Revenue clampdown on dodgy number plates.

Esel

ds20prefecture wrote:

Hmmm. My car was registered in 2002, but is a 72D reg.

Does that mean I need an ugly white and blue one?

AFAIR, *any* car (except ZZ etc) *registered* here in 1991 or later has to have the standard plates.

Turner

Curran wrote:

Answer this - How much:
is a speeding fine?
is a fine for breaking a red light?
is a fine for no seatbelt?
is a fine for no tax?
is a fine for no NCT?

And they are going to fine people with a fancy number plate 1,265 Euro?
SAD

Speeding fine -in court you can be fined up to E800 (first offence)
red light -same
no seatbelt -same
no tax -same
no nct -same

For plates, it is that you can be fined up to 1,265 euro.

Most judges would only fine 150-300 euro for any of the above unless you act the prick with him, then hed prob fine you full whack.

Capt'n Midnight

Curran wrote:

And they are going to fine people with a fancy number plate 1,265 Euro?
SAD

Would you rather pay the VRT again ??

I've seen scripted plates that very difficult to read at a glance compared to normal ones for a human never mind a speed camera. But I'd reckon they should also start making noises about dirty plates during winter about 1/4 of the rear plates were barely legible.

Capt'n Midnight

kbannon wrote:

looks photoshopped!

naw it's just the reflective surface / flash.

blastman

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Would you rather pay the VRT again ??

I've seen scripted plates that very difficult to read at a glance compared to normal ones for a human never mind a speed camera. But I'd reckon they should also start making noises about dirty plates during winter about 1/4 of the rear plates were barely legible.

Yeah, they might start making contractors, etc. hose down their trucks and tractors before taking them out on to the road, maybe? Because life's like that here, they always go after a fair solution. Not after the driver who's is fed up to the back teeth washing his car in winter to see it destroyed with dirt after one day's driving to and from work, surely!?

This stuff about plates is complete toss, IMO. The rules could be more flexible while still ensuring all numbers are legible.

causal

Ratchet wrote:

here is reference
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/vehicle_registration_numbers.html

Thanks for that

causal

Curran

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Would you rather pay the VRT again ??

Why would i have to pay the VRT for just having fancy number plates???
My car is irish and always has been......dont mind if they are out to get VRT from forgein cars......just think its a waste of time going out to get lads with fancy number plates.....like my plates are in italics...easy to read by human or speed camera.....and there are going to fine me up to 1265 euro for having them plates??

Silvera

ds20prefecture wrote:

Hmmm. My car was registered in 2002, but is a 72D reg.

Does that mean I need an ugly white and blue one?

'Fraid so ds20prefecture !

The regulations state that ANY vehicle registered on or after 1st January 1991 must display their reg on a 'euro' plate.

(Exceptions = ZZ plates, ZV plates, Trade Plates (gov issued anyway!), Military Vehicles and Buses (though most buses opt for euro plates)).

However, having said that, I doubt they will be too concerned with classic cars - their main targets are probably 'boy racers' and foreign-reg vehicles.

N.B. - You could always get a ZV reg for your DS and so use silver-on-black plates ?!

---

As usual the Revenue failed to be specific and state that certain vehicles are exempt from euro plates, i.e. ZV, ZZ, etc.

(For anybody who doesn't know, ZZ registrations (e.g. ZZ 10100) are temporary registrations valid for one month only. Usually issued to those exporting an unregistered vehicle from Ireland)

greglo23

the 1265 Euro fine also applies to the makers of the plates but i doubt the revenue will fine them. if they fined one or two plate manufacturers the illegal plate problem would go away very quickly.

rooferPete

What about the numbering system itself ?

I mean what half a## came up with the idea that a witness to an accident or other road offence could remember a 5 digit number ?

I would lay money on it that when the Guards ask for reg numbers the most people can remember is 00 D 3 or was it 8xxx ?

I can't even remember my own reg numbers let alone the numbers of another car, and no I'm not a blind 80 something wondering if I will get a licence renewal next year.

What I can remember is the three letters and three numbers that I had on most of the cars and vans I had before the new system came in.

The powers that be would be serving us all better if they allowed personalised plates like the UK or one plate for life like the German system (as I understand it).

Silvera

I've often thought the same thing - it must be very difficult for most people to recall a 9 digit registration (e.g. 04-D-1*****) as opposed to the old system with a maximum of 6 digits (e.g. SI 4256, ASI 321, etc etc) ??!

causal

tbh I actually like the current system compared to the old one.

I think the year and county bit (e.g. 00-D) is much easier to remember than MZH, SZS etc. etc.
Fair enough though, remembering 5 digits is one more digit than the old system.
But even if you only remember 4 of the digits - that narrows it down to ten cars

Also you can tell exactly where and when a vehicle was first registered.
(Coz Dubs like me would never buy a country car )

causal

Silvera

causal wrote:

..... remembering 5 digits is one more digit than the old system.

causal

5 digits ???

With the current system you may have to remember 9 digits ! (e.g. 00-D-123123), whereas the old system had a max of 6 digits (e.g. Dublin reg SI 2463).


I also suspect that there are studies out there that say the average person can recall a reg better if it has a roughly even mix of letters and numbers.
(i.e. our current system plates have more numbers than letters).


The UK carried out plate recognition studies, so perhaps that is why their plates (usually) have as many/more letters than numbers (e.g. current UK reg format = OY04 BEK)

Curran

IMO
I think they should be allowed have the fancys plates (in italics or something) like 04 - D - 12345
AND

We should also have customised number plates like in the UK like i seen on a golf P23 GQLF

Surely it would be easier for someone to remember it was a golf with a reg plate that read something like XXX Golf or it was a 04 D 12xxx but had fancy plates......and this would help narrow down investigations into accients and incidents

murphaph

I hate our system. It ages cars unnecessarilly. I like the german system the best. M*123 ABC where M is Munich or whatever city/county issued the plate, * is the tax and TUV (NCT) stickers and the number and letter combinations are up to the applicant if available or they can take a randomly issued combination. Impossible to tell the year of the car from the plate-perfect.

Funny story, you can't select 'special' letter combinations in germany. For example, SS, SA and various other nazi related abbreviations. In Cologne (Köln) however you get a K as your first letter. You can then select 2 more K's if you like! Somebody has registered KKK 666. You're asking for trouble with that plate mate!

Our old system (which by the way was exactly the same system used by NI as established within the Motor car Act of 1904, did you know a in a NI plate like OIL 123 the L is Fermanagh and the I is IRELAND! The O is arbitrary) ran out of combinations so we had no choice but to set up a new system.

Incidentally, Malta also ran out of numbers a few years ago. They had a Labour government who were all set to take them into the EU so the EU gave them permission to start a new system with the stars and the letter M underneath before they were even members! The Labour government lost the next election and their opposition did not take them into the EU. Maltese cars drove for years with EU plates without even being members, now that's fcuked up.

I'm glad revenue are targetting both VRT and legal plate evaders. The law's the law. Obey it. You never ever see dodgy plates in germany because the local authority gives you your plates-you can't go to a motor factors and just get a set 'made-up'. My dad owned a motor factors for years-he was warned around 1991 that he and any customers he supplied with incorrect plates would be subject to a IR£1000 fine. It's about time it was enforced. You shouldn't be able to stroll into a factors and order any old plates-I'm thinking about false plates used in bank robberies etc. here.

Curran

murphaph wrote:

You shouldn't be able to stroll into a factors and order any old plates-I'm thinking about false plates used in bank robberies etc. here.

I agree with the fact that you shouldnt be able to stroll in and get plates made there and then without showing proof!

As regards the fancy plates on souped up cars....
Lads (& ladies) will take off the fancy plates and buy the proper LEGAL plates....but wont place them on their bumpers....
Guys with bodykits, flushed boots, new paintjobs wont drill holes their new jobs to put standard plates on them...they'll put them on their back windows....
Correct me if im wrong but there is no specific place where ur number plate has to be?
And what about the new ALFA's....how are they getting away with having their number plates on the right hand side on the front (as you look at it)?

murphaph

Curran wrote:

...they'll put them on their back windows....
Correct me if im wrong but there is no specific place where ur number plate has to be?

Pretty sure there are no legal requirements for the actual position of the plate, so long as rear plates are illuminated at night and clearly visible at all times, no probs. They should go after dickheads with spots on all the time, even when their main beams are dipped. Driving lamps are all supposed to be level, only fog lights can be lower than your headlights by law (rarely enforced, sadly).

Curran

murphaph wrote:

Pretty sure there are no legal requirements for the actual position of the plate, so long as rear plates are illuminated at night and clearly visible at all times, no probs. They should go after dickheads with spots on all the time, even when their main beams are dipped. Driving lamps are all supposed to be level, only fog lights can be lower than your headlights by law (rarely enforced, sadly).

Was thinking there was no legal requirements......you have guys using NEON's to light up the plates then!

You giving out about guys that drive with fog lamps on or the guys that put on non standard massive rally style lights on their cars like below

http://harveyjoseph.net/archives/2004/12/moss_rally_ligh_1.html

murphaph

Curran wrote:

You giving out about guys that drive with fog lamps on or the guys that put on non standard massive rally style lights on their cars like below

http://harveyjoseph.net/archives/2004/12/moss_rally_ligh_1.html

No, those are actually perfectly legal as they are in-line with the vehicle headlights (so long as they switch off when on dipped beam!). I'm complaining about foglights left on all the time (when there's no fog!) and spots not mounted as per the legal requirements (as the good mini owner has done in your pic).

Curran

Ah right.....get what ya mean now!!

Yeah but you still get lads with them extra spots that arent aligned right and blind the F**K outa ya!

Anyways......thats getting off the point of the auld REG plates!

murphaph

ds20prefecture wrote:

Hmmm. My car was registered in 2002, but is a 72D reg.

Does that mean I need an ugly white and blue one?

Maybe not my friend. I found this a while back....

In the City and County of Dublin in the mid-1980s, Dublin Corporation (Licensing Authority for Dublin) issued ZV with the alphabet before it (a common way of progressing through the series) beginning with AZV-1 to AZV-999 and running right through the alphabet prefix letters as far as YZV-999 in December 1986 when the new system was introduced on January 1st 1987; (87-D-1 etc.)

However; in the early 1990s, representations by members of the Irish Veteran & Vintage Car Club Ltd., to have an "age-related" registration system for older cars was considered by the Licensing Authorities. In effect, someone who imported a 1936 car into Dublin after 1/1/87 was likely to be given the number; 36-D-1 onwards, which would look terrible on such an old car. Also, 1987 regulations meant that the actual number plate would have to be a white reflective background with black figures and letters. (also terrible looking on an old car!)

The Licensing Authority (through the Dept of Finance) finally came up with a system for imported cars over 30yrs old which would depict an age-related system. (similar to the old "Z" series which expired in 1954)

This means that all imported used vehicles over 30yrs old are issued with a "ZV" plate with 3 or 4 numbers depending upon the area in Ireland. These "ZV" numbers are issued at the Port Of Entry by the Customs & Excise office who inspect the imported vehicle's paperwork and check the vehicle physically for valuation. They forward the next "ZV" number and the vehicle's details to the Licensing Authority who then issue a registration certificate for a used car over 30yrs old.
An Irish National, resident in R.O.I., can use either this age-related system or they can use the modern system, there is a choice. However, someone importing a 1915 car might end up with "15-D-13" or similar if they lived in Dublin which does not look correct on such an old car!

The Road Tax Classification for these ZV vehicles is also rated as "Veteran or Vintage" classification, and a reduced annual fee is paid for this (because the vehicle is not used on a regular basis) This is a set fee of IR£29 per annum.

Source: http://www.asharte.freeserve.co.uk/veh_zv.htm

You may be too late if you just accepted the new system. It would be down to the actual month of registration because 2002 - 1972 = 30 exactly!

ds20prefecture

murphaph wrote:

Maybe not my friend. I found this a while back....


Source: http://www.asharte.freeserve.co.uk/veh_zv.htm

You may be too late if you just accepted the new system. It would be down to the actual month of registration because 2002 - 1972 = 30 exactly!

Thanks Murph.

I actually prefer the year - county - index format for my car which I would describe as a '72 DS20, so 72 D xxx is appropriate enough. The car is LHD, so I'm not attempting to pretend it was an original irish reg. My worry is that by using the modern numbering system, I'll be forced to use the modern colours & counties. So far so good, but if questioned I'll have a printout of that article handy just in case

Silvera

ds20prefecture,

The above article does not state that silver-on-black plates are ok on your car !

The situation is as I stated earlier -
All vehicles registered on or after 1st January 1991 must use 'euro' plates - the only exceptions being ZV, ZZ, Trade Plates, Defence Force vehicles and Buses.

Having said that, personally I would not be overly concerned with using silver-on-black plates on a classic car.

---

Plates using illegal fonts are often almost unreadable - that is why a standard font is the legal requirement - end of story.

(N.B. - Motor Factors usually supply fancy font plates for 'show use only' - hence they might not be held accountable if somebody is stopped by the Gardai or Revenue)

murphaph

Silvera wrote:

ds20prefecture,

The above article does not state that silver-on-black plates are ok on your car !

The situation is as I stated earlier -
All vehicles registered on or after 1st January 1991 must use 'euro' plates - the only exceptions being ZV, ZZ, Trade Plates, Defence Force vehicles and Buses.

Having said that, personally I would not be overly concerned with using silver-on-black plates on a classic car.

What I was pointing out is that if he could obtain a ZV registration by removing the vehicle and re-registering it here, he might be able to use silver on black. I tend to agree that if he sticks with the 72 D reg he's liable to use the correct euro plates.

Silvera wrote:

(N.B. - Motor Factors usually supply fancy font plates for 'show use only' - hence they might not be held accountable if somebody is stopped by the Gardai or Revenue)

That's not what the letter we got from revenue stated. It clearly stated we (motor factors) could be held liable for supplying non-euro plates with registration numbers on.

Silvera

murphaph wrote:

What I was pointing out is that if he could obtain a ZV registration by removing the vehicle and re-registering it here, he might be able to use silver on black. I tend to agree that if he sticks with the 72 D reg he's liable to use the correct euro plates.

Fair enough.
Obtaining a ZV reg should not be a problem - the owner of any vehicle over 30 years old (registered since 1992), which has a 'year' registration, can apply for a ZV plate.

That's not what the letter we got from revenue stated. It clearly stated we (motor factors) could be held liable for supplying non-euro plates with registration numbers on.

Perhaps Revenue are not stating the full facts ?
Most websites which sell fancy plates, state that they are for 'show use only'. Unless they just state this to try and cover themselves ?

However, having said that, I have yet to read about UK motor factors being fined for supplying fancy plates - and UK Police are more strict about reg plates?!

vector

Surely there is some nice loophole,

can Irish people not register their cars in the UK with a UK address and then be "on holiday" in Ireland, maybe driving up to northern ireland once every three months?

this would allow an irish person to avoid VRT

Besprechen

Silvera wrote:

5 digits ???

With the current system you may have to remember 9 digits ! (e.g. 00-D-123123), whereas the old system had a max of 6 digits (e.g. Dublin reg SI 2463).
K)

IMO, should've been common sense to put the number first,
eg. 1234 D 05 instead of 05 D 1234.
everyone reads from left to right and in a case of just glancing for example a hit and run driver, you might only have time to see the first few digits, there'll be a lot fewer 1234 plates than 05s to track down!

vector

Besprechen wrote:

IMO, should've been common sense to put the number first,
eg. 1234 D 05 instead of 05 D 1234.
everyone reads from left to right and in a case of just glancing for example a hit and run driver, you might only have time to see the first few digits, there'll be a lot fewer 1234 plates than 05s to track down!

Trade plates are arranged in that way, you will have seen them they are the ones with the green bg

Alun

vector wrote:

Surely there is some nice loophole,

can Irish people not register their cars in the UK with a UK address and then be "on holiday" in Ireland, maybe driving up to northern ireland once every three months?

this would allow an irish person to avoid VRT

No! If you're ordinarily resident in the Republic for tax purposes you're not allowed to drive a car that is registered in another country. Whether you have a holiday home, second home, dog kennel or whatever in NI, or any other country in the world is totally irrelevant.

The same applies all across the EU, i.e. anyone, French or othewise, ordinarily resident in France cannot drive, say, a German car in France.

The only loophole, if you can call it that, is I believe if you've just moved here, and you hava a grace period in which to register your car here. Whether you then have to pay VRT is dependant on how long you previously owned it in the other country before moving here.-

Victor

Ratchet wrote:

It's important to note that the rules regarding the special format of vehicle registration plates do not apply to vehicles that were registered prior to 1 January 1991 or to vehicles registered in the "ZV", "ZZ" or Trade Licence series.

1987-1990 vehicles will need to comply with the relevant rules in force then as will pre-1987 vehicles.