ARTS at DCU or Here??????

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree that the perception of Arts is unfair. But if Moorsy is in a similar position to what I was, perhaps the following will help him.

I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life. In school, I did not know and my guidance counsellor there was pretty crap so I never figured it out while I was in school. Arts was something like my eighth choice on the first CAO application I made out. My first choice was Economics, Politics and Law at DCU which was a new course that I was told would be in the range of 400-430. I put this as my first choice and the rest were business-type courses mostly for DIT. I ended up using the change of mind form and picking Arts as a second choice as I realised I could do economics and politics in Arts if I failed to attain my first choice. As it turned out I didn't get enough for my first choice which ended up being 445 points. I got Arts and took it. I chose Economics, Politics and Philosophy with the intention of dropping Philosophy but I hated maths and was turned off economics because of it and I dropped economics for history. I then had alot of catching up to do for history as well as lots of work for politics and philosophy.

With regards to my social life, for the first semester it was horrible. I was not interested in the clubs or societies I had joined and simply couldn't wait until I got home at the end of the day. Add this to my long journey to and from UCD and it was pretty stressful indeed. I made one friend - a girl - who I basically settled on as I was sick of having no one to hang out with. This girl was pretty rotten to me (one day I asked for a lend of her notes to which she replied I could not as it was my fault for missing a lecture) and eventually I did the smart thing and stayed away from her. In the last few weeks I've made some friends but no one really close to me like I have outside UCD. I found UCD to be a cold and lonely place and the first few weeks were very difficult for me and I don't look back on them fondly.

On Tuesday, I have an exam for philosophy. How much have I studied for my exams? F*ck all. Why? Cos I just don't care. If I fail, I'll repeat and if I fail my repeats I just won't come back and part of me doesn't care at all. This is in stark contrast to last year when I made it my mission to get a good Leaving Cert and when the idea of doing badly scared the hell out of me. Now I just don't care because I have no love for the course I'm doing. My attendance for lectures was abysmal but it didn't bother me because I don't care about this course.

I can write very well when I want to and if by some miracle I do pass my exams I still don't know if I would want to return to UCD. I have been checking other options for other colleges. Ultimatey, my life is at a crossroads and doing Arts for another few years doesn't fill me with any sort of joy. I know this has been pretty long-winded but if I could do this year differently I would and I doubt I would do this course again if I could go back in time.

arbeitsscheuer

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

With regards to my social life, for the first semester it was horrible. I was not interested in the clubs or societies I had joined and simply couldn't wait until I got home at the end of the day. Add this to my long journey to and from UCD and it was pretty stressful indeed. I made one friend - a girl - who I basically settled on as I was sick of having no one to hang out with. This girl was pretty rotten to me (one day I asked for a lend of her notes to which she replied I could not as it was my fault for missing a lecture) and eventually I did the smart thing and stayed away from her. In the last few weeks I've made some friends but no one really close to me like I have outside UCD. I found UCD to be a cold and lonely place and the first few weeks were very difficult for me and I don't look back on them fondly.

On Tuesday, I have an exam for philosophy. How much have I studied for my exams? F*ck all. Why? Cos I just don't care. If I fail, I'll repeat and if I fail my repeats I just won't come back and part of me doesn't care at all. This is in stark contrast to last year when I made it my mission to get a good Leaving Cert and when the idea of doing badly scared the hell out of me. Now I just don't care because I have no love for the course I'm doing. My attendance for lectures was abysmal but it didn't bother me because I don't care about this course.

I can write very well when I want to and if by some miracle I do pass my exams I still don't know if I would want to return to UCD. I have been checking other options for other colleges. Ultimatey, my life is at a crossroads and doing Arts for another few years doesn't fill me with any sort of joy. I know this has been pretty long-winded but if I could do this year differently I would and I doubt I would do this course again if I could go back in time.

Ditto to everything in the above post - or at least, that was where I found myself a year ago. I couldn't give a toss about the place, hated it tbh, an wasn't too pushed about comin back even for the repeats last August. By some miracle I passed and thought "I'll give it a shot, maybe 2nd yr will be better". And you know what? It was. Much.

Now, I'm still gonna fail the summer exams, cos my tendency to procrastinate hasn't gone away, but at least now I want to be here, and I have a lot of ppl who I've met thru UCD that I wouldn't wanna lose touch wit. So, it's been worth it. It gets better in 2nd year, trust me. Just work hard and pass the exams (either now or in August) and worry bout the other stuff afterwards

Blut

Arts is great fun as long as you arent one of those 'weh weh weh, must do loads of essays/go to lecturers' people, you can just relax and sleep in / chill around belfield most days. Wholeheartedly recommend it!

Jonny Arson

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I agree that the perception of Arts is unfair. But if Moorsy is in a similar position to what I was, perhaps the following will help him.

I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life. In school, I did not know and my guidance counsellor there was pretty crap so I never figured it out while I was in school. Arts was something like my eighth choice on the first CAO application I made out. My first choice was Economics, Politics and Law at DCU which was a new course that I was told would be in the range of 400-430. I put this as my first choice and the rest were business-type courses mostly for DIT. I ended up using the change of mind form and picking Arts as a second choice as I realised I could do economics and politics in Arts if I failed to attain my first choice. As it turned out I didn't get enough for my first choice which ended up being 445 points. I got Arts and took it. I chose Economics, Politics and Philosophy with the intention of dropping Philosophy but I hated maths and was turned off economics because of it and I dropped economics for history. I then had alot of catching up to do for history as well as lots of work for politics and philosophy.

With regards to my social life, for the first semester it was horrible. I was not interested in the clubs or societies I had joined and simply couldn't wait until I got home at the end of the day. Add this to my long journey to and from UCD and it was pretty stressful indeed. I made one friend - a girl - who I basically settled on as I was sick of having no one to hang out with. This girl was pretty rotten to me (one day I asked for a lend of her notes to which she replied I could not as it was my fault for missing a lecture) and eventually I did the smart thing and stayed away from her. In the last few weeks I've made some friends but no one really close to me like I have outside UCD. I found UCD to be a cold and lonely place and the first few weeks were very difficult for me and I don't look back on them fondly.

On Tuesday, I have an exam for philosophy. How much have I studied for my exams? F*ck all. Why? Cos I just don't care. If I fail, I'll repeat and if I fail my repeats I just won't come back and part of me doesn't care at all. This is in stark contrast to last year when I made it my mission to get a good Leaving Cert and when the idea of doing badly scared the hell out of me. Now I just don't care because I have no love for the course I'm doing. My attendance for lectures was abysmal but it didn't bother me because I don't care about this course.

I can write very well when I want to and if by some miracle I do pass my exams I still don't know if I would want to return to UCD. I have been checking other options for other colleges. Ultimatey, my life is at a crossroads and doing Arts for another few years doesn't fill me with any sort of joy. I know this has been pretty long-winded but if I could do this year differently I would and I doubt I would do this course again if I could go back in time.

Yup ditto ditto ditto.

As a course I think Arts is fine and I stand by every word I said about the course. It doesn't deserve to be knocked. However in UCD there is are some big non-educational factors that I feel makes the course a poisoned chalice for some people.

I think all you guys know by this stage through that ''Drop Out'' thread of mine my feelings towards the sheer vast size of the course and the huge amount of unsociable people infest the course. I hate the surroundings. Lectures of 500 people or so is totally not for me. I don't want to go back next year due to the size of the course and its people but on the other hand i do want to go back as this is an incredible opportunity I have got by studying a degree out in this place. I thought i f**ked up big time in my leaving (nearly did in French and Economics) and when I scraped into the course I was over the frickin' moon that all the years of slogging doing homework paid off. I havent been pushed to study for my exams due to the non-educational factors of the course. If I pass happy days, if I fail so what. Now I do want to pass and I'm confident i will scrape 2 passes 1st time round but if i end up failing the year I have learned alot about myself from the year which will stand me in good stead in wherever destiny takes me. Its a fact that the size of the course and the college is not going to suit everyone. It has been the most lonely, soul-destroying year of my life in UCD. I have felt that I was the only one feeling this way but i know for a fact I'm not and there have been other people who like me would die for someone to take an interest in them as a person. The size of the course is by far the worst aspect to the course as a whole. A few friends of mine who doing their leaving cert this year possibly may end up doing Arts. Sadly I have had to warn them about the non-educational aspects of the course. I've done my best not to put them off going here but i have had to be honest as it would kill me to see them feeling the same way as me next year.

At the end of the day he sheer vastness of the course is not going to suit everyone. It is very easy to feel lost if you haven't come put knowing loads of people due to the fact that most people are in their groups before the year even starts and the majority of people in the course will stick with who they already know and make very little effort to communicate with new faces thus pushing people like me out to the side. There are plenty of people with whom I chat to but apart from my one school friend there was no one else who i got to know really well on a sociable level. As a whole Arts is a good course if you are motivated but unhappiness in the course can be to your detriment and that is why my advice to any 6th year would be to get talking to as many people as possible about all aspects to do with Arts (educational and non-educational) and a must is to get involved in clubs/societies even if you know alot of people or are shy. I made a big error by not embracing clubs/socs enough. I dont regret how I tried to get to know others or deal with my unhappiness, my regret there is a bad atmosphere within that course and that will turn many people off their studies thus drop out when these people could make a huge success of themselves on an educational and personal level.

Mr.Nice Guy

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Yup ditto ditto ditto.

As a course I think Arts is fine and I stand by every word I said about the course. It doesn't deserve to be knocked. However in UCD there is are some big non-educational factors that I feel makes the course a poisoned chalice for some people.

I think all you guys know by this stage through that ''Drop Out'' thread of mine my feelings towards the sheer vast size of the course and the huge amount of unsociable people infest the course. I hate the surroundings. Lectures of 500 people or so is totally not for me. I don't want to go back next year due to the size of the course and its people but on the other hand i do want to go back as this is an incredible opportunity I have got by studying a degree out in this place. I thought i f**ked up big time in my leaving (nearly did in French and Economics) and when I scraped into the course I was over the frickin' moon that all the years of slogging doing homework paid off. I havent been pushed to study for my exams due to the non-educational factors of the course. If I pass happy days, if I fail so what. Now I do want to pass and I'm confident i will scrape 2 passes 1st time round but if i end up failing the year I have learned alot about myself from the year which will stand me in good stead in wherever destiny takes me. Its a fact that the size of the course and the college is not going to suit everyone. It has been the most lonely, soul-destroying year of my life in UCD. I have felt that I was the only one feeling this way but i know for a fact I'm not and there have been other people who like me would die for someone to take an interest in them as a person. The size of the course is by far the worst aspect to the course as a whole. A few friends of mine who doing their leaving cert this year possibly may end up doing Arts. Sadly I have had to warn them about the non-educational aspects of the course. I've done my best not to put them off going here but i have had to be honest as it would kill me to see them feeling the same way as me next year.

At the end of the day he sheer vastness of the course is not going to suit everyone. It is very easy to feel lost if you haven't come put knowing loads of people due to the fact that most people are in their groups before the year even starts and the majority of people in the course will stick with who they already know and make very little effort to communicate with new faces thus pushing people like me out to the side. There are plenty of people with whom I chat to but apart from my one school friend there was no one else who i got to know really well on a sociable level. As a whole Arts is a good course if you are motivated but unhappiness in the course can be to your detriment and that is why my advice to any 6th year would be to get talking to as many people as possible about all aspects to do with Arts (educational and non-educational) and a must is to get involved in clubs/societies even if you know alot of people or are shy. I made a big error by not embracing clubs/socs enough. I dont regret how I tried to get to know others or deal with my unhappiness, my regret there is a bad atmosphere within that course and that will turn many people off their studies thus drop out when these people could make a huge success of themselves on an educational and personal level.

I don't know about you but it would seem to me that an ideal solution for helping out people like yourself and I would be to take advantage of the tutorials. When you're in a lecture with 400 people or so it's incredibly tough to meet people and make connections with them. Most of the people I would call acquaintances are people I've met in my tutorials. Tutorials are smaller and are a good way to build friendships but UCD is just so cold and unwelcoming that it can prove tough to bond with people in your tutorials as well. I would like to see tutors having a more personal role with students. I would like to see each tutor on the day of the first tutorial offer to bring the whole class out for a drink! That way, you could meet the people you're going to be spending time around all year and if you see them in lectures, you would find it easier to hang out with them.

DrIndy

Ah sure, go to Trinity - great craic, city centre location and easier to get to from the grand canal......

arbeitsscheuer

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I would like to see each tutor on the day of the first tutorial offer to bring the whole class out for a drink! That way, you could meet the people you're going to be spending time around all year and if you see them in lectures, you would find it easier to hang out with them.

Oh my god, this is such a good idea it's almost criminal.

I agree with what you said about tutorials being the best bet for meetin people in your course, lectures by contrast are a non-starter socially. But as you said, tutorials can be just as, what's the word, isolating i guess. In first year I rarely chatted to ppl in the tutorials, until the year was almost finished anyway, and it was too late.

This year I got to know a few ppl in my core tutorials, but still found it difficult. But then, I've always found it difficult to just start up a conversation wit some1, apropos of nothing.

One of the major reasons this year's been better for me is cos my best mate is now in UCD, and thru him I've got to know quite a few ppl (he's apparently much more sociable than me). So I guess this year could conceivably been just as bad as last year for me were it not for the good fortune of him comin to UCD as well.

Mr.Nice Guy

SebtheBum wrote:

Oh my god, this is such a good idea it's almost criminal.

I agree with what you said about tutorials being the best bet for meetin people in your course, lectures by contrast are a non-starter socially. But as you said, tutorials can be just as, what's the word, isolating i guess. In first year I rarely chatted to ppl in the tutorials, until the year was almost finished anyway, and it was too late.

This year I got to know a few ppl in my core tutorials, but still found it difficult. But then, I've always found it difficult to just start up a conversation wit some1, apropos of nothing.

One of the major reasons this year's been better for me is cos my best mate is now in UCD, and thru him I've got to know quite a few ppl (he's apparently much more sociable than me). So I guess this year could conceivably been just as bad as last year for me were it not for the good fortune of him comin to UCD as well.

I hear what you're saying. That's why I think students should get help from within UCD with the social aspect of the college. At the start of the year for my tutorials I talked to maybe one or two people briefly before heading on my way wandering around the college looking lost! If there was a friendly atmosphere about the place, and if the tutors encouraged us to get involved with one another, I'm sure it would be alot easier for students.

beanyb

one of my tutors brought us out for a drink. I couldnt go though and I'm not sure if many people bothered to go because it didnt seem to make much of a difference afterwards anyway. It probably wouldve been good if it had been done to replace a tutorial instead of afterwards.

Mr.Nice Guy

beanyb wrote:

one of my tutors brought us out for a drink. I couldnt go though and I'm not sure if many people bothered to go because it didnt seem to make much of a difference afterwards anyway. It probably wouldve been good if it had been done to replace a tutorial instead of afterwards.

If it replaced a tutorial it would be even better alright. For my first politics tutorial, the tutor took the group upstairs to show us where we could leave our essays for him and in the process he got a bit confused and ended up getting us all lost. It was pretty funny and me and a few others were able to have a laugh about it. It's good to look beyond the educational aspect now and again.

m1ke

In 1st yr all my tutors took the groups out for drinks (either at christmas or the end of the year). However, it's a much better idea doing it on the very first day that was suggested earlier. Although in second year you may only bump into people from tutorials occassionally, if ever again - or you may make lasting friendships.

Afterall, you only have 10 hours a week in class - all that spare time should be spent cultivating other spheres of your interest, rather than dwelling on how one limited sphere(UCD) is lacking. Either way, UCD is much more like real life(tm). Where it's all up to you how to conduct your work and social habits and it can be a real culture shock for people who want an institutionalised packaged-experience. You have to independently meet people through societies, clubs, activities, shared interests, boards.ie pissups (i've had quite a few interesting incidents from just these ), even people outside of UCD all together - preferably all, or none of these depending on your needs.

DadaKopf

Original poster: by all accounts the DCU course is excellent from what I've heard. I did politics and philosophy in UCD; the philosophy department is excellent but when I was there the politics department was only OK. I think it's being challenged by the DCU degree on offer and I know they have some excellent, critical political scholars, especially Peadar Kirby, compared with a lazier UCD department. That said, it's improved a lot recently.

But it depends exactly what you want to study. Like do you want to study economics and politics out of interest and possible job opportunities, or because you want to do marketing with a little extra stuff thrown in compared to your average B&L degree?

I dunno. As for social life, I haven't a bog what DCU is like. I found UCD life tough at first but eventually I found my niche and found some really great friends over the years. I just recently graduated from a Masters course there and just wandering around made me miss the place all over again!

Moorsy

Yes! Thats better thanks. I dont know what to do,I think thats mine and most people's problem. I think I'm gona change my first choice to B.E.S.S. in Trinity. And then DCU - E.P.L. second and ARTS third. I guess what just hurt my head was all the talk a lot of it in this thread like "arts is'nt a proper degree" and "you'll have to do a postgrad to get anywhere".

I guess for me, maybe I'm a bit insecure about my future and when I see people who are certain about want they want to do e.g.- computer science or accounting who are nearly promissed a job in that sector it seems so easy for them.

Thanks though, those last couple of messages have been really thought provoking!

Mr.Nice Guy

Moorsy wrote:

Yes! Thats better thanks. I dont know what to do,I think thats mine and most people's problem. I think I'm gona change my first choice to B.E.S.S. in Trinity. And then DCU - E.P.L. second and ARTS third. I guess what just hurt my head was all the talk a lot of it in this thread like "arts is'nt a proper degree" and "you'll have to do a postgrad to get anywhere".

I guess for me, maybe I'm a bit insecure about my future and when I see people who are certain about want they want to do e.g.- computer science or accounting who are nearly promissed a job in that sector it seems so easy for them.

Thanks though, those last couple of messages have been really thought provoking!

I wish you well anyway. Your mindset seems to be similar to what mine was.

DadaKopf

Moorsy wrote:

Yes! Thats better thanks. I dont know what to do,I think thats mine and most people's problem. I think I'm gona change my first choice to B.E.S.S. in Trinity. And then DCU - E.P.L. second and ARTS third. I guess what just hurt my head was all the talk a lot of it in this thread like "arts is'nt a proper degree" and "you'll have to do a postgrad to get anywhere".

I guess for me, maybe I'm a bit insecure about my future and when I see people who are certain about want they want to do e.g.- computer science or accounting who are nearly promissed a job in that sector it seems so easy for them.

Thanks though, those last couple of messages have been really thought provoking!

I'll put it this way: I was one of those weirdos who wanted to do arts. I figured it was more valuable to me to pursue my interests first and over the course of the degree figure out what I wanted to do career-wise. I don't think we should be rushed into making decisions about the rest of our lives so young. By the time I settled on a career, I decided to do a Master's directly related to what I want to for a living and I don't think I would have made as good a decision if I didn't have my arts degree behind me.

Especially in this day and age, people need the space and time to stand back and consider things. And have fun.

There's nothing wrong with an arts degree and you'll end up putting the same amount of time getting into your career through an arts path as you would as a solicitor or accountant or whatever. Just do what you'll be motivated by and take it from there. There's also nothing wrong with feeling insecure about your future. Just buy yourself some time, keep yourself interested and vital, and have fun!

I mean, what are you rushing into? Some crappy job that gets you trapped in some mediocre job, in debt and chained to a mortgage at 25 by accident?

Sangre

From everyone I know Arts is crap in first year and better in 2nd...how much better I don't know.

Ahh...the social stigma surrounding Arts...i loves it!

pretty*monster

I have to say that doing an Arts degree in ucd is the best decision I ever made. I'm not that pushed about if/where I end up working, what's important to me is that I just had the best year of my life.

A lot of people are complaining about the loneliness of ucd and whatnot but, and I hate to say this, it's what you make of it.
It can be big and grey and full of strangers (and that's defiantly how I saw it when I first got here) but it doesn't have to be that bad.

Get involved in a society or club. I really can't stress that enough.
I've made so many friends, gotten so many free drinks, gotten to know my lecturers as people, and had a heap of mad nights out thanks to getting involved in the Philosophy Society (best small society on campus )

Ok, and also you do learn skills from doing an arts degree. Critical thinking and all that jazz.

the jew

pretty*monster wrote:

^^^
that's only true if you thing that the only things worth anything are a career and money

isn't the whole point of going to college to make yourself more employable?

upmeath

To quote Ross O'Carroll-Kelly:
"Orts in UCD: pure focking eye candy"

m1ke

Arts is only a 3 year degree, so it's not an immediate career path. So you have to choose what you want to do after you finish the 3 years.

For instance you may want to start a career as an teacher, architect, solicitor, barrister, doctor, accountant, academic, computer scientist etc... So you have to do a postgraduate course and these can range anywhere between 1-4 years after which you may also need to do any professional exams.

To become established in any career arguably takes 10 years when you consider 4-5 years of college, professional practice or exams, searching for work, learning the basics all over again once you get into a job. The difference between having a basic arts degree or a longer basic degree doesn't count for **** imo. Infact, you're probably better off with a broad arts or science degree because, it's fun, it isn't too stressful, you're educated to the highest standard and by the time you're finished it, you've a much better idea of the world of work and what sort of career path to take.

People regularly comment that it's a useless thing to have because many people get a degree at pass level - which really limits(for a couple of years anyway) the amount of postgraduate options you can avail of.

Jonny Arson

upmeath wrote:

To quote Ross O'Carroll-Kelly:
"Orts in UCD: pure focking eye candy"

soooooooo not true!

padser

upmeath wrote:

To quote Ross O'Carroll-Kelly:
"Orts in UCD: pure focking eye candy"

great quote......bottom line arts actaully does have an upside.....to all the ppl who never got to know pppl in their class. (admittadly im not doing arts bbut) I found that getting hammered wit ppl is a great way to get to know them. Downside is you make a fool of you make a fool of yourself

vector

m1ke wrote:

...People regularly comment that it's a useless thing to have because many people get a degree at pass level - which really limits(for a couple of years anyway) the amount of postgraduate options you can avail of.

Yes and a pass degree doesn't just limit postgrad options, it also limits employment opportunities.

In these days of every joe soap having a degree a pass doesn't cut it, you need a 1H to get to the interviews (for high profile jobs anyhow)

How different things used to be

Years ago (think charles dickens) it was impressive if you could read and write, then it was impressive if you had a leaving cert, but the bar keeps being raised. Like EU harmonisation I fear it won't stop until you need a Masters to be a binman.

padser

brilliant...cos iv always been annoyed that my binmen are undereducated. it limited the conversations i can have with them regarding the meaning of life

Sangre

You read too much dilbert

pretty*monster

the jew wrote:

isn't the whole point of going to college to make yourself more employable?

Nah, that's just what the government wants.

Some of us are still wedded to the idea of learning for the sake of learning.

arbeitsscheuer

pretty*monster wrote:

Nah, that's just what the government wants.

Some of us are still wedded to the idea of learning for the sake of learning.

Cough *naive* Cough

pretty*monster

SebtheBum wrote:

Cough *naive* Cough

How so?

I'm doing an Arts degree. This will not lead to lucrative employment opportunities. If I do post-graduate work it won't add a whole lot to these opportunities. Work in academia is increasingly difficult to get.
If I'm lucky and I work hard I have a chance of getting a good job once I'm done being a filthy student if I'm unlucky otherwise I'll get some manner of **** job and never move out of my parents house. Realistically I'll find some manner of employment that enables me to pay the bills.

What part of that was naive?

arbeitsscheuer

It's naive in that it assumes that one needs to go to university to "learn for the sake of learning". IMO, this has become uneccessary. The subjects I'm truly knowledgeable on, and can honestly say I have learned purely for interest's sake and not for "educational" (i.e. career) purposes, are the ones I have studied or been active in outside of college. :cool:

I'm not gonna presume to know if anyone else feels the same way, but if I wanted to learn History purely for the sake of learning it, or indeed Politics, or indeed Philosophy, (to name all the course I suffered with last year), I would just go and f**king read up on them, and in particular from Historians/Political analysts/Philosophers who frankly know more about it than our poxy lecturers. :mad:

I'm here because I have to be. Because there's nowhere else. And because, in spite of it all, I like the people (altho it took a while admittedly). No more, no less.

It's just my opinion, and I ain't gonna apologise for it. Altho I apologise for the "naive" thing, I blame exam stress for my irritability...

blondie83

SebtheBum wrote:

It's just my opinion, and I ain't gonna apologise for it. Altho I apologise for the "naive" thing, I blame exam stress for my irritability...

I somehow just can't imagine you getting stressed Seb!