Home Schooling

Daisy03

I would question the long term benefits of home schooling children. Firstly, I believe that education should be provided by those qualified to do so. When exactly does home schooling stop? I cannot see how it can continue beyond second level education. Teachers specialise in one or two subjects for a reason. There is no conceivable way a parent can teach their child ten subjects for junior certificate. Also, what happens when the child has to make the transition to a proper school? Be it to a class of thirty students or a lecture hall in college of 200 students.

Secondly, I think there needs to be a distinction between the role of parent and educator. I absolutely loved school from primary to secondary. But there were days when I complained about teachers. This will not just stop because it's their Mum or Dad who is now their teacher. They will still get frustrated by your methods. I think I would probably have had less patience with my Mum teaching me alegbra than a school teacher and I can imagine it affecting our relationship in some way. Parents of course teach their children in everything they do but its not in a set way its in all the small things. There is a distinction between the two roles.

Finally, I think that in Ireland today there is a desire to be seen as "modern", "alternative" and "progressive". In my experience, (and I don't mean to generalise) there is competiton between parents to be seen as Mother Earth or something. This idea of "self discovery" in education seems like another way for parents to prove this. What is wrong with formal education? It may be set and rigid but I think it gives students a comprehensive set of skills. Just because you don't like a subject, doesn't mean that you can avoid it and study subjects you are good at. In life, you have to do things you may not necessarily like or be good at. Formal education lets us see our strengths but also our weaknesses and helps us to develop ways to improve on them.

cynder

iguana wrote: »

No I didn't. You keep on missing the point. That's not what actual learning is about. It isn't about being 'taught' it's about discovery. It doesn't really matter what the 'teacher' knows as long as they have the ability to help you find out and learn for yourself.



.

Thats grand, will can fire all school teachers, sit the kids at the computer and say 'go discover'. They can then learn for themselves.


Also if it doesn't really mater what the teacher knows, then really a person with no education or one with learning disabilities could home school their child. Any old joe could be a teacher, who needs to go to college to learn how to teach.

coffee_cake

grindelwald wrote: »

Thats grand, will can fire all school teachers, sit the kids at the compter and say 'go discover'. They then can then learn for themselves.

That's not even remotely what s/he said, and I'm sure you know it.

iguana

Daisy03 wrote: »

I would question the long term benefits of home schooling children.

So have you then looked into the studies on the issue and what do you think of their conclusions? Especially seeing as how so many of them directly contradict what you believe.

I'm not trying to be facetious but there are quite a few people coming on here, knowing absolutely nothing about the advantages/disadvantages with nothing but misinformed preconceived notions that studies show to be incorrect.

While there are certainly concerns when it comes to home-schooling about both the motive and ability of the parents, when it is done right the children in question tend to do better both academically and socially than their schooled peers.

I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of schools but as they currently exist the majority fail too many children. There really are some great teachers, my first class teacher was, coincidentally, first class. There was a science teacher in my secondary school who was fantastic, unfortunately I couldn't have him as a teacher. I had a temporary English teacher who was fantastic and one of my history teachers could be fantastic when she went off-curriculum. I also suspect that if they could be properly motivated and given more autonomy, an awful lot of teachers would be much, much better than they currently are. Though there are also way too many teachers who have no business in a classroom as they have no ability to teach/guide pupils.

cynder

iguana wrote: »

So have you then looked into the studies on the issue and what do you think of their conclusions? Especially seeing as how so many of them directly contradict what you believe.

I'm not trying to be facetious but there are quite a few people coming on here, knowing absolutely nothing about the advantages/disadvantages with nothing but misinformed preconceived notions that studies show to be incorrect.

While there are certainly concerns when it comes to home-schooling about both the motive and ability of the parents, when it is done right the children in question tend to do better both academically and socially than their schooled peers.

I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of schools but as they currently exist the majority fail too many children. There really are some great teachers, my first class teacher was, coincidentally, first class. There was a science teacher in my secondary school who was fantastic, unfortunately I couldn't have him as a teacher. I had a temporary English teacher who was fantastic and one of my history teachers could be fantastic when she went off-curriculum. I also suspect that if they could be properly motivated and given more autonomy, an awful lot of teachers would be much, much better than they currently are. Though there are also way too many teachers who have no business in a classroom as they have no ability to teach/guide pupils.

Can you tell me where the following studies are in relation to this statement:
Though there are also way too many teachers who have no business in a classroom as they have no ability to teach/guide pupils.

Also this one:
I also suspect that if they could be properly motivated and given more autonomy, an awful lot of teachers would be much, much better than they currently are.

Have you also looked up the horror stories in relation to home school, there are some very bad ones. Also have you looked up 'i wish i wasn't home schooled' or ones where the children are totally socially awkward or do you only go for the ones that say is brilliant, best thing ever.

No parent wants to admit they they did wrong by home schooling.

helm09

Yes, it's about discovery which also means that you need the elements required to help kids discover, which are provided for in school with the added bonus of other children their own age to help them along. I'm am not sure if a parent with several children of different ages can provide the teaching required to bring them up to the same level as school children in between housework, shopping etc.. Do the kids get the 6 hrs per day of teaching they get in school??

cynder

helm09 wrote: »

Yes, it's about discovery which also means that you need the elements required to help kids discover, which are provided for in school with the added bonus of other children their own age to help them along. I'm am not sure if a parent with several children of different ages can provide the teaching required to bring them up to the same level as school children in between housework, shopping etc.. Do the kids get the 6 hrs per day of teaching they get in school??

My nephew gets 3 at max probably less as he has to help his wheelchair bound mom:mad:. At least he can get a job as a career when he is older, he can put 2 year on his cv already.

metrovelvet

What they really need is support for parents to homeschool gifted children or to set up a school specifically for gifted children.

Klingon Hamlet

http://www.homeschool-ireland.com/position.php

Personally I think it's a very unhealthy way of educating a child. How do they build up social skills if they spend most of their time with grown adult(s)? Lunchtime and before/after-school activities, along with PE, and with class teamwork, all contribute towards a child's skills. Being locked indoors being taught by an unqualified parent doesn't sound right to me at all.

My question is: are any home-school parents qualified? I ask because there was recent furore over some teachers being allowed to teach without qualifications. At least they were following a nationally recognised and therefore practically useful/productive syllabus. But what do parents follow? Especially untrained, unobserved parents?

There is some argument for specialised teaching for "gifted" children. I believe these changes should take place in a classroom environment though. Isolation does not help giften children adjust to the ways of the world!

iguana

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

http://www.homeschool-ireland.com/position.php

Personally I think it's a very unhealthy way of educating a child. How do they build up social skills if they spend most of their time with grown adult(s)? Lunchtime and before/after-school activities, along with PE, and with class teamwork, all contribute towards a child's skills. Being locked indoors being taught by an unqualified parent doesn't sound right to me at all.

My question is: are any home-school parents qualified? I ask because there was recent furore over some teachers being allowed to teach without qualifications. At least they were following a nationally recognised and therefore practically useful/productive syllabus. But what do parents follow? Especially untrained, unobserved parents?

There is some argument for specialised teaching for "gifted" children. I believe these changes should take place in a classroom environment though. Isolation does not help giften children adjust to the ways of the world!

Have you read any of the thread or the linked articles? Home-schooled children in this part of the world generally have MORE social interaction than schooled children.

Klingon Hamlet

iguana wrote: »

Have you read any of the thread or the linked articles? Home-schooled children in this part of the world generally have MORE social interaction than schooled children.

Kids indoors with their parents socialise more than kids allowed out into the real world?


...Really?!...

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Kids indoors with their parents socialise more than kids allowed out into the real world?


...Really?!...

Who says school is the 'real world'? Its an artificially, state controlled institution.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

iguana

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Kids indoors with their parents socialise more than kids allowed out into the real world?


...Really?!...

You clearly know absolutely nothing about home schooling if that's what you think it is? Have you even read the thread? Home schooling is about increased interaction in the actual real world, not the artificial environment of school.

cynder

iguana wrote: »

Have you even read the thread? Home schooling is about increased interaction in the actual real world, not the artificial environment of school.

Well that would really depend on the parent and sometimes how much money the parent has/ and if they have the time off work.

Some parents keep their child home and minimise social interaction, others don't.

If the parent has loads of cash at hand and time off work they can travel and visit places,and join them in every club and sport that money can buy. If they don't have the money or time off work to do that they cant.


It works for some but does not work for others.



Quote:
Educating children at home has always been legal in the Republic of Ireland and the right to so do is enshrined in the constitution. Current legislation requires that those wishing to educate their children at home must register with the NEWB (National Education Welfare Board).

It is estimated that there are between 1500 and 2000 children in Ireland currently being educated at home, although the number of home assessments that have been carried out is less that 300.

End Quote : http://www.homeschool-ireland.com/ireland.php
Also it says the same on wiki.

Surely that is not in the best interest of the child some 1700 going unchecked, how can statistics be correct when some 1700 are missing. I cant even find stats on Ireland, success rates or anything really and if i did they wouldn't be accurate as up to 1700 are not accounted for.

metrovelvet

grindelwald wrote: »

Well that would really depend on the parent and sometimes how much money the parent has/ and if they have the time off work.

Some parents keep their child home and minamise social interaction, others dont.

If the parent has loads of cash at hand and time off work they can travel and visit places,and join them in every club and sport that money can buy. If they dont have the money or time off work to do that they cant.


It works for some but does not work for others.



Quote:
Educating children at home has always been legal in the Republic of Ireland and the right to so do is enshrined in the constitution. Current legislation requires that those wishing to educate their children at home must register with the NEWB (National Education Welfare Board).

It is estimated that there are between 1500 and 2000 children in Ireland currently being educated at home, although the number of home assessments that have been carried out is less that 300.

End Quote

Surley that is not in the best interst of the child some 1700 going unchecked, how can satistics be correct when some 1700 are missing.

There is a point here. I had a neighbor in NY who home schooled her kids. She was very educated herself and her husband had a good salary and worked for one of the big six. However, after they divorced she could not afford to home school them as she had to go back to work herself.

cynder

iguana wrote: »

So have you then looked into the studies on the issue and what do you think of their conclusions? Especially seeing as how so many of them directly contradict what you believe.

I'm not trying to be facetious but there are quite a few people coming on here, knowing absolutely nothing about the advantages/disadvantages with nothing but misinformed preconceived notions that studies show to be incorrect.

While there are certainly concerns when it comes to home-schooling about both the motive and ability of the parents, when it is done right the children in question tend to do better both academically and socially than their schooled peers.

.

It may seem neither do you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6389211.stm

How can the studies be accurate when thousands of children in the UK are unaccounted for. The studies are only conducted on registered and not unregistered children, which from the article is between 7,000 - 50, 000. They dont know how many kids are being taught at home. The ones who regester are probably more devoted than the ones who dont. If you spoke to the thousands that are unregisterd you would probaly find many different stories, not all good.

Truley

The thing is statistics on homeschooling don't really mean much. Even if a study showed that 90% of kids were being homeschooled for the wrong reasons or in a damaging way, it doesn't say much about the idea of home schooling itself. Or have any reflection on the way you homeschool your own children, because unlike school, every single teacher, environment and method is completely different.

There are literally hundreds of different homeschooling programmes out there, from ones based on white supremacy and fundamentalist Christianity to more conventional models like Montasorri or Waldorf. Or in the case of the vast majority in this country, the standard National Irish curriculum, only done at home.

thebullkf

up for anything wrote: »

Links to studies proving these points please. :rolleyes:
[

can i ask the same of you please:rolleyes:

Lots of home schooled children go on to 3rd level education. Brightness is not a prerequisite for going on to university.

Yes, some of them do find it difficult to go from one-on-one attention to being in a large class but then again there are children who have had this problem from Junior Infants right through the school system. More of them slip seamlessly into the system.

As for having their social growth stunted!! Most home schooled children have a far wider social network of friends, both home educated and school educated, and activities. One of the main things I have noticed when meeting home educated children is that their social skills and confidence levels are far higher than most school educated children. They also tend not to tolerate the things which school educated children have to in order to survive in a school environment such as bullying, changing yourself in order to fit in and peer pressure.

I don't know why people still have that outdated view that home education consists of a parent sitting down with a child and teaching them from the curriculum and never leaving the home either for social engagements or 'extra-curriculur' activities.

This is a link to HEN (Home Education Network). You will find most of the members will be more than happy to discuss home education with you. The plus side of home education is that it is what you want it to be and that your children will take out of it what you have put into it - if that makes any sense.

vague + opinion based .

each to their own but if like the OP you have adult literacy skills @ 6yo,then home schooling is a good idea in addition to regular schooling.
it ain't always the teachers fault.

i'm reading a lot of resentment towards schools here and previously on boards.


i think statistics would back me up that home schooled children would be less successful later in life than regular schooled

[though that depends on ones definition of success]

thebullkf

bluewolf wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Because years of demotivation really sink into a child, that's why.
And if that's what it was like in school why suppose, as a child, that uni would be any different?



To say "I don't know let's find out" would have been far more accurate than a trained professional saying "that's impossible".

I am not a parent but after a little disillusion with the current education system I'm fascinated by it. I think I would strongly consider home schooling any child I had who was "outside the norm". It's possible to supplement the education after school (if you have the time and energy ofc) but if they are strongly demotivated IN school all day every day, that can be damaging.
There are enough social networks out there specifically set up for homeschooling that children of parents who genuinely want the best education for them will do well, imo.

no disresoect but come back when you are.

thebullkf

Ayla wrote: »

I have to disagree with this, mainly b/c my schooling (in the classroom) - and what I'd imagine most students experience - is from the book. It's dictated by some central education board & doesn't necessarily go into the depth or topics of interest to the individual student. For example, in math class, we'd spend the whole time watching the teacher working equations on the chalkboard, then we'd try to reproduce the same results by doing the questions on our own. The only individual attention we'd get was if we'd stay after & ask for specific help. As someone who always struggled with math I spent many an hour in tears over my math book trying to figure it out b/c I just didn't "get it."

This is an issue that would never arise in homeschooling, b/c the parent would be able to identify the difficulty before it ever became an problem.

My husband remembers in primary school (a one-room school that he shared with a grand total of about 15 kids), he tried to get the teacher to talk about planets b/c he'd already finished the "work" for the day, but the teacher couldn't be diverted from the teaching plans & had a number of other kids to cater to.

And the examples are endless... ever wonder why students are so excited if they finally manage to get the teacher off on a tangent? Possibly, it's because - for a short time - the teacher's not just "teaching" but actually "sharing" how information can be useful & exciting.

Grindelwald, it's obvious that your homeschooling experience was negative, and you seem to blame it for a lot of your current angst, all of which is quite regrettable. However, I really don't see how a single teacher with 30-odd kids can possibly challenge & encourage each student as personally as a home-educator could.

soundslike your experience was negative.


a qualified teacher home schooling someone is better.

a parent doing it IMO is not.

thebullkf

grindelwald wrote: »

How does a parent teach a child something they dont know, they have to know it to teach it.

Are you just going to hand your child a book any say read that? or will you show examples say on a board???????? like in school!
Or will you tell them to look it up on the net, that way, are they not teaching themselves rather than you teaching them.

Why didn't your husband asks his parents about the planets when he got home?
.

+1

thebullkf

Ayla wrote: »

Yes! Well said! But maybe some people would just think that's just too "lala world" :rolleyes:

disrespectful tbh.

thebullkf

iguana wrote: »

What's with the passive aggressive sarcasm? Do you have a problem with children who know a lot about things they are interested in? Maybe because you keep on missing the point of what I'm saying in a way that must only be wilfully obtuse. There was lots more to learn about science when I went to school (quite obviously :rolleyes:) but the way it is taught, simplified to a point where it is not only extremely boring but often wrong. There was not only nothing for me to sink my teeth into and keep me interested but debate was stifled. Knowing something the teacher didn't was a fast route to getting in to trouble. Being able to do equations in my head got me into trouble, anything that was off-curriculum was forbidden but what was on the curriculum was inadequate.



No I didn't. You keep on missing the point. That's not what actual learning is about. It isn't about being 'taught' it's about discovery. It doesn't really matter what the 'teacher' knows as long as they have the ability to help you find out and learn for yourself.



Such a better option it's not even funny. I learned nothing in school that I didn't already know apart from how to coast and be bored. Past first class, school was a massive negative influence in my life. I already had everything I needed in order to learn. I had books, a library card, scientific paraphernalia and a love of learning. I was always doing projects of my own instead of school work anyway. My parents could have helped me when necessary but at that age I would rarely have needed them. One of my mother's brothers was a great influence on me with regards to science and one of my father's brothers with regards to history, both from when I was a very small child. I learned far, far more from either of them than I did from any secondary school teacher.

If I'd had access to online information of the sort we have today and hadn't had to fill too many hours doing mind-numbing busywork the teachers gave us I might have been able to negate some of the damage. But I don't know, boring someone for hours on end each day for no discernible purpose has a long-lasting impact.

you are an exception to the rule. not everyone's like you.

suck it up.

cynder

Truley wrote: »

The thing is statistics on homeschooling don't really mean much. .

Then can people stop telling us to look a the studies, yep they can pick 10 of the best of the Internet and i can pick 10 of the worst.
At least within the school education system they are getting taught, and when they come home they are learning more, they don't stop learning as soon as they walk through the door. They are sponges who pick up on everything all day every day.


Hell yeah I'm taking my daughter out of school for a week so i can take her to Egypt, she was out for 20 days last year we went to France for 3 weeks went to the cathar castles and to the roman amphitheaters, went swimming, learnt some french and tasted authentic french food, just because she is at school is doesn't mean that she cant go to different countries and explore. She took a day off school to go to kildare and go on a tv show, she goes to the zoo sometimes on weekends.

So i think the whole idea of the social life of home school kids it a heap of crap, if the parents have the money they can do that if the kids are at school or if the kids are home schooled. An unemployed family would not have the same advantages as a family on the average wage or higher wage.


If a child is unregistered goodness know what they are learning or if they are getting educated at all. It has to be regulated and assessments carried out each year to see if it is in the child's best interest to be home schooled.

cynder

iguana wrote: »

1.But in general home-schooled children in this part of the world do that far better than schooled children. They actually spend their early lives as parts of the real community rather than in the extremely unnatural school community.

2.Schools have very, very little compatibility with real life. No where else are people so segregated by age, do they have to sit and stand when told (outside of mass), is it ok to utterly humiliate a person in front of their peers. It certainly doesn't simulate community.


3.Children learn social development and interaction better outside of school, just playing with their peers and interacting with their friends, family, family friends and friends' families.

1. How do you know that when less then 300 kids are on record for home schooling and up to 1700 are not.
out of that 1700 how many are not socially awkward?
also out of the 300 how many are not socially awkward?
There are no stats on Irish kids so you cant give me an answer! its either of your own opinion or you read it somewhere, with no back up statistics.


2. It prepares them for the real world, they will go to work one day and the same can happen there. Workers get told what to do by the boss or supervisor, they do it or lose their job.

3. Same goes for children who go to school there are not there 24/7 and do have a life after school with social interactions, just playing with their peers and interacting with their friends, family, family friends and friends' families

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

I have to disagree with this, mainly b/c my schooling (in the classroom) - and what I'd imagine most students experience - is from the book. It's dictated by some central education board & doesn't necessarily go into the depth or topics of interest to the individual student. For example, in math class, we'd spend the whole time watching the teacher working equations on the chalkboard, then we'd try to reproduce the same results by doing the questions on our own. The only individual attention we'd get was if we'd stay after & ask for specific help. As someone who always struggled with math I spent many an hour in tears over my math book trying to figure it out b/c I just didn't "get it."

This is an issue that would never arise in homeschooling, b/c the parent would be able to identify the difficulty before it ever became an problem.
d.

Why did you not ask your parents for help at home? or does schooling finish when a child leaves the school gate?

metrovelvet

grindelwald wrote: »

Why did you not ask your parents for help at home? or does schooling finish when a child leaves the school gate?

Hmnn... I had no help with math at home. My father sucked at math. He could yap away in Latin but don't ask him about a quadratic equation. My mother learned completely differently to the way I learned it and though she was very good at math, she cant explain how to make toast without making it sound so complicated that you end up more confused.

So some parents cant help with all subjects.

cynder

metrovelvet wrote: »

So some parents cant help with all subjects.

Thanks

That's my point!

I'm sure 99% of the population could teach their 3 year old or 5 year old but 15 year old or17 year old?

Most parents teach their toddlers / preschoolers.

metrovelvet

grindelwald wrote: »

Thanks

That's my point!

I'm sure 99% of the population could teach their 3 year old or 5 year old but 15 year old or17 year old?

Most parents teach their toddlers / preschoolers.

Yes but homeschooling allows you to bring in tutors, other parents, etc to fill in your gaps.

cynder

metrovelvet wrote: »

Yes but homeschooling allows you to bring in tutors, other parents, etc to fill in your gaps.

Same goes for school going kids!

One can hire a tutor for a school going child who needs a little help, from 5-6 two nights a week, or can only home-school kids avail of tutors?

It comes down to money, can an unemployed family afford a tutor?

Could a family on the average wage afford a tutor?

I have no idea of the going rate.