Doctor Who, more like Doctor Why?

CiDeRmAn

Anyone else watch this train wreck of a show?
I know it is on early so it has to appeal to the younger veiwers but surely it doesn't have to be of CBBies quality.
Watched the episode last night, I was like a man with a sore tooth and can't stop touching it, some sort of ghoulish fascination with a once great show reduced to complete crap.
The script was a cast off from some failed childrens hour story, the acting was embarrasing for all concerned, I mean the one endless fart joke?
I am sure there are plenty of 10 and 11 year old that thought it was great but really, Deary, Deary me.
Its no wonder Eccleston is bailing, this sort of stuff could ruin his career.
Muck pure and simple, I don;t think even tv3 could have done it any worse with its cheap not so special effects, oh look a midget in a pig costume,
It was pure pantomime, Look out behind you!!!
Aliens come to earth and use zippers in their foreheads?
So if you see any green, slimy and bug eye'd creatures dropping into your local Hickeys for some drapery supplies, call the cops!

Lets hope in 10 years they don't try and remake Red Dwarf.

BuffyBot

The fart jokes and zippers aside, I don't think this series is that bad so far.

mike65

I think you are missing to point somewhat writer Russell T Davis is basicly reliving his childhood by doing Dr Who. So we get flatulent aliens with zippers.

I'm not a huge fan of the self-conciously goofy humour either but thats the deal for now.

Mike.

fibbo

Gotta say iam enjoying the new series but i agree with you regarding the goofy humour. I think it would be much better if the show could get a shade or two darker. Roll on the Daleks

spooky donkey

I dident think the farting was that funny at all but I do think ecceclson is very funny I get all my laughs from him. Also I think Dr who is one of the best si/fi shows out there at the moment. I think the comedy element of the show is very important, as a child Dr who scared the living daylights out of me and it still has its dark side. I enjoy it more than BSG. Though thats better in other ways. Its good to see aliens not invade America for once.

Stark

I thought the actual invasion stuff was crap.

The stuff involving Rose's return home after 12 months missing was priceless though.

The Doctor: "Oh I can explain, I employed her as my companion"

ixoy

Now I'll admit I didn't like the flatulence element - it was too childish. I never cared much for it in 'Farscape' either. The zippers though I can live it, not least for it being a knowingly mocking nod to the original series perchance for using costumes where zippers were quite clear...

In general the humour works well. Like Stark, I enjoyed the Doctor trying to fob off an explanation for misjudging by a year. It was also good to see this actually happen for once - previously the Doctor would uproot someone and there'd be little in the way of followup after the event (Tegan I think was the sole exception). Again we see how they're trying to establish Rose as more of an idependnet person more than merely a plot element or someone to scream on cue...

The plot itself was typical enough of the show. From a niggling POV, I'd have tightened the ending there to give it more of a dramatic cliff-hanger oomph. I'd also have ommitted the "next time on.." segment which shows everyone escaped the predicaments....

As to people saying it's too farcical - I would've thought the third episode, "The Unquiet Dead", shows it's capable of being darker. And there's a few darker ones on the way - "Father's Day" being one of them (not written by RTD, who seems to go for more light hearted stuff but by Paul Cornell, whose excellent at doing the Doctor's characterisation). I welcome the difference in styles..

CiDeRmAn

spooky donkey wrote:

I dident think the farting was that funny at all but I do think ecceclson is very funny I get all my laughs from him. Also I think Dr who is one of the best si/fi shows out there at the moment. I think the comedy element of the show is very important, as a child Dr who scared the living daylights out of me and it still has its dark side. I enjoy it more than BSG. Though thats better in other ways. Its good to see aliens not invade America for once.

Oh come on!
The best sci/fi shows out there at the moment?
Not on its best day is this show any good, hell its probably done Doctor Who a disservice by being on the air at all, nope better that this show came back as a series of tv movies with decent scripts and special effects, not to mention a willing star. Its offensive, bring back Quatermass or some of the paranoid TV shows like the Prisoner, much better and relevant, not this purile muck.

CiDeRmAn

spooky donkey wrote:

I dident think the farting was that funny at all but I do think ecceclson is very funny I get all my laughs from him. Also I think Dr who is one of the best si/fi shows out there at the moment. I think the comedy element of the show is very important, as a child Dr who scared the living daylights out of me and it still has its dark side. I enjoy it more than BSG. Though thats better in other ways. Its good to see aliens not invade America for once.

Oh come on!
The best sci/fi shows out there at the moment?
Not on its best day is this show any good, hell its probably done Doctor Who a disservice by being on the air at all, nope better that this show came back as a series of tv movies with decent scripts and special effects, not to mention a willing star. Its offensive, bring back Quatermass or some of the paranoid TV shows like the Prisoner, much better and relevant, not this purile muck.
Yes and we all remember the bit in Batlestar galactica when the cylons invaded America, no wait, they didn't did they?

MisterAnarchy

I enjoy it more than BSG

Hmm Odd
Seeing as BSG has been widely hailed as one of the best Sci-Fi shows not only of 2005 but of all time and The New Doctor Who is complete and utter rubbish I find that hard to believe.
I am a Doctor Who fan but the new series is a disgrace.
Dumbed down TV for the masses.

ixoy

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Hmm Odd
Seeing as BSG has been widely hailed as one of the best Sci-Fi shows not only of 2005 but of all time and The New Doctor Who is complete and utter rubbish I find that hard to believe.

You do realise that the new series of "Doctor Who" has received quite a lot of critical acclaim, yes? I'm not comparing it to BSG, but DW has generally been well received by both new and old alike. People, you see, have different opinions to you so I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe they might prefer a show you don't like...

I am a Doctor Who fan but the new series is a disgrace. Dumbed down TV for the masses.

Well I'm curious - how is it a disgrace to the old show? The tongue-in-cheek humour has always been there, for example. There's always been farcical elements - remember Pertwee dressing up as a window cleaning lady? Now I'll admit the flatulence bit was annoying (and rememinded me too much of "Curse of the Fatal Death") but the other elements are there from the show: the Doctor's manic character, the alien invasion plot elements, the mystery, etc.

BuffyBot

I think some people are looking at the past series through rose tinted glasses..

CiDeRmAn

Well we could now enter into a long boring discussion about Doctor Who, loved it in the Tom Baker/ Peter Davidson/ Colin Baker incarnations, watched repeats of the Jon Pertwee stuff and didn't like it, it all just feels like it is a kids Sci Fi show, which it is, the thing is the 70's stuff never seemed to shy away from scaring the viewer a little bit, the new stuff is all a bit daft rather than scary, even for the 7 year old in all of us.

Blakes 7, Red Dwarf, The Prisoner are all places where British TV got it right, why they now get it so wrong is beyond me, also please tell me where this new series is critically acclaimed? The Doctor Who magazine? Radio Times? Any reviewer worth his salt wouldn't put his name to a positiver review of this tripe and I feel sorry for anyone over 12 who actually thinks it does anything but devalue british sci-fi on tv, I mean Sylvester McCoy single handedly killed the British Sci Fi scene off, no one touched the genre except for Red Dwarf which had its own following and a bunch of Childrens hour shows made domestically and in Australia. Who will ever put their money into it again after this gets canned after 2 or maybe even 1 season.
Believe me I would have been delighted to see a well made tightly scripted Doctor Who, together with gags for kids and adults alike, but it wasn't to be,

RIP British Television Sci-Fi, heres to another 18 years of American Star Trek spin-offs waving the stars and stripes for Science Fiction on the box, with their rosey outlook and why can't we all just get along mentality.

mike65

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Blakes 7, Red Dwarf, The Prisoner are all places where British TV got it right,

Hey dont forget Gerry Andersons best stuff! Not emtmion Quatermass, Doomwatch, A For Andromeda, Day of the Triffids. Actually theres quite a bit of it about down the years. The Clangers...thats another!:)

Mike.

ixoy

CiDeRmAn wrote:

the thing is the 70's stuff never seemed to shy away from scaring the viewer a little bit, the new stuff is all a bit daft rather than scary, even for the 7 year old in all of us.

And again I'll direct you to the third episode, "The Unquiet Dead", which was far more "scary" than the others. It shows the different genres the show can still do. The original certainly wasn't all scary. For every haunting moment we might have in "Pyramid of Mars", we've got greater stupidity in say "Meglos".

Blakes 7, Red Dwarf, The Prisoner are all places where British TV got it right, why they now get it so wrong is beyond me, also please tell me where this new series is critically acclaimed? The Doctor Who magazine? Radio Times?

Most of the newspapers at the time/now. The major criticism is the sometimes childish humour, sure, but they're far from reviling it. I'm still curious as to what exactly has you so angry towards the new show - can you be more specific? And don't just mention the farting please. There was a lot more to the show so far.

Any reviewer worth his salt wouldn't put his name to a positiver review of this tripe and I feel sorry for anyone over 12 who actually thinks it does anything but devalue british sci-fi on tv,

Anyone over 12, who doesn't agree with you, is somehow deluded? I'm sure the Doctor would have much to say about such lack of free thought and will..

I mean Sylvester McCoy single handedly killed the British Sci Fi scene off

I would've thought it was Michael Grade's determination to kill it by pitting it against the likes of Corrie. The final season showed just how the show could be getting back on track and heading in an interesting direction but TPTB decided to unfairly pit it against the nation's favourite show.

Who will ever put their money into it again after this gets canned after 2 or maybe even 1 season.

It's already commissioned for a second season and the viewing figures, last I looked, were very respectable. Ain't happening yet and, if you don't like it, there's a multitude of other channels to watch.

Believe me I would have been delighted to see a well made tightly scripted Doctor Who, together with gags for kids and adults alike, but it wasn't to be

I seriously think there's a case of rose-tinted glasses here. Most of the original series is nowhere near tightly-scripted: hence the endless running up and down corridors over different millennia and planets. There's of course the really well knit ones, like "City of Death" but seriously there's always been loads of extra scenes that could have been cut out, extraneous comedy set pieces or character meanderings and so on...

[qyite]RIP British Television Sci-Fi, heres to another 18 years of American Star Trek spin-offs waving the stars and stripes for Science Fiction on the box, with their rosey outlook and why can't we all just get along mentality.[/QUOTE]
Well given the decline of that ideology recently, in favour of other sci-fi shows like the darker BSG or more earth-centric Stargate franchise, I don't think you need to worry too much..

So can you tell me now, what would you do to improve the show? How would you change it besides removing the "kid" humour?

regeneration

CiDeRmAn wrote:

...also please tell me where this new series is critically acclaimed? The Doctor Who magazine? Radio Times? Any reviewer worth his salt wouldn't put his name to a positiver review of this tripe and I feel sorry for anyone over 12 who actually thinks it does anything but devalue british sci-fi on tv, I mean Sylvester McCoy single handedly killed the British Sci Fi scene off, no one touched the genre except for Red Dwarf which had its own following and a bunch of Childrens hour shows made domestically and in Australia. Who will ever put their money into it again after this gets canned after 2 or maybe even 1 season.
Believe me I would have been delighted to see a well made tightly scripted Doctor Who, together with gags for kids and adults alike, but it wasn't to be,

RIP British Television Sci-Fi, heres to another 18 years of American Star Trek spin-offs waving the stars and stripes for Science Fiction on the box, with their rosey outlook and why can't we all just get along mentality.

You do realise you seem to be tearing apart the new series on the basis on ONE episode in an otherwise impressive debut? we've had 4 episodes from 13, with one (maybe two ifyou count the pilot) episodes that play on the quirky earth-invaded-by-rubber aliens theme that the old series did. That's hardly reason to write off the new show as "tripe"... As ixoy already did, I point you towards the third episode, and it's clear the show gets more dark as it goes along...
OH and on the subject of reviews; all the major irish and english newspapers have favorably written about the new show - Irish times, sunday tribune, observer and the guardian i believe...

ahhh the rantings of internet forum nerds, hyperbole be thy shield, and restraint be thine enemy

CiDeRmAn

Well I guess there are a lot of fanboys out there, you are all more than ready to hail Doctor Who as the latest greatest thing after just one episode, maybe its therefore ok for me to have the opposing view.
As you point out time will tell if this gets any better, as to whether it will get darker, yes well perhaps, perhaps not.

As for internet nerds, I believe the very fact that we are all here reading and commenting on Doctor Who in the first place answers that one, Kettle, Pot and Black anyone?

Good to have a debate though, Yes/No? Better than we all just sitting here smiling as we are fed the next thing by the corporate suits who commision this stuff, no?

BuffyBot

Well I guess there are a lot of fanboys out there, you are all more than ready to hail Doctor Who as the latest greatest thing after just one episode, maybe its therefore ok for me to have the opposing view.

Well, we've had more than one episode, so that's something to base our opinions on. It's ok to have an opposing view, but I'm not sure what you were expecting from thne show? It's certainly no worse than the previous series.

regeneration

I dont think anyone's hailing it as the greatest show, merely that it's better than other sci-fi shows out there atm. but you ciderman were the one using the hyperbole filled polemic denouncing it as... uhhh, whatever the opposite of sliced bread is in terms of greatness (A batch loaf? A garage forecourt croissant?), and I wouldn't side yourself with fanboys as a justification for having a wee rant fanboys as we all know, aren't human.

Sarky

Sod the special effects, they should go back to a man running along the roof dragging a big sheet of tinfoil behind the actors. Now, THAT was a classy alien!

CiDeRmAn

Erm... I don't think I did side myself with the fanboys regeneration, and seeing as I started the thread I think I can form any opinion I like about the show and wait for people to agree/disagree.
I would hazard a guess that if I started a thread, Doctor Who, isn't it great! I would get the same tone of opposing views. Good, thats what this forum is for, no need to take it all so personally though.
And I still will have to disagree with the notion its better than other SciFi shows out there on mainstream tv, which ones exactly?

Not sure what I expect from tv anymore, so much of it is so... disappointing, you know what I mean?

regeneration

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Erm... I don't think I did side myself with the fanboys regeneration, and seeing as I started the thread I think I can form any opinion I like about the show and wait for people to agree/disagree.
I would hazard a guess that if I started a thread, Doctor Who, isn't it great! I would get the same tone of opposing views. Good, thats what this forum is for, no need to take it all so personally though.
And I still will have to disagree with the notion its better than other SciFi shows out there on mainstream tv, which ones exactly?

Not sure what I expect from tv anymore, so much of it is so... disappointing, you know what I mean?

I talk about Garage Forecourt Croissants and you think im taking it personally? lol. Uhhhh right :rolleyes:

No need to state the obvious though - yes we're all well aware of the nature of the forums, freedom of expression blah de blah; buuuut if you express a harshly worded negative opinion, expect a empassioned defence. next time use lots of big words and maybe some proper formatting and we'll have a jolly debate (with optional tea & jelly babies)

PS you're wrong about the series, right about that episode. Sort of. Kind of. Nearly.
*munches some batch loaf*

CiDeRmAn

Well, please excuse my tone and "formatting" but my expectations were quite high for Doctor Who, the teaser trailers of the new series made me think we could have a cracker on our hands but the first episode kicked that into touch.
I will, of course modify my opinion according to furter episodes and their quality.

And I don't think I did take it personally, in fact I think people thought I was out to slaughter their sacred cow and they took it to heart, unable to see aside through those rose tinted lenses, but then I could be wrong too.

Stark

More godawful drivel from the Slitheen tonight. The interactions between the Doctor, Rose, Rose's mother and Mickey are brilliant though. I found his total disregard for the mother's feelings toward the end totally unsettling in a good way.

Looking forward to next week, Bruno Langley yum and Daleks.

CiDeRmAn

Well the Daleks were always pretty cool, and to see them tackle stairs, looking forward to it, maybe a darker story line ahead, here's hoping.

Bard

Never really got into Dr. Who before, which was a shame. Saw bits and pieces of it here and there.

I'm glued to this series though. T'is great craic.

Stark

I liked the series so far but last night's episode "Dalek" was one of the hammiest pieces of crap I've had the misfortune of seeing in a long while. I really hope it was a once-off blip.

secret_squirrel

Stark wrote:

I liked the series so far but last night's episode "Dalek" was one of the hammiest pieces of crap I've had the misfortune of seeing in a long while. I really hope it was a once-off blip.

You're kidding right?

Best episode ever! [/comic book guy]

I thought it was absolutely brilliant - the somewhat obtrusive humour was toned down, we actually had a Dalek living up to what they should be - the most destructive race in the Dr.Who universe. You could actually believe they could wipe out the Timelords.

To see a Dalek acting intelligent, cunning and manipulative what priceless. The clever way the dalek killed all the soldiers was excellent.

Ecclestone's reaction on meeting the Dalek was top class - demonstrating was a great actor he is. Liked the hints of him ending the Timewar by destroying both races.

Special effects were well used too.

Bring on more eps like this one.

Stark

No I really thought it had potential but was ruined by hammy acting and dialogue.

we actually had a Dalek living up to what they should be - the most destructive race in the Dr.Who universe. You could actually believe they could wipe out the Timelords.

To see a Dalek acting intelligent, cunning and manipulative what priceless. The clever way the dalek killed all the soldiers was excellent.

Yes but then "It turned out that all it wanted was to be loved". "Billie Piper, it has been touched by your humanity and now it sees the error of its ways" blah blah blah blah blah

Liked the hints of him ending the Timewar by destroying both races.

A little more than just hints. The guy would not shut up about it, with his "oh woe is me" act.

There were a few good parts to the episode like:

"The mighty Dalek, defeated by a flight of stairs" (smug grin)
"Elevate"
"oh oh"

I really don't want to sit through "The secret pain of a Dalek and how a Timelord and a Dalek met and fell in love after a Timelord's Companion showed it the true meaning of Christmas" again though.

Saw it last night.
To be honest,it's no more cheesy or camp than the other series.


Am I alone in loving the intro,the music and the twirling colour?
I always liked it and love this latest popped up a bit one.

There were a few good parts to the episode like:

you mean Bruno Langley,Bruno and Bruno and uhm more Bruno...:D

regeneration

Yeah the new intro is actually very well done - the theme music is a nice mix of epic and the old theme tune...
Re: the campness; I was watching bits of jon Pertwee the other night - holy crap, if you think the new series is camp, then I guess it just shows how times/attitudes change - the early 70s stuff is bad-camp.

I couldn't disagree more Stark; that dalek episode was the best of the lot so far. I was worried for this episode simply because the dalek has become so one-dimensional and has had fun poked at it so much - between jokes about stairs and the mysterious plunger, there was a real risk that this adventure would play it too "fanboy" ish and try to pretend 20/30 years of p1ss-takes of the daleks never happened. Wrong: the daleks now seem geniunely real, dangerous, and not just silly cyphers that go "exterminate" - the last dalek in the universe is a soldier scared, worried, confused and slightly angry. Plus the rotating gun section was just plain cool

Also we finally see the Doctor dropping the cheesy mugging and quipping; he becomes out and out homicidal, exploding with the urge to kill ("you'd make a good dalek") and wipe out the daleks in the name of revenge - he even sacrifices Rose; something I didn't think I'd see the TV show do willingly. Sure the whole dalek-develops-feelings at first felt wrong and overly-cheesy, but when you think of it in context of the plot and not the boring history of the daleks (face it, they were the most famous, but the most dull of enemies - I think various producers/series purposely avoided them for that reason), it made sense and felt right.

PS - does anyone notice this recurring use of the words "Bad wolf"? It was graffeti on the tardis in "aliens in london", was the name of VanStatten's chopper in "dalek", and if you check the Dr. Who website, one of the links displays the words Bad wolf when you hover over the link. It's also the name of the until-now unnamed 12th episode. weird.