€ircom publish Call charges to 076 (VoIP)

jbkenn

Published today

http://www.eircom.ie/About/Activities/pending.pdf

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same rates as local call charges

jbkenn

Urban Weigl

While they may appear to be charged at the same rate as local calls, the way it is written by ComReg, if the following happens: local call charges go down, Eircom won't have to reduce call charges to VoIP numbers.

So there is a danger that in the future, calls to VoIP phones may be more expensive than local calls. At least that is my understanding.

WizZard

Sounds about right. Eircom are great aren't they

cgarvey

Why blame eircom.. surely that's ComReg's fault?

WizZard

True, I do think ComReg are fairly useless, but I also know that Eircom think (and I have heard this directly from people high up in Eircom) that they can tell ComReg what to do/how to do it.
Thus, Eircom are dragging their feet, pricing VoIP out of the market, and ComReg seem to accept it.

Orion

Comreg - the dog with sharp gums

When can we expect the 076 numbers to be available though? Next century? or am I being optimistic!

cgarvey

I hear you on the dragging their heels bit .. but what social obligation have they? none. Their only concern is their shareholders, as with any public company, anywhere. It sickens me as much, if not more, as you, but what else is to be expected? I hate them for it, as readers of my post will be aware, but I firmly think the blame is more at the door of ComReg (and, perhaps, the government to a lesser extent), for taking eircom's decisions lying down.

I think local call pricing for VoIP is fair (and was worried it was going to be national call pricing for a while), I think the fact that it wasn't linked to / indexed in the same way as local call charges is a ComReg failing, and not in any way eircom's (which was my point above).

.cg

WizZard

Accepted. I do feel more strongly than you that the government is at fault. Wherever or however their data is gotten about Ireland's broadband/telecoms position, it's scandalous.
We can't be called a 'developed' country when one of the largest industrial estates in the country (Sandyford) has difficulty getting wired broadband - I work there and my company was told by Eircom "Sorry, you can't get broadband".(We eventually did using a new line)

damien

Just ask yourselves where does the Buck stop ?

qui custodiet custodia

Who regulates the telco market ? ComReg. Who looks after ComReg ? Apparently not the Ombudsman.

WizZard

damien.m wrote:

qui custodiet custodia
Who looks after ComReg ?

Tu et ego

cgarvey

damien.m wrote:

Just ask yourselves where does the Buck stop ?

As with everything else, the law makers. But it's up to ComReg to do something about it if they fail to do the job for which they are formed. Yes blame lies with the Government for failing to have a check on ComReg.. but it's a government-setup organisation that's meant to have the ability to regulate a telco market... if they can't, then they should be highlighting that in their quarterly reports, not painting a false rosey picture.

.cg

aaronc

Urban Weigl wrote:

While they may appear to be charged at the same rate as local calls, the way it is written by ComReg, if the following happens: local call charges go down, Eircom won't have to reduce call charges to VoIP numbers.

So there is a danger that in the future, calls to VoIP phones may be more expensive than local calls. At least that is my understanding.

I think the plan is that the price point of 076 numbers will be reviewed within 6 months or so of the numbers going live. You may have noticed that the initial allocation of 076 is now 0766 the main reason being so that different 076x ranges could have different price points in the future. Also while pegging the rate at the Eircom local rate means it can't go down it also means it can't go up without ComReg's approval.

I think ComReg is trying to take positive steps to encourage VoIP, it could definitely be a lot worse take a look at India. Eircom also don't seem to be hampering the adoption VoIP although the proof will be whether they deliver on the 076 number implementation according to schedule (May 2005). At the end of the day most 076 calls will use Eircom's network anyway so they're probably not going to lose out a huge amount.

Aaron

d-j-k

I don't think it's fair to attack ComReg on this forum to be quite honest. They have done a huge amount to open up what was an incrediably uncompeditive monopolistic market until quite recently.

ComReg can only do what they are permitted to do under current legislation. You can be damn sure that they'd love to have teeth. It must be utterly headwrecking to have eircom frustrate every regulatory decision by taking legal action at every opportunity.

ComReg has been banging away at local loop unbundling for several years now and still there has been very little progress. The whole process now held up with a judicial review.

It seems that the lack of competence and lack of ability / interest in opening up the market lies at Leinster house and not at ComReg's offices.

ComReg needs to be able to implement really serious fines or other penalties against companies who don't comply. They should be based on % turnover so that they hurt even the big players like eircom, vodafone and O2 just in proportion to how they would impact on a smaller comapany.

Don't forget eircom's NOT a state-owned public utility anymore. They're in business to make a profit and they're entitled to do anything they like, within the law, to achieve that.

So, unless someone in government is willing to properly regulate the market or split eircom in two this scenario will never end.

Blaster99

If ComReg were really interested in moving things along why is it that they publish reports where they try to spin their own lack of progress instead of pointing out what powers they need to fix the market? If ComReg did a half-decent job of protecting the consumer, IOFFL wouldn't exist. And incidently, the profit-seeking Eircom is a lot better than the employment generating Telecom Eireann.

Anyways, that's not what this thread is about. I have no opinion on the 076 numbers. If Aaron, who's in the business, thinks it good, then it probably is good... Seems to make sense to peg them at a local call rate.

jwt

the blame lies squarely at ComReg and dotGovs feet.

If ComReg don't have the requisite powers, they need to ASK!
instead (in public) all we get is how great they are doing.

DCMNR need to recognise that the regulator is incapable of regulating eircom and has to step up to the mark.

Instead we have DCMNR, ComReg and eircom playing the blame game and batting the ball away as fast as possible.

And I am sure it is incredibly frustrating for certain ComReg individuals to be constantly thwarted by eircom legal clout, internal politiking and the scary feeling of leaving your backside hanging in the breeze everytime you attempt to do something useful.

Anyway, back on topic.

I was very suprised that eircom went for local rates, I thought at least it would be a national rate
Local rates I can live with



John

aaronc

jwt wrote:

I was very suprised that eircom went for local rates, I thought at least it would be a national rate
Local rates I can live with

Eircom actually proposed a sub-local rate for 076 numbers at one industry forum I was at! This proposal was met with resistance by other carriers since it meant that they would either make a tiny amount or even lose money for terminating 076 calls on their networks. Again the situation could be a lot worse; there were proposals for premium rate 076 number ranges!

I think the price being pegged at the local rate is a good thing. Sub-local would be a better thing, at least for everyone except carriers with inter-connect contracts with Eircom. It's also worth noting that the last ComReg VoIP discussion document mentioned the possibility that 0763 will be opened up as a sub-local rate in the future...

damien

I heard that eircom wanted Sub-local call pricing consistent with their 1891 topology, industry objected due to asymmetric networks problems and competition.