heysel rte1

SpAcEd OuT

I hope Liverpool fans are watching RTE1 right now,I thought both fans were to blame,but it seems it was all Liverpool fans chasing retreating juve fans with bars.


Opnions on this

gimmick

^^^ Not just Liverpool fans - all football fans.

Very good account of how the whole desperate tragedy happened.

Very moving to see those poor people crushed against that wall, the fear in their eyes. All for a game of football???

Badabing

Very good programe, why uefa ever picked heysel stadium as a venue is very strange it was in bits, behind one terrace there was about 100 plastic tubes tucked under a hut i mean ffs just looking for trouble.

_blank_

The Liverpool fans came out very much to blame in that program, no doubt about that.

But what on earth were UEFA thinking playing the game afterwards, that was a disgrace.

Also, the way the Juventus players were celebrating, knowing what had happened. I know Platini says he didn't know, but the Juventus 'keeper said last night that he knew in the dressing room. Disgraceful.

redspider

seansouth wrote:

The Liverpool fans came out very much to blame in that program, no doubt about that.

The Heysel disaster was indeed a disaster on many fronts. The programme
last night on RTE bought back many memories for any of us that watched
it at the time. I felt then that the backlash against English clubs
was overboard, but understandable. Afterwards, Liverpool fans were blamed,
but in many subsequent inquiries it was found out that the
"professional hooligan" or "firm hand" as they are sometimes known was
there in vast numbers from many clubs. Many of these were not Liverpool
fans of course but hailed from other clubs in England and were there to
cause trouble, even seek trouble. Liverpool fans were involved though,
Liverpool's firm members especially and of course others who got caught
up in it.

Here is an informative link that I recommed people read:

http://www.crowddynamics.com/Disasters/heysel_stadium_disaster.htm

Here is an excerpt from it:

The events prior to the match ensured that the match would prove insignificant. UEFA had decided that the stand behind one of the goals would be allocated to Liverpool supporters but that the end section of the stand be allocated for 'neutrals.' Liverpool F.C objected to UEFA about the allocation, as they would do prior to Hillsborough, but their fears were ignored. This gave the potential for the two sets of rival supporters to be in the same stand separated only by an inadequate, flimsy fence, which only consisted of chicken wire. This decision proved to be the recipe for disaster. It transpired that the 'neutral' section was filled by mostly Italians who had bought tickets from the neutral Belgium's. Due to the close proximity the Juventus supporters began to pelt the Liverpool supporters in the adjacent section with missiles. In provocation, and maybe remembering the violence they were subjected to at the previous Final in Rome, the Liverpool supporters charged towards the Juventus fans and into the neutral section. Fighting broke out and in panic the spectators not involved in the trouble started to flee away from the trouble and towards the opposite end of the enclosure. Unfortunately their escape was blocked by a brick wall, built to contain, which ran along the entirety of the parameter of the enclosure. In the resulting crush, as spectators tried to scale the wall and negotiate the drop that followed, the wall collapsed under the mounting pressure. Thirty nine people lost their lives. As with Hillsborough the poor stadium design gave no chance for the large numbers to safely evacuate. Consequently all English Clubs were banned from European competitions for 5 years, with Liverpool receiving a further 2 year ban. Nothing can excuse the actions of the Liverpool 'supporters', no matter how provoked, but the decision to allocate the tickets did prove to be a major contributory factor. As with Hillsborough, the Heysel Stadium was criticised for the decrepit and unsafe facilities and it was deemed that the Stadium was totally unsuitable to host such an occasion. The Belgium authorities were criticised for their total lack of organisation (many supporters entered the ground without having to show or surrender their tickets) and it was declared that the Heysel Stadium should not be used to stage football matches. The Heysel Stadium was then primarily used for athletic meetings until being largely rebuilt and renamed to host Euro 2000. No major inquiry was ever made into the causes of the disaster and it seems now that the causes and the circumstances have been chosen to be forgotten, only blame remains...
The Heysel Stadium Tragedy, 1985 - From the BBC Website
Taken at their most simple level, the events of Wednesday, 29 May, 1985, are as stark as they are horrifying: at the European Cup Final, the most prestigious occasion in the European football calendar, Liverpool supporters charged Juventus supporters, causing 39 deaths. The circumstances under which this dreadful event occurred - while nonetheless horrifying - reveal a far more complex set of causes, and an insight into terrace culture at the height of the football hooligan phenomenon.

Please read the full text at this link.

another excerpt:
It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army.

I also seem to remember at the time people from the Wolves firm being
arrested in the weeks after and wondering what the hell were Wolves
fans at the match.

I recorded last nights programme and in it, there can clearly be seen
some of these "firm hands" who are antagonising people over the chicken
wire, some of them wearing red t-shirts, red english shirts (the away strip),
etc. Why would a real Liverpool supporter wear an english away shirt?
The firms even went to the bother of getting kitted out in red and
singing Liverpool chants, etc.

This game was specially targeted by the firms to cause trouble, which
resulted. But even they were surprised by the disaster that unfolded.


There is no easy summation about Heysel. Clearly it has affected the
likes of Phil Neal, who seems to be particularly gutted about it and finds
it hard to deal with today, and Ronnie Whelan who remembers it vividly.
There were so many things that went wrong. It could have been a night
of trouble with perhaps injuries and no deaths. But crowd surges, as
have been seen at other even non-violent events, can lead to suffocation.
There was one at Ibrox many years ago and of course Hillsborough.

Its also hard to think what might have been. If the trouble didnt happen,
if Liverpool would have won their 5th European Cup, if they would have
remained in Europe over the next 5 years, things could have been
very different. Liverpool might have had 6 or 7 European Cup titles.

Society has changed, life has changed and football has changed and
we move on, but the disasters of Heysel and Hillsborough will remain
with Liverpool followers for many decades to come.

redspider

The Muppet

I didn't watch the Programmes last night but as red spider says anyone that watched the tragedy unfold on TV on the night will never forget what happened. There were mitigating circumstances that led to people dieing but the blame for starting the trouble lies with the Fans.


I agree it was a disgrace to go ahead with the match after what happened.I remember watching the game but TV viewers was not made aware of the seriousness of what had happened until the game was over.

_blank_

I just want to comment on my own post there.

I, myself, am not attatching blame to the fans of Liverpool, simply stating that the program itself portrayed the Liverpool fans in a bad light.

I was, probably naively, unaware that there scumbag hooligans there from other "firms". The program also failed to mention this.

I'm too young to remember the tragedy as it happened.

Ardent

It was awful to watch. I never saw the footage before, found it very harrowing.

One thing it highlighted for me is how the game, particularly in England, has changed so much for the better. It's inconceivable that anything like that could ever happen again, what with international procedures in place to curtail the movement of hooligans, the clampdown on touts and of course the modernisation of stadiums to all-seaters.

Found this article today on Hillsborough. Brings it all home.

Damien Kavanagh (from RAWK)
I noticed from the clock on the Stand to my right that it was 2:15pm. Like I said this was a little early for me. I always tended to go in the Kop at about 2:30pm coz any later and by then the crowd congestion would make it almost impossible to get into my spec in the middle. The crowd built up steadily like any other match. The singing was building up. Everything seemed fine. We’re on the march with Kenny’s Army…

When you’re in a large crowd you can’t see what might be happening just yards away from you. A big open terrace like the Kop allowed you to roam wherever you liked once you’d entered it. This Leppings Lane end was a smaller terrace, split into pens with fences that were specifically designed to keep supporters in a particular area. Many or most fans wouldn’t have realised that the area directly behind the goal here was split down the middle into two Pens and with radial fences also preventing access to the sides of the terrace, either side of the these two central pens. Bailey didn’t know this until seeing the media coverage after the disaster and it was only later that I learnt that the area that we’d been in was called Pen 4. The perimeter fence down the front was to keep fans off the pitch. Being a young lad and with grounds having looked like this since well before I was going, the wariness I’d obviously have about this set up today wasn’t there. In fairness a paying customer at any entertainment event should be able to take their safety for granted.

We were leaning backwards onto a crush barrier, like we would in the Kop. We were well used to riding the waves of the crowd surges. It’s the reverse of what happens at grounds now. These days when somebody gets excited and stands up it forces everybody behind to do the same in ripple effect if they wanna see the action. Back in those days somebody would strain forward to see the action causing a domino effect that would stop at the crush barriers. It could hurt going up against these barriers with the force of the crowd behind so I always got my back to the barriers and with plenty of people in front of me whenever I could. Being young, fit and only a little fella I could wriggle my way around the terraces.

Timings become blurred from now on as I describe what happened next. From memory I think from the police videos I later saw, that I left the pitch some time around 3:45pm.

The crowd pressure was ever increasing and the lads on the crush barrier behind me were really struggling. This was as bad as I’d ever experienced and was getting worse. It didn’t feel like a surge, more like steadily increasing overcrowding. I’d been to loads of matches when the crowd pressure had been uncomfortable and where at times you had no control over your own movement. There had been many occasions when people had fainted or were just so overwhelmed that they were pushed upwards over the heads of the crowd, then ferried down by outstretched hands to the front of the Kop for the St John’s ambulance gang to look after them – though I’d never been in that state myself.

A man immediately behind one of my shoulders who looked about 30ish to me with slightly long mousy hair and a dark blue shirt was asking us to help push him back under the strain. He was trying to get under the crush barrier... “Come on lads, help us here, push me back”. We tried to lean backwards towards him while he pushed at our backs but our movements were restricted and he couldn’t make any progress against the crowd behind him anyway. He asked us to kick the soles of his shoes – so he could maybe spring over the barrier - but it was no use, he wasn’t going anywhere.

A man immediately behind my other shoulder, again 30 something and maybe with a moustache, was in pain and couldn’t even try to help himself any more. He was wearing a wind cheater style jacket (I seem to remember white, yellow and grey markings on it). He was just pleading, “Please… please… please…”

Maybe six feet in front of me a fella said “Come on lads, let’s get this young girl out” and people tried to help. She looked maybe 12 years old or so, with dark hair. I can’t say I know what happened to her.

The singing had well stopped around me by now, with everybody here struggling. There were cries for help, cries of pain and cries to the police just a matter of yards in front of me to open the gates at the perimeter fence. The police were ignoring the requests and as I caught the eyes of one myself I made a point of shouting at him to open the gates. He just looked at me, pointed behind me and mouthed at me to get back, which of course was totally impossible. It appeared as though a gate down at the front had sprung open under the pressure but it looked to me as though the police were pushing the crowd back in.

I could tell from the crowd noise around the ground that the teams had come out and I remember thinking “Oh no, they’re gonna kick-off”. The problems behind the goal needed to be sorted out first! I couldn’t actually see which way we were kicking as my head had been pushed forward and I was facing downwards for a time. I missed the match kick-off and all of the action which by this time wasn’t a priority for me, though I knew which way we would be kicking as both teams would want to finish the match attacking the goal which their own supporters were behind.

I had no idea that Peter Beardsley had hit the crossbar until I read it in the Echo some days later. I have heard that he was worried this action had caused a further surge in the crowd but all I can say is that from where I was, things were obviously beyond that by then and to my knowledge it had neither hindered nor helped matters.

When I found out about Beardsley’s shot it really struck me and stopped me in my tracks; I’d never even thought about what had happened during the 6 minutes of play. It hit me again years later when I found out that Forest had had two corners down our end; obviously I’d never known about that either. Just think about it, I’d travelled a long way in such anticipation to see this action - that had happened right in front of me - and I’d missed it; I’d been totally unaware and even if I could have seen it, I’d lost all interest by then anyway!

In my struggling I then noticed somebody go to Bruce Grobbelaar and remonstrate with him but there still seemed to be no help coming to us. I knew I was really in trouble, in great danger, and remember thinking “I hope my mum hasn’t heard about this” because she’d only have worried. I knew my dad would be listening to the match commentary back home on the radio.

Despite the pleading with the police to open the gates nothing was being done and I knew that I was on my own here if I wanted out… and I knew that I had to get out.
How on Earth could what was happening to us behind that goal have been missed, or even worse… ignored?

I wasn’t struggling to breathe and I remember thinking “Oh God please get me out” but I stayed very calm and focussed on getting through this. I hadn’t noticed that the match had been stopped. Me and Bailey saw a couple of lads going past us over the heads down to the gate at the front. We agreed that this was the only way out but we were too restricted to make any progress. I had the use of my hands above my shoulders but a lot a people didn’t. I always had my arms up this way at the match to help me move about. My dad had always told me to know where the exit to any place was, always know the way out of any trouble, and this is in my nature anyway.

I don’t know how but Bailey got himself half way up over everybody’s heads, so then I lent my hand and helped his foot and suddenly he’d made it onto the top of the crowd. I shouted, “Get me out!” but he had no chance of helping me. He crawled over the top of the crowd to the gate down at the front. I saw him escape which was a relief. I shouted after him “Just get out Bailey, get out!”

I don’t know how much longer went by and believe that when you really need it you can sometimes find extra strength. Add that to a bit of luck that tragically a lot of other people didn’t get, and I managed to wriggle upwards, half way above the crowd. Some fella who was stuck there himself stretched out his hand “Here y’are mate!”. He helped my foot so I could drag myself upwards onto the top of the crowd. I crawled towards the gate down at the front, which was maybe approximately 20 feet or so in front of me, so it came up very fast. As I got to the gate I heard somebody shout to me, “There’s people dying here!” - I already knew.

Ardent

Part 2

I grabbed the top of the frame at the opened gate and was about to escape when a policeman aggressively grabbed hold of me with both hands at my chest stopping me. He shouted at me, pushing me back and I quote: “You [censored] [censored]!” as he stopped my progress. He wasn’t gonna let me out but there was no way I was going back in there. Despite knowing that you don’t go against bizzies if you wanna stay clear of trouble for yourself, I knew this was very different and I tried to force my way past him from my vulnerable position. It worked and as I tried to get through he dragged me and then threw me, out and down onto the shingle track around the pitch.

I stood up and was on the grass right behind the goal. It was the first time I’d ever been onto the pitch at a match. I saw a young lady crouched down at the goal netting crying and went over to comfort her. “You wanted to get onto the pitch after the game anyway didn’t you?” I said and she smiled. She wasn’t physically injured.

There were people lying on the floor with others over them trying to revive them with mouth-to-mouth being given by those who knew how to do it. Some people had been sick. I saw one man whose trousers had been soiled.

I knelt down on the pitch myself and started to cry but stopped quickly and got myself
together. I got grass stains on the knees of my jeans and so knew that the pitch must have been watered that morning. I started to look around for Bailey but was surprised that I couldn’t find him. Despite knowing loads of people who had gone to the match that day the only person I saw on the pitch who I knew was Phil from work. “Are you alright mate?” I asked and he was OK.

The Forest fans were singing “There will be no Scouse in Europe” a reference to the fact that while the UEFA ban following Heysel was soon to be over for English clubs, we were still to serve a longer ban. I shouted “[censored] Off!” at them but looking back they mustn’t have realised what was happening down our end.

I noticed that some fans were carrying the injured on advertising boards to the other end of the pitch clear from the chaos behind our goal and presumably to where they would receive medical treatment. I asked one fella to do the same with somebody who was out of it but he said, “Let’s get him breathing first.”

I walked over to the side of the pitch and ripped up an advertising board myself, getting a small cut on the fingers of my right hand. The only other physical injury I got that day – which I didn’t yet know - was a bruise on my back in the shape of a hand, you could clearly see the finger and thumb marks. This wasn’t from being struck but was evidence of the pressure in the Pen.

I walked over to one man lying on the floor who was not conscious. I’m sure he was dead - in fact I know it in my heart - but you hear of people getting revived when all seems lost. A couple of young men were standing with me, including one policeman without his helmet on. For a second or so that lasted for ages we hesitated and so I dragged this poor Reds fan onto the board myself thinking “Come on mate, you can make it”. He wasn’t tall and seemed maybe just a little older than me, with dark hair. His mouth was open and his eyes were closed over. As I dragged him his trousers came down to just over his knees showing his underpants but this didn’t matter. The young constable collected his helmet from the floor at this point and went off, leaving us to it. I got the impression he was relieved that somebody had taken over from him. He might have been going to assist somewhere else, I don’t know; I just didn’t get that impression. We carried the Reds fan as quickly as we could to the other end of the pitch, into the left corner with the others and left him for the attention of the St John’s volunteers. If I’d known how to do mouth-to-mouth I’d have done it.

There were exceptions but in the main, the people who carried the injured were those who had escaped the crush themselves. The police had obviously not been given instructions to deal with the disaster that had unfolded and I didn’t see much evidence of them acting on initiative. Like I say I know there were exceptions and I do not want to do a disservice to those police who did act to save lives. I’m just pointing out that on the whole and taken collectively, they had been blind to what was happening and when they did realise, they froze. What help they did finally provide was largely too little, too late.

After doing my bit with the advertising boards the police had formed a line across the pitch to keep us apart from the Forest fans - they were still this blind! I walked over to one policeman who was an officer, not a constable. I asked him if there was anything he wanted me to do to help. He replied no and that they were looking after everything now thanks. I left the pitch using the players’ tunnel walking past Gerald Sinstadt from the BBC. I went past the away team dressing room to my left and saw Des Walker and Lee Chapman who both looked at me and seemed uneasy doing so. I saw a payphone and took the opportunity to call my parents to let them know I was OK but didn’t have any change. Another Reds fan behind me gave me a £1 coin with no problem… thanks mate.
...

I walked around the ground back towards Leppings Lane. Some fella stopped me saying I shouldn’t pass this way as it would be too upsetting to see what was there. I told him I’d be OK but he insisted in the nicest possible way and so I left it and took a detour. While I knew what he had meant I had already seen everything and it couldn’t be any worse. I appreciated the gesture though.
...

I went the following season for a few matches on autopilot but cried at “You’ll Never Walk Alone” and quit. I sold a three quarters season ticket for buttons to a lad in work - £20 I think. I never thought I’d go back. It was overwhelming to support the Reds by now. It was too intense. I know exactly why Kenny Dalglish quit; probably our greatest ever player and a very successful manager. That would be enough reason for the esteem in which he’s held but it is the way he led us after the disaster that I love him. He’s the only player I’d go across the street for to shake hands with.
...

This is a story to outsiders, like any story we hear from around the world, but it will never be just a story to us. As much as we all wish it had never happened it is part of us, we live with it. God knows, if I could ever change just one thing, stopping it from ever having happened, then this would be it. If the Echo goes on for another 125 years they will still talk about Hillsborough being a defining moment in our history.

I’m an optimist by nature but I can honestly say that from that day the sun had never truly shone again in my life. I cannot say this now as a father but I’d have swapped myself that day in exchange for everything that happened. I’ve smiled and laughed with the best of them in the days since but it took a long time. I can now look back at the events and have them in their rightful place; really important and never to be forgotten. I have and never will miss the annual memorial service. It’s important to deal with whatever happens to you coz otherwise the bitterness eats away and you lose even more.
...

I’ve never written anything like this before. There have been better writers than me to put their account forward and people who lost more than I did. However Peter Carney of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign helped me to see that every little bit of the truth is important and so here is my eyewitness account without agenda… well except for the truth. If one day this helps just one person understand what happened better then it’s been worthwhile.

My 6-years-old son James doesn’t know it yet but he has been the final push for me to write this. I’ve been taking him to the home matches for the past year now and he loves it… the 5th generation of our family to support our team from the Kop. One day he’ll ask questions about all this and it will be so important that he knows the truth (I hope without ever knowing such horror).
...

James has made the sun shine again in a way that I just can’t describe.
I’m as rich as any man ever could be. Becky is a most beautiful princess.

RIP the 96 and those I heard about who have taken their own lives over all this. Justice for all of those who have been affected by Hillsborough, too many to name.

You’ll Never Walk Alone

RuggieBear

Christ, i remembber watching Hillborough unfold as a kid...at first i thought it was fantastic, really exciting to watch rioting fans and all that...till the commentators started saying it wasn't a riot but something was wrong....i remember watching it all in total silence with a gang of friends as it dawned on us that we were watching people dying.

wasn't into football at the time of Heysel....i just have a vague memory of thatcher on tv complaining about hooligans.

mike65

I saw the game that night my main memory is of the RTE Sport presenter (can't recall who exactly it was that night) trying to keep the programme afloat as the scenes unfolded piece by piece with comment from the studio and match commentators.

I dont remember a thing about the game.

Mike.

super_furry

There was nothing new in that documentary and it was a fair assesment of the situation. They did leave out some details such as the attacks on Liverpool fans by Roma supporters the year before, but on the whole it got it right.

Drag00n79

I thought the programme was ok. Not really sure where is was going for the last 10 minutes or so. I got the feeling it was trying to exonerate Liverpool FC quite a bit from what happened by focusing in on the delapidated stadium etc. I didn't agree with that. While I was only 12 at the time, I still feel great shame every time I see coverage of what happened that evening.

Another programme is dealing with it on Sunday night:
Heysel: Requiem for a Cup Final — BBC 2
Sunday 17th April 2005 — 21:00 to 22:30
On May 29th 1985, 39 Italian football fans died when a wall collapsed in the Heysel stadium ahead of the European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus. Despite the deaths, the match was played and broadcast all round the world. To mark the 20th anniversary, this documentary takes some of the victims, players and officials back to Heysel for the first time to confront those ghosts.
(Widescreen, Subtitles)

Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=58187
Copyright ©1999-2004 GipsyMedia Ltd.

redspider

Seansouth, I didnt mean to imply by quoting you that that was your opinion. As you correctly state, this was the impression the programme gave last night, an incorrect impression at that.

The programme last night just took it for granted that it was the "Liverpool Fans" that caused it - which is not true to say without qualifying it fully with the background. It is true to say that the "fans"/thugs/hooligans or whatever term is chosen for them were wearing red on the night and were English. Liverpool had many Irish fans, so I'm not sure if anyone from Ireland was involved or not. I'm sure no-one would own up to it anyway.

At the time, everyone saw and thought that it was Liverpool fans, and this has been burned into the minds of many people, even Liverpool players, but on deep investigation the cirumstances for trouble that night are complicated and involved hooligans that were not Liverpool fans. Not just one or two but hundreds of them. Remember that Liverpool fans who had done a lot of travelling in Europe over the years before that were well-behaved for the times that were in it. Also, there was a Juventus factor as well.

I think the programme was good to help people remember, but it was not the full analysis of the cause, and covered more or less the memories of some of the players had on the night. I think for that Italian man who was at the match and lost his 14-year old son, it was of course terrible and he firmly blames it on Liverpool fans. Hooliganism by itself does not cause deaths
in that manner, ie: a crowd crush. It takes other factors to be involved.

It is of course good to see that the game has rid itself of this form of thuggery by and large. But there are still problems. 1995 and Lansdowne
for Irl v Eng is one we all remember, which is not that long ago. And
there are still some who cause trouble, such as witnessed in Milan
and outside Juve's ground on recent nights.


The Hillsborough situation, ironically, was affected by Heysel. After Heysel, fences in front of the fans on terracing were made higher, security was made tighter and fans were shuffled from train station to football ground like cattle. A fatal decision by a Police Officer to allow a gate to be opened to prevent people from fainting and perhaps dieing, led to the deaths of nearly a hundred people in another people crush. How there was too many Liverpool fans trying
to gain entry into a stand too small to hold the numbers was another factor.


And disasters are still continuing:
2001 May 9 - Ghana, West Africa. A stampede at a packed soccer match between two of Ghana's leading teams killed at least 100 people


However, Heysel was not the same as Hillsborough. Both resulted in
unnecessary trauma, injury and death and both could have been
prevented with better organisation, planning and prevention and
avoiding mistakes.

There have been worse disasters (1964 Peru, ~360 killed) and there will
probably be bad ones again, anywhere where there are thousands of
people and where something or many things go wrong. Thousands of
bodies pushing and shoving each other unfortunately can end up in
suffocation. Prevention is the key and intelligent action required
if something does go wrong but sometimes things go wrong and crowds
cannot be controlled. I will watch the programme on BBC with interest.

Redspider

Mossy Monk

i dont remember the Heysel disaster as i was only 5 at the time but i watched the programme last night and was appalled by what i saw. i will also watch the programme on BBC2 this Sunday to see if i can gain further insight as to what happened

Hillsbrough i do remember watching. i was fascinated by what i was seeing but i soon realised what was going on and those images on tv will stay with me forever

Guy:Incognito

Slight diversion while we're on the subject of hillsborough. Any chance someone with Paypal could do me a favour. I'm looking to support the hillsborough justice group a bit and would like to order one of their wristbands here:http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/home.shtm . Only thing is they only seem to accept paypal. I'd obviously re-imburse any expense and throw in a couple of quid for the trouble, cheers.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

KdjaCL

mike65 wrote:

I dont remember a thing about the game.

I watched it as Platini was "my player" at the time, i honestly could not remember a single thing from that game.

Quite simply the game shouldnt have been played there were other circumstances but the single fact is Liverpool fans broke through the fence and directly caused the death of 39 people.


kdjac

Chucky the tree

program on bbc2 now about this.

Guy:Incognito

Does anyone have a copy of the RTE 1 documentary I could gedt hold of and copy? cheers.


Why does the guy keep calling it "Hazel"? (on bbc2)

Draupnir

thats how it should be pronounced actually. thats how Belgians say it.

Aquos76

I recorded this on dvd tonight. Will be happy to run off a few copies if anyone wants one.

redspider

The BBC documentary, a so-called requiem, seemed to concentrate on one Liverpool fan, as well as the decision -making process (or lack thereof) that went on for the decision to play the game or not as well as several Italian fan stories. The programme gave some brief snapshots of what happemed on that night. However, it was not a complete analytical documentary say of the standard of a Horizon or a Panaroma series programme, so I thought that it left many of the key questions unanswered. One key point that it raised and which is very valid is that the breaking of the wall and the release of that pressure actually probably saved perhaps scores of lives.

There is no easy answer to a crowd crush when it happens, whether through crowd trouble, such as Heysel, pure over-crowding, such as at Hillsborough, or the pushing and shoving that comes after scoring a goal, such as at Ibrox in 1970/71 (66 dead).

I found it strange that they showed Grobbelaar and the Liverpool bodyguard looking at the football part of the match again and they were discussing the penalty incident. At the time it was felt that it was clearly outside but that the referee adopted a “balancing effect” to favour Juve. He gave it to them in effect. Also, Whelan was clearly taken down later in the game for a penalty. On a footballing basis it was a match that Liverpool deserved to win. I felt that at the time. But on the human tragedy level, this was not of particular interest, and for the documentary, it should be treated totally separately.

Overall, I thought it was a poor effort by the BBC, their choice of a single Liverpool supporter was hardly representative in terms of insights. This programme did not give viewers and younger people an informed view of what happened that night. The RTE programme was better, imo.

Redspider