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Home Schooling

iguana

Was reading an article today about home schooling* and am wondering if everyone else has an opinion on it. And what their experiences of school were.

I mostly hated school, I enjoyed the time I had with my friends, but I don't think it was the right learning environment for me. There were subjects that I loved such as science, but grew to hate due to uninspiring teachers. Most of the stuff I learned was by myself or with my family.

I enjoyed the 1st few years of school, but mainly because I was always best in the class. I was classified with adult literacy and math ability at 6/7. So I always did really well without trying, my teacher in 1st class was fantastic, he moved me and another boy along much faster than the rest of the class. (He was also very involved in establishing special needs classes and helping identify learning disabilities). That was great but the next year my parents moved house and I changed schools. There I ended up with a teacher who seemed to resent the fact that I wasn't trying but still got full marks at everything. She ended up being quite abusive toward me until my parents intervened.

I think that was where I started hating school, I was intensely bored, and rarely challenged or interested. I was also very rebellious and would openly disagree with teachers opinions, which was fine with the more progressive teachers who welcomed debate. But for the most part it was construed as insolence. Occasionally teachers would ask questions of the class and when I would try to answer, they would ask if anyone else could answer instead. I can see why they did this but it was hardly fair to penalise me.

Schools obviously can't cater to each child individually, but some teachers are just bad and lazy. In fact there seem to be 9 bad teachers to every good one. I don't have kids yet but when I do I'd hate to send them into that environment.

In Limerick where I come from there is a project school which has a terrific reputation, but I don't think there are enough of these. I hope to be in a financial situation where I can afford to not work when I have children and I would definetely consider teaching my children myself if that's what they wanted.

*http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,,1459735,00.html

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metrovelvet

grindelwald wrote: »

Same goes for school going kids!

One can hire a tutor for a school going child who needs a little help, from 5-6 two nights a week, or can only home-school kids avail of tutors?

It comes down to money, can an unemployed family afford a tutor?

Could a family on the average wage afford a tutor?

I have no idea of the going rate.

Yes but the homeschool one wont be bored out of their mind. That is iguana's point.

Sure it can come down to money but if there is a network of support than you can help each other out.

I could easily tutor in many advanced subjects but not others and Im sure other parents would be the same.

cynder

Academic Mentoring

Teacher student mentoring: This can be done through a formal mentoring programme run by the school or can be informal, as when a teacher takes an interest in a particular student and helps them to advance in their chosen field of expertise. Not only will this give the student a means of exploring ideas in greater depth than provided for by the school curriculum, but it gives them a sense of belonging, appreciation and self worth and a role model from which to learn other values. The teacher in question may not necessarily be one of the child’s regular teachers, but someone with a common interest.

Formal arrangements with Universities for secondary school students to work with undergraduates or staff within the university.

Source: giftedkids.ie

If someone wanted a network of support for their gifted child they can find one, all they have to do is go on to giftedkids.ie to start the ball rolling.

We all get bored at some point, that's life, its how you deal with boredom. I was lucky in my primary school there was 4th, 5th and 6th in one class so when i finished my work I listened in to 6th class. I know that's not possible with secondary school, but the above is a good idea.

What about the one who have no network of support? no friends who have degrees in certain subjects, what about the ones who do not want support and think they can do it all themselves?

Chuchoter

grindelwald wrote: »

Academic Mentoring

Teacher student mentoring: This can be done through a formal mentoring programme run by the school or can be informal, as when a teacher takes an interest in a particular student and helps them to advance in their chosen field of expertise. Not only will this give the student a means of exploring ideas in greater depth than provided for by the school curriculum, but it gives them a sense of belonging, appreciation and self worth and a role model from which to learn other values. The teacher in question may not necessarily be one of the child’s regular teachers, but someone with a common interest.

Formal arrangements with Universities for secondary school students to work with undergraduates or staff within the university.

Source: giftedkids.ie

If someone wanted a network of support for their gifted child they can find one, all they have to do is go on to giftedkids.ie to start the ball rolling.

We all get bored at some point, that's life, its how you deal with boredom. I was lucky in my primary school there was 4th, 5th and 6th in one class so when i finished my work I listened in to 6th class. I know that's not possible with secondary school, but the above is a good idea.

What about the one who have no network of support? no friends who have degrees in certain subjects, what about the ones who do not want support and think they can do it all themselves?

5th and 6th class nearly killed me. We were doing phonics and I was reading the classics. Instead I spent my time learning Japanese by myself (which I did when the rest were doing work, and got given out to for not doing the work the class was doing) , which turned into a bit of an obsession. CTYI was brilliant, but is now prohibitively expensive for most people because the grant is gone. The only real option is to provide advanced classes and make it easier to skip years, and provide, if not classes like CTYI, youth groups for gifted kids for people to just chat. Half my frustration wasn't schoolwork, but the absolute crushing loneliness of having everyone think I was a freak and no-one ever having a clue what I was saying. Thats the main advantage of CTYI, the socializing.

Ayla

Just coming back to the thread after a weekend away...

Obviously this is a very divisive issue and it doesn't seem as though the sides are going to reach any consensus at all. Regardless, the truth remains that HE is a legal right to familes who deem it in their child's best interest. There are many success (and failure) stories, just as there are with the schooling system. There is no perfect system that will cater to each child, and if parents think they can do better by HE, then fair play.

I spent yesterday out on the beach with HE families, and I've got to admit that I was impressed. Of course - as a support of HE - I wanted to see that the kids were thriving, but I think these are observations anyone would note:

1) The kids - who were aged between 2 & teens - were relaxed. They spoke openly to all the people there (kids & adults).

2) The older kids all went off exploring after lunch - no one hung back with the adults

3) The adults - who ranged in ages, experiences & nationalities - were enthusiastic. When I asked a question about what we were seeing in a rock pool, the mom I was talking to didn't know the answer, but she did point me to another parent where I could find it.

4) There is a community of HE families - the kids & adults all know one another and meet up reguarly. They have many social gatherings.

5) There are individual personalities, and there are the typical parent/child dynamics you would see in any "schooled" families.

6) It was *cold* out on the beach yesterday - but no one whined (other than my 3yr old

)

Now, it goes without saying that there are a million varieties on schooling, and what works for one may not for any other. But when my husband tells me about his days being taught Maths by a man who didn't even pass his Maths leaving cert exam, or how he was marked down in class for not using his calculator (because he could do the work without it), or when my neighbor says that her 8-yr old is doing school work that is so simplistic it's insulting....well, personally I think that system isn't in my child's best interest.

Nevyn

Please remember that civil posting is expected in this forum. Disagree and argue the point but passive aggressive, snide and personal posting has not place here.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

personally I think that system isn't in my child's best interest.

Well we will find out in 14 years, report back then;)

I know a little boy who comes in the top 2% of children in Ireland , at school they wanted to move him up a year, father said yes, mother said no. In the end he stayed with his friends and did not move up a year, and 3 years later (age 9) he is doing great, the teachers know his capabilities and give him harder work to do. Other than that he loves the xbox.

cynder

crayolastereo wrote: »

5th and 6th class nearly killed me. We were doing phonics and I was reading the classics. Instead I spent my time learning Japanese by myself (which I did when the rest were doing work, and got given out to for not doing the work the class was doing) , which turned into a bit of an obsession. CTYI was brilliant, but is now prohibitively expensive for most people because the grant is gone. The only real option is to provide advanced classes and make it easier to skip years, and provide, if not classes like CTYI, youth groups for gifted kids for people to just chat. Half my frustration wasn't schoolwork, but the absolute crushing loneliness of having everyone think I was a freak and no-one ever having a clue what I was saying. Thats the main advantage of CTYI, the socializing.

Thanks for that,

Yep i think skipping classes and providing advance classes would be ideal.

Looking at the news earlier the budget this year is going to hit everything hard. Would you yourself now do volunteer work to help others in the situation you were in? or be a mentor?

From your post you sound like a person who would be good at mentoring or helping others who are like you.

lynski

Wow what a thread!
I have not seriously considered homeschooling before now and i think i am still happy with my ET choice. However, if I did not have it, i would be further along in considering HE.
My only experience of HE or other nat schools is from life. As a child there was a protestant school in our village, very small (20 ish children) at any one time, 2 teachers and they were so smart and seemed to have such a broad education compared to us. I was always envious of them.
At the moment i live in a village near an ET, Steiner School, some HE families and several smaller nat schools, as well as a well regarded national school. I can honestly say that the children from the national school are the least polite, least confident and least social of the children i have encountered.
The HE children are so polite, engaging and responsible. I have seen them taking books from the library far in advance of their age and on such a wide range of topics.
The Steiner school children are wonderful and so creative and again once they learn to read progress so quickly to outstripping their reading age.
In general, I do not think that the current national schools system is good for a lot of children. Just because children are there does not mean they are being taught. If working as a volunteer adult literacy tutor showed me anything it is that teachers miss the struggling children if they are quiet or if they are too disruptive.
As for the 'its the real world and it is not always nice' argument, it does not cut the mustard with me; I think that children learn to compromise themselves and to 'fit-in' which is not always a good thing. following the crowd does not promote independent thought, individual growth or expression.
Children also need to learn how to learn; they do not need to be taught anything. They need to be given the mental tools to figure it out for themselves, with guidance and support.

That is not to say that school is a bad thing, just our current system is not ideal. HE is an option that used correctly could be a wonderful system for children.

Chuchoter

grindelwald wrote: »

Thanks for that,

Yep i think skipping classes and providing advance classes would be ideal.

Looking at the news earlier the budget this year is going to hit everything hard. Would you yourself now do volunteer work to help others in the situation you were in? or be a mentor?

From your post you sound like a person who would be good at mentoring or helping others who are like you.

I would love to volunteer but there is no network or programs set up outside of CTYI. To be honest I'd say CTYI will be shut down in the next 5 years. They already lost the 100k grant (O'Connell Street Christmas light budget grumble grumble). Teachers aren't even trained to recognize gifted students, so they're kind of screwed.

Nevyn

Parents usually have to foot the bill to get thier child assessed to see if they fall in the gifted bracket unless the child has been 'acting out' in school due to usually boredum and not fitting in with thier peers.

The assesment isn't cheap either, there are off site smaller programs which are run under the aspect of CYTI in the likes of Blanch IT but they are rare enough.

All a parent of a kid can do is get them to read and feed them with what they are intrested in, encourage them and keep them achieving. It is slightly easier if your kid is intrested in things which you can faclilate like programing or engineering there are programs for it which can be installed on thier pc, or if it's art oddles of supplies or as was said of Lisa in the Simpsons a musica instrument.

But it's not easy striking the right blanace so they are not over loaded but stimmulated and challenged enough and still making sure they go out and enguage in socail actives which is blood hard cos they don't fit in with thier 'peers' at least CYTI did put them in wtih other kids who were too smart for their own good and they could find peers.

cynder

crayolastereo wrote: »

I would love to volunteer but there is no network or programs set up outside of CTYI. To be honest I'd say CTYI will be shut down in the next 5 years. They already lost the 100k grant (O'Connell Street Christmas light budget grumble grumble). Teachers aren't even trained to recognize gifted students, so they're kind of screwed.

I think some teachers can pick up on gifted students (like the boy i know) others don't. It would be ideal that every teacher could recognise a gifted student.

With the budget cuts over the next 4 years, the kids are going to be losing out on a lot, the need for volunteers might arise at some point.

Ayla

lynski wrote: »

Wow what a thread!
As for the 'its the real world and it is not always nice' argument, it does not cut the mustard with me; I think that children learn to compromise themselves and to 'fit-in' which is not always a good thing. following the crowd does not promote independent thought, individual growth or expression.
Children also need to learn how to learn; they do not need to be taught anything. They need to be given the mental tools to figure it out for themselves, with guidance and support.

That is not to say that school is a bad thing, just our current system is not ideal. HE is an option that used correctly could be a wonderful system for children.

+1 - This is exactly what I've been thinking - well said!

byhookorbycrook

grindelwald wrote: »

I think some teachers can pick up on gifted students (like the boy i know) others don't. It would be ideal that every teacher could recognise a gifted student.

With the budget cuts over the next 4 years, the kids are going to be losing out on a lot, the need for volunteers might arise at some point.

I take groups of exceptionally able children (the preferred term to "gifted") as part of our learning support programme.We also run programmes such as peer tutoring, shared reading and maths,extension groups for high scorers in maths and literacy. We invested heavily in a computerized library system, where each child has their own bar-code and can change books as needed and most importantly pick books at their level,that THEY choose.

We have been involved with a fantastic pilot programme using 3D modelling software and programming tools to teach part of the primary school curriculum. It is possible to meet the needs of exceptionally able children in primary, if you have the whole staff on board and the parents behind you.

http://www.daynuv.com/?m=201009

hamlet1

i admire anybody who would consider home schooling their kids.just think though,you'd NEVER have that lovely feeling of freedom on a monday morning when the kids are gone to school and you can have a life again even if it's only for a few hours!

Ayla

hamlet1 wrote: »

i admire anybody who would consider home schooling their kids.just think though,you'd NEVER have that lovely feeling of freedom on a monday morning when the kids are gone to school and you can have a life again even if it's only for a few hours!

True, but think - you also never have the early morning rush to get everyone up, fed, dressed & off to school (never mind the inevitable forgetting-of-schoolbooks ordeal). You'd never have the school runs (my SIL has 3 afternoon runs to pick up her 3 kids). And you never have the 5 o'clock panic of getting everyone home, homework done, dinner cooked & off to bed.

There is truly a sense of freedom & flexibility with HE. Of course, there are bad days too (let's not be overly simplistic), but I think the above outweighs that Monday Morning Freedom hamlet1 mentioned.

astra2000

metrovelvet wrote: »

Hmnn... I had no help with math at home. My father sucked at math. He could yap away in Latin but don't ask him about a quadratic equation. My mother learned completely differently to the way I learned it and though she was very good at math, she cant explain how to make toast without making it sound so complicated that you end up more confused.

So some parents cant help with all subjects.

But they can, by encouraging their children to speak up in class and ask the teacher to explain again if they are having problems with something. Imho teaching has changed dramatically from when I was at school. My children are actively encouraged to let the teacher know if their is something they dont understand, they are never made to feel stupid asking questions is encouraged. Also if my child was struggling with a particular subject and I was not able to help I wouldnt hesitate to speak with the teacher.
I believe that attending a school is better than homeschooling for the majority of children but I am not against homeschooling either. However I dont believe that the majority of parents (myself included) can do a better job than a school, also regardless of homeschool kids attending lots of afterschool activities I do believe they will lose socially.

CriticalHit

Attended school for primary year 1 then my mam decided to home school me for her own reasons at the time. I come from a humble background with only my dad working earning under 30k a year.

She always asked me the entire way along was I happy did I want to continue doing it. If there's one thing I can't recommend enough it's asking your kids this question when your homeschooling them... it lets them talk about things they're not happy about and maybe you can address them.

I'm presently in my 4th year of college and doing well fortunately. I can't say home schooling got me here.. but I know the mindset it gave me. I walked in with the ability to always have my labs done or understand anything before anyone else regardless of topic purely based on the fact I was used to figuring things out myself as well as having more self motivation then a burnt out hot off the leaving cert from school student.

Now lets get down to the nitty gritty. Socially I'm probably the nicest guy you'll meet but sometimes I get these intense stomach cramps for no reason what so ever ending with me running to throw up in a bathroom. I used to get them just going to shopping centers but that's worn off completely. I can happily give presentations to my class or even larger numbers when playing guitar but some environments just make my stomach go into meltdown. I can only assume this is some sort of social nervous thing caused by sitting inside for long periods ...ermm being home schooled

People in my class tell me my presentation was the best.. lecturers tell me it was the best. I've seen lads that have come through school still shaking during a project presentation whearas I would be fine.

I've met plenty of people who have gone through school only to barely be able to maintain eye contact or be incredibly nervous in social situations so half of it is the person.. not the system they come though. There's a lad in my class who went through an all boys school and he can't even talk to a girl that he might even know a bit when he see's her out at socials.

Also... if you going to home school make sure your kids get equal time to socialise with both genders. I find it almost impossible to not friendzone any girl I meet just so I can feel comfortable talking around them. That's just a result of me having no idea around them but it's getting easier ;D

On the other hand I've led college societies, I'm top of my class and I've a pile of friends.. did home schooling melt my brain into socially retarded mush? no. But it might to some kids who aren't given the right encouragment.

Personally if I was making the choice I would not home school my kids. Why ? because I think kids should be able to get a break from you too. Sometimes school offers that many more people for you to be able to open up too to solve problems of life in your head. Home can get a bit problamatic with the thought of shame and all that kind of malarky.

Also... my mam attended all sorts of homeschooling groups with me. Personally my experiance with them was grand but the downsides were every different parent home schools for their own reasons from their own different financial backgrounds this can cause complete differences in opinion and goals.

I should mention that my mam didn't do it for some deranged religious reason or because she's some kind of hippie she was asked that all the time. It was just an interest and she followed it. She is catholic and of course got me to go along with all the catholic stuff like any catholic parent but when I got into my teens and had my own ideas she was ok with them... and left me in bed on Sundays ;D

A prevous post said something about homeschooled kids not doing so well in later life. I'm living on my own.. in my final year of college about to secure a paid masters.. literally have to sign on the dotted line and my brother who is a few years older then me and also home schooled has a masters and is now working on his phd. It's rediculous to claim that homeschooling causes people to perform badly in later life. People cause themselves to do bad in later life... they're are so many different situations and backgrounds that kids come from that it is impossible to say that homeschooling caused bad things to happen for their career.

Lastly I should mention that I sometimes tell people I was home schooled and others I don't. For my own reasons based on the feedback and wide eyes I've gotten in the past. I don't really mind but it is something that could become a stigmatism to a less socially capable child. It only really comes up with people who know me very well. I used to hate having to mention it in interviews because any woman on the panel would immediatly be interested in it for her own reasons. Tonnes of questions later and my past is dragged up for her. These days I realise it's what makes me stick out ;D

Overall... I guess I am who I am... home schooling affected me positively and negatively much the same as school has anyone else.

Orion

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