Direct Labour

JH

Hi, we are looking into building a 2,200 sq feet two storey house by direct labour. Is there anywhere we can get a good schedule of works as in when to order materials, who to hire and in what order? We have been put off by stories of costs running way over and contractors being unreliable, does anyone have any experience of this? Thanks

yop

costs running way over and contractors being unreliable, does anyone have any experience of this? Thanks

All of the above will happen on a direct labour build, guaranteed!!

pajoemccracken

The best advise I would offer is to get trades people that are recommended by word of mouth. Then go and look at there work and ask the people who they did work for are they reliable.
There are lots of websites in UK that offer advice on Selfbuild.
http://www.thehouseplanner.co.uk/selfbuild.html
You then need to costs everything in the schedule of works:
Here are some tips on cost savings:
Insurance: Are you going to get insurance? I got insurance from Hibernian for 3,000. Expensive but I could sleep at night. It also allows you to get trades [people who are not insured to work on your house for less money.
Foundations: No Pile drive or raft foundations as they cost thousands extra.
Scaffold: Rent for up to 10 weeks ,shop around. you could buy and sell later.
Roof: Simple staright A type roof is the cheapest if you get the trusses from Shannonside(Clare) or Mcmahons (fermoy). My A type cost 8,000 Euro in total whereas Dormer can cost 15,000.
Slate Roof or Tiled roof? Tiles are 40% cheaper but slate looks nicer.
Block work: Get plenty of quotes as prices vary widely.
Windows: To save money get someone like Munster Joinery have probably the cheapest windows as they are the biggest supplier in Ireland.
PaJoe

yop

Just to add what PaJoe put up.

Insurance: Are you going to get insurance? I got insurance from Hibernian for 3,000. Expensive but I could sleep at night. It also allows you to get trades [people who are not insured to work on your house for less money. - IF GOT PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE FROM FBD FOR 300 EURO. IT COVERS EVERYONE BAR THE TRADESMEN. I WILL NOT ALLOW TRADESMEN ONTO OUR SITE WITHOUT THEIR PL INSURANCE

Foundations: No Pile drive or raft foundations as they cost thousands extra. - MIHG HAVE NO CHOICE HERE UNFORTUNATELY, I HEAR THAT FOOTINGS/STRIP ARE BEEN PRICED UP NOW BY TRADESMEN AS IT IS WAY MUCH MORE WORK THAN A RAFT

Scaffold: Rent for up to 10 weeks ,shop around. you could buy and sell later. - MY MATE BOUGHT ALL HIS FOR ABOUT 4.5 K, I THINK IF YOU ARE TO RENT FOR 10 WEEKS YOU WILL PAY THAT AND HAVE NOTHING AT THE END OF IT!


Block work: Get plenty of quotes as prices vary widely. - TOTALLY AGREE HERE, THE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE ARE SHOCKING,

Windows: To save money get someone like Munster Joinery have probably the cheapest windows as they are the biggest supplier in Ireland. - BELIEVE IT OR NOT I GOT 2 CHEAPER QUOTES THAN MUNSTER, IN SAYING THAT I PREFER TO MAKE SURE THE QUALITY IS GOOD AS IT MAKES AN AWFUL DIFFERENCE, SEEN TO LADS HERE WHO PUT IN CHEAP WINDOWS AND ARE PAYING THE PRICE NOW.

Apologies about the CAPS!

Macy

JH wrote:

Hi, we are looking into building a 2,200 sq feet two storey house by direct labour. Is there anywhere we can get a good schedule of works as in when to order materials, who to hire and in what order? We have been put off by stories of costs running way over and contractors being unreliable, does anyone have any experience of this? Thanks

tbh I think if you need to ask you should re-consider the direct labour route. We went with a builder, and compared to friends that went direct labour, best decision we made. We certainly wouldn't have the time to put into it, and we wouldn't have been at this stage at anytime soon. Put it out to tender, with everything you want specified and see what comes back (extras will cost you at a later date, but tie them in at the start not much of a problem). Just my opinion, but unless you're absolutely certain of what you're doing, i personally think it's a lot of money to play around with...

kadman

I agree with Macy on this one, unless you know exactly what you are doing , or you employ a professional projects manager to overseee your build, self build can very quickly turn into a disaster.

You need to have your own professional in at the start of the design project to oversee the quality of the build, and to organise your co ordination of trades. I would recommend self build only if you are happy that you have someone professional enough to look after your interests.

A self build concept is a very steep learning curve, and unfortunately you are paying for the lesson, which can turn out costly, if things go wrong.

I'm sorry for the negative view, but self build is basically a romantic idea of building one's dream home. And I have seen a few that went pear shaped unfortunately, purely from not having good professional guidance on board from the start.

So organise well.

kadman

lomb

kadman wrote:

And I have seen a few that went pear shaped unfortunately, purely from not having good professional guidance on board from the start.

give some examples please, are u referring to shoddy buildings or cost over runs?

kadman

lomb wrote:

give some examples please, are u referring to shoddy buildings or cost over runs?

Hi Lomb,

Shoddy work ends up in remedial works and consequently cost over runs. The lack of good professional input were the major reasons for some of these mistakes, ranging from ignorance to down right incompetence. Professional expertise would have solved all of these. Professionals spend years becoming experienced at ther trade. You cant learn it from a book, and you cant beat hands on experience. A good eye for detail is whats called for.

1. Self erect timberframe.
Floor panels put on wrong way around, join in floor panel not sitting on support steel.

2 Self build block.
First floor joist put not installed to allow correct positioning of trimmer joists for stairs. Stairs could not be fitted without major reworking of ground floor block work.

3 Self build roofing.
Roof trusses were ordered to suit internal dimensions of building, plus standard cavity breakdown. Trusses arrived and fitted. Client for got to notify truss manufacture he was adding stonewal cladding to external front face. His trusses were now 300mm too narrow.Reorder trusses

4 Self build timberframe, window installation.
Timberframe was delivered and erected. Client decided to enlarge a window 4 inches. He noted two cripple stud supports on the window in question, and removed one from each side. Effecting a major structural element.

5 Self build timberframe.
Client decided to fit his own windows. Forgot to put smoke seals around the timberframe opes.

6 Self build timberframe. Self erect.
Client fitted soleplate for tf kit to an uneven slab, failed to put slate shims under studs of loadbearing panels. When floor panels were fitted , ground floor panels dipped in some areas 10-20mm.

7 Self build roofing.
Top hat trusses were ordered wrong. On site modification attempted to cut the bottom chord of all trusses.

8 Self build timberframe.
Client did not realise support steel was to go into bay window tf panels. He left them aside and installed timber, instead.

9 Self build timberframe.
Client attempts to reduce cost, installs sawmill timber into first floor level, instead of using GS and SS stress graded timber.

10. Self build timberframe.
Tf kit erected and left exposed to the elements for 6-8 weeks before being fully weather proofed.

Is that enough

kadman

Eurorunner

Foundations: No Pile drive or raft foundations as they cost thousands extra. - MIHG HAVE NO CHOICE HERE UNFORTUNATELY, I HEAR THAT FOOTINGS/STRIP ARE BEEN PRICED UP NOW BY TRADESMEN AS IT IS WAY MUCH MORE WORK THAN A RAFT

Don't mean to take this thread off topic but could someone tell me what the difference is between raft and strip (is raft deeper??) - and how would using strip make life harder for other tradesmen?

yop

"Strip foundations consist of trenches partially filled with concrete and then built up to ground level by bricks or blocks. Trenchfill foundations, on the other hand, are almost entirely filled with concrete, and while the extra depth adds to the concrete costs, it can save time and labour. Deep trenchfill foundations are indicated where the house is built next to trees.

Raft foundations consist of re-inforced slab sitting under the surface. Here the weight of the house is spread over a wide area on the ground below. This means that if any settlement occurs, it is unable to affect any one part of the above structure. Raft foundations are usually used on difficult, variable ground, such as by a river. Piled foundations will be specified where you need to dig down some way to find good load-bearing ground. Here, holes are bored through the bad ground and into the solid, and then filled with concrete. The result are 'stilits' which provide a grid on which the house can be supported. "

http://www.selfbuildland.co.uk/Self-Build-Home-Foundations.htm
http://www.selfbuildit.co.uk/foundations.htm

Eurorunner

Thanks for clearing that one up Yop.