest.

"Great" was probably a bit of a strong term to use, but the season could still turn out to be great.

What I was trying to say is that not qualifying for the CL would not be that bad. Obviously I want them to for many reasons, money, players, and watching it next year to name a few, and it would be disappointing for them not to. But if they didnt it would leave them in a better position to have a proper go at the league, which is the title I (and Id imagine most fans) really want them to win.

For too long the ethos at Liverpool is that 4th place (and CL qualification) is an achievement, a goal to aim for at the start of the season. Its not at all.
I would take one season out of the competition if it meant that a realistic attempt could be made at the league.

Looking back at RB's first season most Liverpool fans will remember fondly, even if they end up coming 6th (which is still a very real possibility). Its not a case of "younger Liverpool supporters" lowering their standards, its a case of being realistic. If any of them claimed at the beginning of the year they could win the league or even finish in the top two (or even three) they would have been shot down.

PHB

By the way, Soccernet's Insider can reveal the manager in question was one Sir Alex Ferguson and the Manchester United boss is so furious with the press men who ran the story after he asked them to keep it under their hats that he has banned them from his press conferences for the rest of the season.

Gee, Gerrards gone Considering the effort he has gone to to try and get Gerrard, I'd say this means he has given up About time

WhiteWashMan

Chucky the tree wrote:

thats probaly the reason he quoted PHB then.

oh, sorry. can you just point it out for me?

Chucky the tree

WhiteWashMan wrote:

oh, sorry. can you just point it out for me?

huh?

theCzar

I think bolton could snatch it, but they're due a slump. I really hate bolton, and Allardyce is the second moaniest manager after D O'Leary, but better them than liverpool.

Liverpool are jammy, and will probably win the champions league for the simple reason they don't deserve it...

As an evertonian i daren't hope for anything for fear of jinxing it. There's no way i'm disecting games in advance, i'm simply hoping for a point at home to Man Ure.

if we get 4th, Moyes should get manager of the year...

Ardent

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

I think our good Champion's League run, as well as the presence of the likes of Alonso, Morientes (and possibly Gerrard) in our team will do more to entice big-names than 4th place would.

If we don't get fourth - and it's looking unlikely now - no-one is going to want to join us to play in the UEFA cup.

Dont be at yourself

Why?

Liverpool are very clearly a team in the ascendancy, whereas most of the big names in Europe seem to be on the way down. I believe that players are capable of looking more than one year ahead when judging who they're going to join, and many players would jump at the chance to play for a club with the history of liverpool, with our manager Rafa Benitez and with our world class players.

I'm not saying CL football doesn't matter, just that it's not the only thing that matters.

TheMonster

Leeds were a team in the ascendency when they got to the CL semis, look at them now.

p.pete

Regarding the poll - who will come 4th is a different question to who will get the 4th Champions League place

Probably Everton on both counts though

p.pete

TheMonster wrote:

Leeds were a team in the ascendency when they got to the CL semis, look at them now.

Nottingham Forest won the European Cup back to back years, look at them now :rolleyes:

The Muppet

p.pete wrote:

Nottingham Forest won the European Cup back to back years, look at them now :rolleyes:

Will I? Tempted but I won't.


THE CL is where the real money is and Liverpool need to be in it for that reason alone. Players will go to the team thats playing in the CL ahead of those that are not everything else being equal.

applehunter

Coming 4th is no guarantee of CL soccer, remember Newcastle.

I'd be a traditionalist when it comes to the Euro cup. It should only be confined to the champions of each country. Having the 4th place team stretches it a bit too much.

In saying that it would be nice to see Everton in the competition and might make the Premiership more competitive next year.

p.pete

The Muppet wrote:

THE CL is where the real money is and Liverpool need to be in it for that reason alone.

United aren't in it at the moment

The Muppet

p.pete wrote:

United aren't in it at the moment

No **** Sherlock. We're concentrating on the FA Cup.

We'll be in it next year.

theCzar

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

Why?

Liverpool are very clearly a team in the ascendancy, whereas most of the big names in Europe seem to be on the way down. I believe that players are capable of looking more than one year ahead when judging who they're going to join, and many players would jump at the chance to play for a club with the history of liverpool, with our manager Rafa Benitez and with our world class players.

I'm not saying CL football doesn't matter, just that it's not the only thing that matters.

lol

meditraitor

No stats here , just a bit of faith,,,

Liverpool 4th place, no doubt,

did you's see alonso on sat,, genius

p.pete

meditraitor wrote:

No stats here , just a bit of faith,,,

Liverpool 4th place, no doubt,

Don't worry about the stats - we're not Americans (I'm not at least, of course it would be perfectly acceptable for Americans to be using this forum, I'm merely comenting on the fact that there tends to be quite a lot of stats used in American sports commentry)

theCzar

Bolton winning, they'll go 4th outright, though the blues'll have two games in hand.....

against Arsenal & Utd.

Shred

Bolton 1 Southampton 1

Liverpool will go forth tomorrow night if they win (providing Everton loose of course and they'll still have a game in hand).

eirebhoy

Can't see Bolton getting 4th spot now after failing to win one of their easier matches left. I had €20 on Bolton to be winning at half time, got €46 back. Excellent odds imo.
http://www.punterslounge.com/showpost.php?p=191337&postcount=40